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BMs way OPed

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8/16/2014 4:32:38   
Thylek Shran
Member

Do the devs know at all that BMs are way OPed or is it intended as usual to make money with class change ?
90% of TMs are now BMs and about 40% of active players ! A class that has so many OPed skills combined.

Parasite !
Mark of Blood !
Bludgeon !
Plasma Cannon !

This class has a natural bonus of about 60 legendary skills points and even rank 50 TMs and rank 60 CHs
have serious trouble to beat lvl 40 rank 1 BMs or even level 38 BMs !

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 8/16/2014 4:37:59 >

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v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 1
8/16/2014 4:41:45   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Thylek, that doesn't sound like something you would normally post.

But anyway, I think that any level 40 who continuously loses to a level 38 BM has something wrong with their build.

< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 8/16/2014 4:43:41 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
8/16/2014 5:05:05   
Thylek Shran
Member

Not continously and it happens. But not because something is wrong with their build.
Its because BM is so OPed and the game balance in its worst state ever.

quote:

Thylek, that doesn't sound like something you would normally post.

Its because im a patient person but my patient has found an end. So many crap
balance since 1,5 years now (Omega) with not much balance changes from the devs
side at all. Other players just had quit.
DF Epic  Post #: 3
8/16/2014 5:07:18   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 You sounds like a reverse Hun Kingq

And no, BMs are perfectly fine. Or maybe you're implying that BHs are OP as well since my level 37 BH can consistently beat the level 38 BMs you're having trouble with?

Chill.
Post #: 4
8/16/2014 5:23:11   
theholyfighter
Member

Not perfectly tho, IMO.

Energy Parasite lasts for 3 turns with a 3 turn cooldown, which means you can constantly use it again and again.
Mark of Blood grants health steal one turn more than the description.
AQW Epic  Post #: 5
8/16/2014 5:25:23   
Ranloth
Banned


 Mark of Blood works on hit, and pays for it with lower overall %. If it worked after cast, so no HP on use, then its %'s would be higher than they are now. Mecha has explained it just after passives were removed, since I had the very same question.
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
8/16/2014 5:42:35   
Predator9657
Member

BM's are fine, I quite enjoy all these BM builds. Arguably they are "overused" but since parasite works in a "strange" way, it keeps the matches lively and I have a fair chance of winning against BM's (even though I'm TM and they steal my EP very well).
Epic  Post #: 7
8/16/2014 9:45:07   
slumbering insomniac
Member

any class can be OP, just depends how good the player is,
plus bloodmages don't have any strong energy grab skills, parasite is good but it doesn't give the user
nearly enough energy for a strong move, whereas every other class has one or two much higher energy taking skills
Epic  Post #: 8
8/16/2014 10:41:55   
Predator9657
Member

Maybe your problem is "Str is way OPed"?
Epic  Post #: 9
8/16/2014 11:14:14   
Mother1
Member

Issue is now that Energy parasite is being used my strength focus BM's. Before the latest buff to Energy parasite Strength builds didn't use it because of the lack of Damage and the high support tag. However now that it can deal somewhat acceptable damage it has been added to the arsenal and when combining strength and focus unless you have anti strength measures, Tank well, or just get lucky it can overwhelm most.

I beat them sometimes but still that consistent damage output Strength builds have due to having strike as well as the strong rage gain they get is hard to combat if you don't have anti rage/Strength measures.
Epic  Post #: 10
8/16/2014 12:46:34   
I Underlord I
Member

Not that I am of the opinion that Blood Mages are "way OPed," but... without delving too far into content that belongs in a certain thread in a different subforum, Energy Parasite is the crux of the issue. Dealing 85% damage yet being unblockable, having a cooldown of only three turns, and being usable when one's own self is at full EP gives the skill excessive versatility and power, particularly to the problematic Strength builds.

Having said that, it requires a more tactical if not strategical approach on usage, spam notwithstanding.


quote:

slumbering insomniac wrote:

plus bloodmages don't have any strong energy grab skills, parasite is good but it doesn't give the user
nearly enough energy for a strong move, whereas every other class has one or two much higher energy taking skills

Bounty Hunter has relatively mediocre EP drain (especially with the basis on Support) and terrible regain. Cyber Hunter has a powerful but costly drain, as well as a highly inconvenient gain. Mercenaries are in a much better boat, but Static Smash is blockable. Tactical Mercenary and especially Tech Mage are the true masters of energy control, with Blood Mage not too far behind.

Of course, referencing the latter part of your second sentence, the drain itself does leave something to be desired... but only when the opponent has low EP anyways.

_____________________________

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AQ  Post #: 11
8/16/2014 13:19:02   
Ranloth
Banned


 If it was blockable, that'd be it to the skill, pretty much perfectly balanced. Assimilation but working differently (based on current EP) and no Staff requirement, which is somewhat compensated by the drain being unreliable at times.
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
8/16/2014 13:27:57   
King Bling
Member

REASONS BM ARE OP :-

1.) Energy gain :- Tm - Need one turn to get energy( battery) and no turn to get energy ( Assimilation)
Tlm - Need one turn to get energy( battery)
Bh - Need one turn to get energy( EMP)
Merc - Need one turn to get energy( Static smash)
Ch - Strike and get energy(Static Charge)
Bm - Strike and get energy(Parasite)

So basically, advantage goes to BM, CH, AND A TM.

