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Fix legendary rank ratio's

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4/23/2014 11:31:20   
Predator9657
Member

There have been many complaints about the legendary rank system being "broken" but if the devs don't intend to undertake a full revamp in the foreseeable future, then they should at least fix the balance of power between the ranks.

This should be a very simple matter (as will be exemplified) of just tweaking a few figures and it should result in the value of each rank being equal, therefore preventing the ranks from unfair bias in favour of certain builds (they currently favour Str builds more than the rest).

How to make the ratio's fair?

If we use primary damage as the base and set the relative value to 1;

Def/Res should have a value of 2

(because each point of def/res individually has the potential to save you 0.5 HP per turn while each point of primary damage has the potential to cause 1 HP damage per turn)

Side-arm damage should have a value of 3

(since the sidearm can only be used once every 3 turns, 1 point of sidearm damage has the potential to cause 1/3 HP damage per turn while 1 point of primary damage has the potential to cause 1 HP damage per turn)

Robot/Aux damage should have a value of 4

(since robot/aux can only be used to deal damage every 4 turns, the same logic for sidearm damage applies here)

N.B. The example is using ratio's so the values are relative to primary damage and are not stand-alone figures.
Epic  Post #: 1
4/23/2014 13:05:11   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 My problem is that some people have already paid so much var and creds to buy these points, same thing with Abyss. Now I understand that "Moderators are able to alter any game data at any time" (as stated in the terms and conditions) but we seriouslllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy have got to try to limit this from happening. I beg of you. The +3 Defense and Resistance basically cancel out the +3 Primary anyway. And I honestly hate the argument that "If you know somethings OP then expect it to get nerfed Var user, you shouldn't have bought it anyway".

I am sorry but I cannot support this especially since the +3 primary strength category is equivalent to the +3 res and +3 defense categories. Therefore, ultimately, balancing out itself.

Not supported.

--Ghost God--
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 2
4/24/2014 4:50:03   
Seteriel
Member

Another quickfix would be: you may only unlock rank points based on your character rank. For example:
Player is rank 1-10 = only 1 ranking point per legendary categorie can be invested at max
Players rank 11-20 = maximum 2 points per categorie
...
Players rank 51-60 = maximum 6 points
...
Players rank 91 may finally max out all categories


quote:

My problem is that some people have already paid so much var and creds to buy these points

Let a program scan for lvl 40 chars, then let all lvl 40 chars be scanned for ranks, then give them a 100% credit refund based on ranks achieved, then reset the slots to lvl 1 (not the ranks themselves, only the bought slots, i.e. a rank 40 would still be rank 40, but only have the free rank 1 slot - and the credits to buy the others back). Would be a harsh yet workable solution.

A capping system like this, or a cap to "max rank 10 for 3 months, then max rank 20 for 3 months" or somthing like that and which we had to a bigger extend with the old lvl cap, should have been implemented in the first place. Allowing less active players to catch back up to the top active players.

While i understand why it was not implemented, it is now the time to redo the decision in one way (rebalancing) or another (capping).

< Message edited by Seteriel -- 4/24/2014 4:52:34 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
4/24/2014 11:39:49   
Predator9657
Member

quote:

I am sorry but I cannot support this especially since the +3 primary strength category is equivalent to the +3 res and +3 defense categories. Therefore, ultimately, balancing out itself.


+3 primary damage =/= +3 Res or +3 Def. So how is it "ultimately balanced out"?
Epic  Post #: 4
4/24/2014 19:31:15   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 3=3... Meaning the only ones suffering because of that scaling are the ones who may have fallen behind and chose not to rank up as quickly as other players. And im sorry seteriel =/ but ED will never refund. I love your idea about one point for all categories every ten ranks but it should have been that way the first time because now people have spent so much money, time, and effort to get to where they are now only to be equal to everyone else. I would honestly quit pvp if they changed the system. And Epicduel cant refund because there is no amount of varium or money that can make up for the simple factor of time. Time that people have spent staying awake and pulling all nighters in order to gain these ranks.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
4/25/2014 4:48:12   
kosmo
Member
 

 predator is right.

