Match Making - From a low level perspective


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3/19/2014 14:18:20

GrandadKronik
Member

TWO COMPLAINTS

1) Match making isn't fair no matter which way you look at it. On numerous occasions I have played against people being 3-4 level difference. I know it doesn't sound like much but when you take into consideration that 4 levels means 20 stat points and 4 skill points, at pretty much any level that would make a massive difference to who's going to win that match.
EG, a level 15 playing against a level 18/19, unless they're total noobs or skip 1-2 turns, you're not going to win. Specially not when it's a tech mage who'd easily kill you in two turns without heal, 3 with...

2) This isn't as much of a problem but I just think it'd be fair that the combined lower levels in a 2v2, or the lower level in a 1v1 should go first imo. Just makes it that little bit fairer.
For example if in a 2v2, say you're 15 and your partner is 12, but on the other side they're both 15's, then it'd only be fair if the level 12 got to go first.

There has been too many occasions in which me or my partner have been 2/3/4 levels lower than those on the opposite side and one of us have died before even managing to take a turn, or taken a turn that doesn't involve having to heal, then still dieing before it went back round to our turn.

I'm not saying this ALWAYS happens, but when it's on a regular basis (E.G 4 out of 6 games) it really starts to get annoying.
If the match making system on this game was even slightly fairer, it'd be such a better game. (For example, capping the level difference to 2 in 1v1's, & maybe 3 in 2v2's but making the combined level's a 1-2 level difference)
Don't get me wrong, there's been games where in 1v1's or 2v2's my team has been the one being higher levels but I still don't find it fair for them, or even fun tbh.

I understand that it'd probably take slightly longer to find games with these changes, but overall it'd be a more fair & fun due to it being a PvP game..
I get that there's a lot of things that's already listed to change to make the game more fun or better, but imo I'd rather have these changes made before anything else.

Think about it like this, if you started playing this game for the first time, you get to level 6/7, and all of a sudden your next 3 games are against someone 3-4 levels higher, then maybe 2-3 games being around the same level, but then back to playing against level 10's, you wouldn't want to continue PvPing just because of this fact.

-End rant here-
P.S, still a great game ;D

Post #: 1

3/19/2014 14:20:26

Noobatron x3000
Member

are you including base damage increases , weapon stats , skills that improve with level, armour in the advantage?

Post #: 2

3/19/2014 14:27:23

GrandadKronik
Member

Even without taking that into account, a 3-4 level difference imo is what makes more of an advantage (15-20 stats + 3-4 skills) does make a BIG difference.
But as you said, if you include the fact they'd have more stats on weapons, more flat hp, energy, damage & armour before taking skills & stats, that's an even BIGGER advantage which wouldn't matter 'as' much if it was only a 2 level difference.

This is just coming from two people who have played this game now for a couple of months and have experienced that 2 levels aren't so bad.. it's still fun, it's still pretty fair but it's just when you constantly play against those people who have 3-4 levels on you.

Post #: 3

3/19/2014 14:31:02

Noobatron x3000
Member

I agree with u completely it wont change though to many on the forum like a game that repels new players sadly.

Post #: 4

3/19/2014 15:06:03

GrandadKronik
Member

Yeah totally.. I wouldn't mind if there was some way the lower levels stood a chance when things like this occur but they just don't.
Well, not unless the person you're against doesn't know how to spec but even then, 4 levels higher.....

Post #: 5

3/19/2014 15:10:21

Noobatron x3000
Member

it can get much worse 1v1 is up to 5 levels 2v2 is up to 6 levels (combined level)

seriously if id had a few of the hours ive had nowadays playing the game when I first began matchmaking wise, it would of been the first and last hour I played of ED

< Message edited by Noobatron x3000 -- 3/19/2014 15:11:36 >

Post #: 6

3/19/2014 15:25:00

Xendran
Member

Wait, people attempt to 1v1 before 40?
I feel sorry for them.

Epic

Post #: 7

3/19/2014 15:29:38

edwardvulture
Member

Actually they lowered the range so that only 38+ can fight level 40's in one on one.

The thing is they have to change balance so that different build have a bigger advantage in battles than levels.

Post #: 8

3/19/2014 15:31:30

GrandadKronik
Member

Aha totally, before Mark of Blood was a skill and not a passive.

& Yeah they do (quests, and just for the hell of it)
& even if you take 1v1 out of the PvP game, it's still not fair :')
Worst I've had is when I was level 16, had a level 14 partner, and we were against 2 TM's, one being level 19 the other 20...

