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4 changes for a better balance

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2/9/2014 9:44:43   
kosmo
Member
 

 here are a few changes which i have tought to help the balance.

mark of blood: gets a 5% buff to the helth gain at all lvls.
this change helps BMs aswell, but im mostly suggesting this to full the little gap between bh and merc/tm.

energy parassite: it gets activated whit a strike (100% primary dmg)
since the moove gets cauntered very easely, this change could prevent it from being a total waste of a turn.

assimilation: i will go for trans's suggestion here, add a support requirment (42 at max like the other support requiring skills apart smoke)
this change would hit only those builds that abuse dex or strenght whit base support, making focus a viable build again.

smoke: add this skill to the TLM's skill three.
i already suggested this a few times, now that passive are gone its very unfair that this class doesnt have a debuff.
Epic  Post #: 1
2/9/2014 10:04:22   
Ranloth
Banned


 MoB buff will overpower BHs, just like BL buff did in Delta. BHs are the last class that need a buff, seriously.

I'd be willing to go for 85% damage for Parasite, as a test. Then, if needed, 100% damage could be implemented. Basically like Assimilation.

My nerf to Assimilation isn't just Support requirement... Dumping Support requirement won't change much, apart from crippling them too much - especially 42 Support. There's a reason why I've altered my suggestion a couple of times, and explanation was given as well.

No for Smoke. Their Tech synergy is good enough, whilst Dex is awful as ever. I'd rather they got a new debuff, instead of sharing skills again - which Devs do not want. Xendran has few decent ideas for a debuff.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
2/9/2014 10:53:58   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I'm a BM myself and MoB doesn't need a buff.

Parasite and any energy skill really shouldn't deal strike damage at the same time IMO, except for static charge and that's also very iffy for me. Parasite will just become static except you can rage and get blocked on it.

No need for smoke. TLMs only have interest in dex because otherwise atom and frenzy get blocked. They need more skills that improve with dex some way or another.
Epic  Post #: 3
2/9/2014 20:09:36   
rayniedays56
Member

@trans
Actually, a buff to MoB, one being 5% on all levels, really isn't much. At max, for 37%, the HP you gain would be 93 with doing 250 damage while currently doing 250 damage gives 80. Honestly, for it to be an "OP" to MoB, we would have to see it buffed to 50% since 250 damage would give 125, which is about a third of a good FM lvl 1. Now the buff to Bloodlust in delta? That might have given 3% ONLY but it powered EACH hit, not when activated.

I say for parasite to be...better we would need to see the increase up'd a bit. Maybe 20% of current HP would significantly help the BM population while the buff to MoB wouldn't hurt.

For TLMs, like others, no to smoke. Early Delta was one of the most OP stages in ED I've seen xD I say giving maul back and including a new debuff would ge enough of a buff where we see more tlms in 1v1.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
2/9/2014 20:29:57   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yeah, BL was only buffed by 4% back then and BHs turned out to be overpowered, so it was bumped down by -2%, yielding a net 2% buff for BHs and BMs alike. We're talking about 5% here - passive or not, still can make a difference.

Also, what does HP have to do with Energy Parasite? Coming from a BM, the skill itself is okay, but the damage holds it back - hence why it's rarely being used. Even if it's difficult to get something out of the skill, the damage is also to blame - greatly.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
2/9/2014 20:46:29   
rayniedays56
Member

HP? What?

oh. Yeah...thats supposes to be EP...sowwy.


also, the passive does count. For MoB you would gain that extra % for the amount its active. For passive, the extra % was ALWAYS there


for energy parasite, yes the damage is mostly to blame, but look at it this way. I can steal 290 EP, and it costs me nothing to do so. BMs energy parasite is, lets say, a balanced skill in a very unbalanced game. Do you get what I mean?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
2/9/2014 20:52:47   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 If you find yourself just using energy parasite when your opponent has a lot of energy, particularly after battery backup, you'll get heal looped to death. If they buffed energy parasite damage to 85% or 90% (but keep the 50 damage minimum because IMO that's actually really nice and helpful in some cases), then the skill would actually be able to contend with other EP drainers.

I run level 2 MoB. that's 10% less than the MoB I used to run (level 7), and 5% is a pretty big difference. BMs don't need the buff because intimidate, reflex boost, and energy shield already provide amazing coverage. They don't cost a particularly high amount of energy either, so energy parasite can easily enable their use mid-game if you don't have enough energy. BH's don't need it because they already drain massive amounts of HP once you stack up smoke with even just basic strikes on moderate strength.