+30 wep dmg is worth duble +30 def/res.

i would suggest to make wep dmg scale for the first 5 ranks of 20 dmg and for the rest of 10 dmg, in tht way 10 ranks would give a total bonus of 150 dmg, which would be equal to the current bonus def and res give.
Epic  Post #: 6
4/25/2014 17:17:43   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Honestly this just sounds like a thread to even the playing field for those of you who have fallen behind in ranks. This is a PVP, not a mercy match.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
4/25/2014 19:32:27   
Dual Thrusters
Member

quote:

And Epicduel cant refund because there is no amount of varium or money that can make up for the simple factor of time.


You used time to get the credits, in order to use them on what you want. Credits = Time. Therefore the value of credits is equal to the value of time, which doesn't need to be replaced because you already got what you had to earn. Therefore a 100% refund with this idea is completely fair.

And this affects every level 40 in the same way, so its not like anyone will lose/gain any advantages.

< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 4/25/2014 19:36:05 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
4/25/2014 21:25:24   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Haha I haven't paid with credits since beta. You cant refund var. I used time to rank up. Not for credits. Most of you guys use credits as your main currency, some people use their moms credit card for varium, but others like me work for our varium to both support this game and get what we paid for. You cant refund what we go through to earn the money and what we go through to purchase the UGC cards. I am sorry but you just cant.

< Message edited by The berserker killer -- 4/25/2014 21:30:07 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
4/25/2014 21:38:29   
Dual Thrusters
Member

You worked to get the money, which was to get Varium. That makes Varium the manifestation of your hard work. So if you get your Varium back, you don't lose what you worked for, because you can spend it on something else, which is OTHER Legendary Ranks if you are not satisfied after this change. (Assuming this ever gets implemented which I highly doubt that it will).
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
4/26/2014 11:18:19   
Predator9657
Member

@ berserker:

First I will address your point about varium players losing money due to this idea. You either haven't read my first post properly or you haven't understood it. Because if you had, you would realize that this has nothing to do with suggesting a buff or a nerf for L ranks. All this is trying to fix is the balance in between the ranks.

Hence I mentioned:
quote:

N.B. The example is using ratio's so the values are relative to primary damage and are not stand-alone figures.


So the dev's can buff/nerf as they see fit. All we're interested in is that the value of the individual ranks are roughly the same. In no way whatsoever will that devalue the varium spent on L ranks.

As for the value of L ranks in comparison to the normal stats, IF that get's nerfed I agree that the amount of varium spent will be wasted, however, that has nothing to do with this thread so you're point is invalid.

Secondly I will reemphasize that if 3 points of primary damage (an investment of 1 L rank) is equal to 3 points of defence + 3 points of resistance (an investment of 2 L ranks) - which it currently is - then this is most certainly not balanced. So regardless of how you present your figures (you're "3=3"), maths can prove that this is an imbalance.

Conclusively, you're arguments for "Not supported." are illogical and consequently have been proved invalid.
Epic  Post #: 11
4/26/2014 11:25:31   
kosmo
Member
 

 even high ranked players wonts them to be fixed.

the problem isnt the advange of the ranks, the problem is the unbalance between legendary stats;
this is restricting strategies and its the first cause of why strenght builds are dominating.

for how i see it some of you dont wont legendary stats to be balanced mostly because u have paid for them, well guess what? that s not a valid reason.

out of topic:
my accounts are on high rank. (24 and 16)



< Message edited by kosmo -- 4/26/2014 11:26:22 >
Epic  Post #: 12
4/26/2014 13:00:48   
lionblades
Member

I support this. Legendary ranks are obviously in favor of str. I stated a long time ago that if the Devs don't fix this flawed rank system as in remove or heavily modify when players are at rank1-5, then it will be chaos later on. Now I see lv40s at rank 40-50ish like Comicalbiker. These rank40s can fight lv38s which is more than a 5 level gap (5 ranks=1 level). But its better late than never. I guess a small modification to make str ranks weaker is fair and logical (ranks favor str) because now if the Devs remove this flawed system the player base will be severely hurt. Too bad removing them is not an option anymore because casual players and upcoming lv38s just got screwed in the long run.
AQW  Post #: 13
4/26/2014 20:13:45   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 So basically change the system because you guys cant win? Its a PLAYER V PLAYER, not a mercy match. That means that those who fall behind in a level based game get left behind. Fixing LPS because you can't win against higher ranks is both not fair and highly ridiculous. And with all due respect heres an example of how it is even.