I still play this game, with a lot of other people and this won't stop me from playing but I just think a lot more people would play & not just rage quit after an hour of playing due to things like this happening.

Post #: 9

3/19/2014 15:32:06

Noobatron x3000
Member

Thing is your not safe at 40 anymore anyway a legend rank 1 40 doesn't stand a chance against a high end leg rank 40

rather then fixing the balance and matchmaking they seem to be in a loop of breaking it more.

Post #: 10

3/19/2014 15:32:25

Xendran
Member

@edwardvulture: what does the range being 38-40 have to do with "low level" matchmaking? O_o

We all know how terrible it is at high levels, im wondering if its potentially even worse at low levels, or if the ability to semi-twink your characters with build knowledge helps compensate when rerolling. Either way, new players get screwed.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 3/19/2014 15:33:32 >

Epic

Post #: 11

3/19/2014 15:33:46

GrandadKronik
Member

I get that too, yes it is all down to Skills and Stats but the fact that you can be matched against someone up to 5-6 levels higher in total then tell me, no matter how you put your stats & skills, if the person you're against is up to 5 levels higher, or even 4, then all them extra stats, skills & bonuses they get for being that level is going to win them the game, no the actual skills themselves..
Well, unless like I said they don't know how to spec, but still....

Imo it is worse in the low levels, & that's coming from someone who's, ok not been Legendary rank yet but has been up to level 30.
2v2's are still fun but just not when 3 games in a row you get matched against people who'd just kill you in 2-3 skills due to LEVEL difference. Knowledge of the game does help, hence why I'm not like "EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS I LOSE" because I don't, I have managed to kill people up to 4 levels higher in a 1v1 but ONLY because I know how to spec & they didn't.
In 2v2's it's just worse because the chances of both me and my partner being a lower level than both our opponents is just ridiculous.

Posts merged to avoid double posting. Double posting is considered spam so please use the edit button to add content to your post. ~Therril Oreb

< Message edited by Therril Oreb -- 3/20/2014 2:07:20 >

Post #: 12

3/19/2014 21:03:12

Mother1
Member

Match making is horrible at all levels. Why because their aren't enough players within the ranges to go around. So of course match making is going to stink if their aren't enough players without something to compensate for the lack of players.

Most people I see at low levels are those high dex TM's builds which is so strong down there that if you aren't using the right builds you will get slaughtered even with a level advantage.

Epic	Post #: 13

3/20/2014 11:17:53

GrandadKronik
Member

You don't really believe that right? At low levels, I've never had to wait longer than about 20 seconds to find a 1v1 or 2v2, & I honestly wouldn't mind waiting another extra 20-30 seconds to find a game that's actually fair to play.. (no more than 2 level difference in 1v1, 3 levels in 2v2 imo) but that's just me..

& Those low level Tech Mages aren't hard to kill when they're actually around your level... given you aren't going to beat them all, least when they're not 4 levels higher you actually stand a chance.

Post #: 14

3/20/2014 11:48:15

Mother1
Member

@ Grandadkronik

What you experience =/= what other players experience. While one person may not have to wait more than 20-30 seconds, others may have to wait longer depending on the player pool. Also you have to remember that a change like this will affect ALL levels not just lower levels.

What might be ok for one group of players may hurt another group of players.

The buff to plasma bolt back in delta is good example of this. Then they buffed plasma bolt back then they did it with the intent of helping out lower level mages who were getting the butts kicked. However since this change affected all levels it overpower Tech mages's plasma bolt at higher levels.

Now getting back on topic I will explain the cutting the level range thing.

As you already said before cutting the level range will increase wait times since the range is smaller which is the flaw of this. Now honestly if we had a bigger player base this change wouldn't be felt however, since our player base is really small it would be very unwise to do this Without adding something to compensate the increased wait times because while players complain and quit due to unfair fights, players at all levels not just lower ones will also quit if the wait times get too unbearable due to cutting the range without doing something to make up for wait times.

As for the last part I have seen that build many times used on my lower level alts, and it is the most popular TM build I see at lower levels. One stun is a death wish even at even levels if you don't have a counter build or you are weak to energy.

Also with the way the game has been at those levels even with a 4 level disadvantage if I have a build advantage I still end up clobbering them.

TL:DR

part 1 If you cut the level range add something to compensate for increased wait times. Otherwise you will have impatient players rage quitting especially those who play when the server population is at it's lowest

Part 2 changes like this affect all levels not just lower ones. The staff has to think about all the levels not just a certain group.