BM's could possibly afford a buff to mark of blood, but it isn't needed given they don't really deal high damage consistently. BHs don't really need it that much.
Epic  Post #: 7
2/9/2014 20:53:04   
Ranloth
Banned


 MoB also works for your ally, in 2v2, as well as Juggernaut (you vs. Juggernaut). You're forgetting that. It's two players getting the said advantage, not one.
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
2/9/2014 21:16:43   
rayniedays56
Member

You say 10% is a lot by far. Realistically speaking, it is, but...it isn't.

if you currently us a MoB and it does 22% to HP, and lets say you manage to hit 500 damage (unrealistic mainly). You would gain 110 HP. Now, at 10% more, which is 32%, you would gain 160 HP with MOB. That looks pleasing in itself, yes?


However, I'm going to use...realistic damage now.

Say you manage to hit the opponent for 300 damage, which is a decent hit these days
At 22%, that's 66 health while at 32%, it's 96 health.

already we see a diminish in hp return from 500 damage to 300 damage by 30 points.

Also remember that you won't always hit so high. Damage scaling isn't static; it's dynamic, meaning every little thing in battle changes it, like defenses, strength, buffs, debuffs, critical, rages, blocks, deflection and more. Im using MoB on a realistic scale of events, and not just using numbers over and over again. You WON'T hit 300-300-300 and gain ~300 hp. You WILL, however, hit 300, 174, 250 because of luck factors on the game.
Also, I understand they provide amazing coverage

I am NOT suggesting a buff, I am merely saying that a buff wouldn't op or hurt a BH or bm. At most, you may gain an extra 40-60 HP
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
2/9/2014 21:26:09   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Let's say most people like to run around a level 8 blood commander (for obvious reasons, since 1% for 1 more skill point and +10 EP cost really isn't worth it to me and many others), which is 30%. 5% buff would be 1/6 of the current value at what I'd like to call max efficiency (used lightly because it's arguable what's more efficient), which is when you start to really not get much benefits at all from investing stat points when comparing increased magnitude and EP cost of the skill. Buffing a skill by 1/6 is pretty large. Blood lust got buffed from 23% at max to 27% before and was nerfed back to 25%. To be fair I'll take the "max efficiency" value of back then which was 19% or 20%. Let's say 20% for nice rounding and division, and that 4% is 1/5. However, there was almost an instant nerf which made the total boost +2%, or 1/10 of the max efficiency value.

This isn't really a fair comparison but a buff really isn't needed at all anyways. Back then it was needed because all damage output values were reduced slightly at the time of the buff, and even then the buff was very minute. Buffing by a somewhat larger amount when there isn't much reason to right now has no point.
Epic  Post #: 10
2/9/2014 21:34:59   
rayniedays56
Member

Just going to point out that BL and MoB really shouldn't be compared since BL was usuable at all times whilst MoB is usable only when activated. This may seem unimportant but it makes a huge difference in comparison. I was always wondering why MoB only got a 7% increase from BL, while Battery was a significant improvement and had a much better thought out active :\ hmm well I'm ranting now.

also, buffing a skill by 1% may seem large, in retrospect when just looking at damage values, as I pointed out before in my last post. And the buff I'm looking at is really just for clarification and better balancing purposes between other classes. Not intended, but just saying it won't hurt ;)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
2/9/2014 21:46:54   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 It is actually arguable whether or not battery is significantly better. I'll say that without a doubt it's better, but I can't say that it's much better than reroute. Battery probably gives more cumulative energy since it is reusable and already gives massive amounts back in a single turn. However, it takes an entire turn to cast and is not as flexible as reroute.

When I mean flexible I mean that reroute could progressively give energy back more frequently but in smaller denominations. If I need like 30 more energy (which was 3 back then) I get hit and I have it with reroute. If I just used battery, I'll need to wait another 4 turns to use it again just for that small amount of energy, or use assim which doesn't have a much better cooldown. The thing that battery does have given its lack of flexibility and turn of casting is that it cumulatively gives more energy in general, and cannot be manipulated as easily as reroute. Back then if I didn't want my opponent to get enough energy to cast another plasma bolt or heal, all I had to do is attack with a 0 focus bot or something then use that to build up rage. Now I can't exploit weaknesses of reroute/battery backup as easily.
Epic  Post #: 12
2/10/2014 6:11:45   
kosmo
Member
 

 how is it possible to compare an active moove that costs energy and lasts for 4 turns whit a passive one that lasts for all the battle and its free.

blood commander recently got to 60% hp regain of the strenght gained, which is more or less a 10-12 % buff to the old BC hp regain;
as a merc i can say that this change has been helpfull, but not drastically game changing, so im quite sure a 5% buff to MoB wouldnt overpower the class because it isnt a big change at all.

for smoke to tlms, i really cant unerstand how they could be overpowered or compared to gamma tlms;
tlms like bms where releing on passives and after the passives to actives change they just became inaviable, no matter if they are able to win a few 2v2 out of inbalance, they just suk in 1v1, and after the matchmaking change they loose most of the times even at lvl 40.
Epic  Post #: 13
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