If I use a Primary physical sword with 543 damage against your character with 300 defense I might hit somewhere around 243 damage. If I use a legendary point to raise my str and you use one to raise your defense id still hit the same damage. Why?? Cause 3=3.

And even if you can win, youre only asking them to change the legendary system because there is not a whole bunch of competition out there. Give it some time and then think abut this thread.

The system is completely and utterly fair to me. And there is NO WAY to refund varium. NONE. People walk/jog 2 miles to a store and back through in order to buy a UGC. And that's only one scenario. You can not refund varium equally to the amount of effort an individual puts in to purchase it.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 14
4/26/2014 20:25:16   
Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

Guess what they changed the level range for level 40's to 38-40 from 35-40 in 1 vs 1 and 36-40 to 34-40 in 2 vs 2 and can you guess why? Because legendary ranks was making it impossible for lower level players to win and made it so they were punching bags for legendary players.

The whole legendary system was made for guess who? Hardcore players who got bored when they reached the top and had nothing to do. This system is literally for about 2-5% of the player base (Hardcore players) while it spits in the faces of casual players who don't do that (which makes up the bulk of the player base)

This kind of system was IMO the worst thing they could have brought into the game due to the ever declining player base. This would have been better for Beta-Delta where we had a player base not Omega where the players pool is low.

Personally if it was up to me I would remove this system 100% or just change it and add a Daily and all time EXP leader board with cheevos for the players who get the most EXP in a day. Sort of damage control but I doubt it will happen.
Epic  Post #: 15
4/26/2014 20:38:36   
Dual Thrusters
Member

quote:

The system is completely and utterly fair to me. And there is NO WAY to refund varium. NONE. People walk/jog 2 miles to a store and back through in order to buy a UGC. And that's only one scenario. You can not refund varium equally to the amount of effort an individual puts in to purchase it.

quote:

You worked to get the money, which was to get Varium. That makes Varium the manifestation of your hard work. So if you get your Varium back, you don't lose what you worked for, because you can spend it on something else, which is OTHER Legendary Ranks if you are not satisfied after this change. (Assuming this ever gets implemented which I highly doubt that it will).

They don't need to "refund" your jog or whatever you had to do to get that UGC, because you are still getting what you worked for which is completely fair. And anyway, it is not an excuse that things should be made imbalanced.

quote:

So basically change the system because you guys cant win? Its a PLAYER V PLAYER, not a mercy match. That means that those who fall behind in a level based game get left behind. Fixing LPS because you can't win against higher ranks is both not fair and highly ridiculous. And with all due respect heres an example of how it is even.

With this logic we might as well remove the 5 level gap just because.

It's called balance for a reason. Every player should be able to progress through the game in a close-to convenient way. It's things like these that made players quit.







< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 4/26/2014 20:39:28 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
4/26/2014 22:44:00   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 So the pvp pool is the problem then...not the ranks. Rank 10+ Players should only fight Rank 10+ Players. And trust me, get to rank 10 or 20 if you have fallen behind and max out your def and res first and I guarantee you that you guys won't have this "unfair" problem. Most players are trying to max out their primary first. Thats where they're going wrong. And they will never refund anyway so no point debating over that.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 17
4/26/2014 23:57:57   
Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

that would work if there was a large group of players matching every group of ranks. if you did that those players would wait a huge period of times for fights. Remember not everyone is a hardcore player to get real high in the ranks that quickly where as before these ranks were introduced all you had do was level up and get to the level were those players were since those hardcore players had a cut off point.

However since there is hardly any cut off point and this gap can get ever so bigger casual players who would eventually catch up before to fill the slots can't do so because the hardcore players can get further and further ahead.

Without a player pool of players within the same or close to same ranks as these players your idea would make those players quit because they are almost completely isolated from the masses.

It is the same reason why I have always brought something like this up for those players who want fair fights without adding something to compensate for wait times.
Epic  Post #: 18
4/27/2014 20:45:47   
lionblades
Member

@Berzerker killer
quote:

So basically change the system because you guys cant win? Its a PLAYER V PLAYER, not a mercy match. That means that those who fall behind in a level based game get left behind.