Part 3 not saying it is ok for it to happen but in those cases if the lower level has a build advantage it can make up for a level disadvantage meaning Same level =/= always equal fair fight Level disadvantage =/= always lose.

Epic	Post #: 15

3/20/2014 21:45:58

s0u1ja b0y
Member

Matchmaking isn't terrible though. You can win being 3 lvls lower, up until you start facing legends. 40s should only 40s, but that would never happen. Epicduel is a game for people at lvl cap and they would never ever ever ever do anything to affect lvl cap players.

Epic	Post #: 16

3/21/2014 1:13:48

Mother1
Member

@ S0u1ja b0y

That is not true. If that was the case they would have never added that matchmaking change that made it so level 40's who already had the smallest player range have an even smaller one including 1 vs 1 where it was cut from 5 to 2 and 2 vs 2 where it was cut from 6 to 4.

Epic	Post #: 17

3/21/2014 2:12:07

s0u1ja b0y
Member

@mother1
The matchmaking is one time and it still didn't hurt 40s much. They can still 2v2 and fight the lower lvls anyway. Legend ranks are clearly unbalanced, but no mentions of change. I was talking about in general as well. 90% of all achievements are impossible to get unless you're near the level cap.

Epic	Post #: 18

3/21/2014 2:45:56

Mother1
Member

@ S0u1jia b0y

Actually it did hurt them believe it or not. Wait times did go up because they lost 50% of their level range which in turn makes them have a longer wait for fights due to the staff not putting something in to compensate for wait times.

As for your last statement no offense but you missed by a mile.

The badges are all buyable with credits and their are more of those than any other cheevo so that right there proves your arguement wrong about 90% of the achievements being impossible to get. The only one's I actually believe this to be true with are the following

Biotanical boss cheevo
Spider boss cheevo

Everything else can be claimed at lower levels before the level cap.

Epic	Post #: 19

3/28/2014 10:56:26

lampur1
Member

the problem really isnt matchmaking at lower lvls although the higer lvl starting is annoying.
its just that i know how you feal and at lover levels the balance is more terrible than at 30+

AQW

Epic

Post #: 20

3/28/2014 18:40:12

Noobatron x3000
Member

^ I disagree the higher level you get the more that 3-6 level gap difference makes, I feel the higher you are the worse broken matchmaking is for the reason just mentioned the fact that lower levels aren't always experienced enough to turn a huge advantage into a unwinnable situation for you and it takes a lot more xp to level the higher you get . And once you get past 30 a lot less people are playing because how broken the game is at the top end.

Post #: 21

3/28/2014 19:08:10

Mother1
Member

@ noobatron x3000

just because some lower levels aren't experienced enough to do that doesn't mean this isn't a problem at all levels. Personally I hope they actually do a duel fix for matchmaking so this problem can be solved without flawed fixes.

Epic	Post #: 22

3/28/2014 19:12:53

Noobatron x3000
Member

Having a almost guaranteed chance of losing to a plus 5 at the high end is a lot worse then having a hard time of it at say lvl 20 vs 25. A 30 doesn't have a hope in hell against a 35 without luck and lots of it , or the 35 having no clue what they're doing .

I've beaten many 25s at l20 even a lot of the smart ones just the difference gets to steep the higher you get.

Post #: 23

3/28/2014 19:25:42

Mother1
Member

@ Noobatron x3000

How does lack of experience justify leaving fights unfair at the lower levels? I ask this because I noticed that you have been complaining about mismatched fights at the higher levels for the longest and have been saying that we need to "cut the level range, and accept longer wait times for the sake of saving the game in the long run." Yet here it sounds like you are justifying it at the lower levels because there is a change for an experienced lower level to be inexperienced higher levels.

Mismatched fights are mismatched fights no matter what the level range, and just because someone with more experience may have a better chance of winning at lower levels is not a valid excuse to leave this like this.

What about players who aren't experienced and get clobbered consistently? How is that fair to them? Answer it isn't.

Epic	Post #: 24

3/28/2014 19:38:06

Noobatron x3000
Member

Wasn't justifying it simply saying its more justified at lower levels because a skilled player can still win without luck, at the higher end its impossible without luck or stupidity on the higher levels side.

I think matchmaking should be fixed across the board , Just more so at the top since that's where its having the most effect.

Fact is most people are either playing at the low end or at 40 everyone else leaves and a few struggle there way to 40 and vow never to level a toon past 30 again . There's a reason for this.

And honestly I suspect the less hardcore 40s will start leaving soon if legend ranks aren't fixed soon.

Post #: 25

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