That's is no way to justify the legendary ranks system. In case you haven't noticed, new players are going play this game too. Rising lv38s will be discouraged after seeing they will now have to fight lv40s than can be potentially 22 levels above them (100/5 +2). Right now your saying players that just joined this game should get left behind by this much? This just makes rising new players and casual lv38s punching bags in the long run. And, you idea of making another rank gap is a bad idea because of wait times. Even right now I have to wait about 1-2 minutes for a 2vs2 match. Sorry but separation by ranks just won't happen.

Also, I do not see why you are so vehemently against Predator's ideas because he is not taking away legendary ranks (even though that should have happened a long time ago IMO) but rather modifying the str bias in the ranks which is a better solution than nothing. It seems you don't want the change because you paid for it, but that is not a legitimate reason.
AQW  Post #: 19
4/27/2014 23:55:31   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Clearly the problem is the Player Pool then.. Where I say just go NPC then. I was lvl 32 by the time the legendary system came out. Now I am Rank 32. So no, I don't expect some level 38 to just hop on EpicDuel and win a match just like that. I am sorry, but I am respectfully against this idea because i both paid for it and fought hard to get where I am at now. I stand by my statement, wait till rank 30 or put your lps in Defense and Resistance first and watch how easy the game gets.

Strategy helps you win, not complaining and hoping that those who have worked harder will be brought back down.

The ranks are for, and I quote "Per-fecting your build". Altering them would be very hypocritical of EpicDuel since all we're doing now is Per-Fecting our builds.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
4/28/2014 1:24:12   
Mother1
Member

@ the berserker killer

Here is a news flash. You think many players didn't pay or work hard for their perks in the past only to have them removed? Many of us brought a little thing called enhancements that existed in beta-delta. Many of us also brought varium only items with real money back then and you know what they did?

The removed enhancements that people paid real money or credits for and made varium only items including some old promos available for all because they felt that it would improve balance.

My point being is that if this is what is needed to fix balance or make it better they are going to do it no matter how much money you sank into something as well as how unfair you think it may be.

Epic  Post #: 21
4/28/2014 2:41:18   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Yes Mother I was here in Delta and Beta. And my point is that our goal should be to limit it...not encourage nerfing. My argument stil stands, the Legendary Points are here to help us per-fect our builds to the point where they are supposed to be Epic. To the point where they are supposed to be Legendary.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 22
4/28/2014 16:02:26   
ambien
Member

fixing this rank problem could be easy, each rank would unlock with 1 pt in each skill rank.

1 pt in prime, 1 in pistol, 1 in aux, 1 in def, 1 in reist,1 in bot. then start over again 2 in prime ,2 in pistol,2 in aux and so forth and so forth.
that would of made ranking pts fair.

it would stop having 30 pts damgae in 1 rank and nothing in the other rank skills.

always the syfy
Post #: 23
4/28/2014 17:23:52   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

There isn't any problems with legendary ranks. Everything that's supposedly wrong with ranks is based off the current build types that are dominating. Right now its HP strength. Everyone has equal opportunity to rank up with PvP or NPC. Just make one class and one weapon only with only 1 lvl and 1 build. That's what it the game is moving towards. All of the changes people wanted(weapons equal, no enhancements,etc.) had nothing to do with balance at all, but rather wanting to be unbeatable.
Epic  Post #: 24
4/30/2014 23:16:20   
Noobatron x3000
Member

I quit pretty soon after the implementation of legendary ranks were introduced , To me it just symbolised the act of a desperate game pandering to the tiniest fraction of the player base ( and this games player base is so small already) When you introduce something that only really benefits hardcore players and breaks balance worse then it already was . Yeah I'm not hanging around kind of obvious already there wont be a phase after omega.

I've returned in the past , Not this time this games had its time the players know it . The staff know it , AE knows it remember legion and doom that were just being removed whilst they ("fixed issues with lag they believed the 2 servers were causing) This game wasn't holding enough players to make 4 tiny servers viable, or enough money .

Writings been on the wall for awhile for this game , I sometimes come back to look at the forums , usually just to see if there still here , But the game nah that died along time ago not interested in it.
Post #: 25
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