2.) Health Gain :- Tm - Need one turn to get health back (Field Medic)
Tlm - Need one turn to get health back(Field Medic) and Strike and get health (Frenzy)
Bh - Need one turn to get health back(Field Medic) and Strike and get health( MoB)
Merc - Need one turn to get health back(Field Medic) and needs one turn to get health back(Field Commander + Health gained can be reduced using azaraels core)
Ch - Needs one turn to get health back(Field Medic)
Bm - Needs one turn to get health back(Field Medic) and Strike to get health(MoB)

So basically, advantage goes to BM, BH, MERC AND A TLM

1.) Now if you carefully see a BM gets advantage at both the things i.e strike and get health + energy back while no other class can does this, all this class does is Intimidate, Parasite, MoB , Blude and its a game over.

2.) Second thing is while a CH AND A TM can get instant energy gain BH, MERC AND A TLM get instant health gain, but vica versa its not possible( i.e BH, MERC AND A TLM cannot get instant energy and CH AND A TM cannot get instant health) while BM on the other hand gets both which again makes it OP. (Not to mention the 85% unblockable hit)



< Message edited by King Bling -- 8/16/2014 13:32:32 >
Post #: 13
8/16/2014 13:54:17   
Gold Shock
Member

I vaguely remember a few days before the release of BC on the ED Forums, someone was complaining about how BC would make mercenaries OPed. That person was Hun King who was a blood mage. Blood mages do have a problem though that are not game breaking, but could be tweaked in a balance update. I think Energy Parasite is just a bad idea and needs to be erased all together. Replace it with Assimilation and they should be good to go.

As a Mercenary from what I've seen, people are using strength builds a lot and I think they can be better. I've found only one amazing build to counter them. Max Heal 5 Focus. This tactic USE to require certain weapons and armor but now since Omega is here, things are different. Stats are mostly Dex and a bit in Tech. If you have armor generation, have even Defense & Resistance. These are life savers. Add no energy what-so-ever and grab around 109HP. I've been 75% to 90% with this. I'm trying to say, you must make you're build with as much less weak points in it as possible. You'll never be able to get rid of them all, but it's important to try.

There is a issue with Blood mage being able to win faster than others, making it harder to go for titles sometimes, but this is all counter-able .

< Message edited by Gold Shock -- 8/16/2014 15:04:39 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
8/16/2014 14:27:08   
Variation
Member
 

 ^Nope they aren't really overpowered. Players would rather deem something as overpowered instead of finding counters for them. I made BMs cry all the time as a BH/Merc, and that still hasn't changed since I've been a BM.
Post #: 15
8/16/2014 14:55:47   
Satafou
Member

Blood mage isn't even slightly "op'd" there is many builds to counter it. You have to experiment with whatever class you are and create your own build tweaked to have an advantage vs Blood mages if they're really such a problem for you. That's the best and most effective way to solve your problem of Blood mages.
Post #: 16
8/16/2014 14:55:56   
Gold Shock
Member

quote:

^Nope they aren't really overpowered. Players would rather deem something as overpowered instead of finding counters for them.


You are 100% right Variation, I should have chosen a better word; that is my fault. Fixed it. I do agree that more people sit on the idea that they are overpowered, and spend less time countering BM"s. People would be amazed what they can do if they capitalize on certain points. The issues I listed such as intimidate & Parasite where merely suggestions if a balance was every actually introduced. But countering goes for every class in this game. I thought DEX tech mages were unbeatable, but simple strategical intervention was all that was needed. Bot-Aux-Gun-Unblockable skill, and repeat. My unblock-able being bunker, and the use of android bot. Another so called "OP build" was Massacre + Poison. I simply made a Max Surgical Strike build too counter these builds specifically. My tips for anyone struggling:

If you want to be a good player what you need is experience and experimenting. Try builds out, understand how the game works, and never give up. there are 3 words that you should play by: retrain retrain retrain.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
8/16/2014 15:18:10   
DeathGuard
Member

BM isn't overpowered. It is strong and sometimes are hard to beat, but you still can counter their builds.
Also Overpowered is normally used to describe things that can't be beaten. Totally different from BM's current state.
I'm able to beat High rank BMs and I'm barely Rank 4. It has been quite hard for me to adjust to their gameplays but I finally found a semi offensive tank build that's helping me win.

Also don't try to justify that some class is OP because Devs want to make money from class change, it is silly.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
8/16/2014 15:40:02   
Mr.Pablo Jr.
Member

I've been here for four years now and seen my fair share of OP builds and their subsequent nerfs. Every time an OP build comes about, people complain about it: the build/class/skill gets nerfed and a new OP build pops up. This has been the cycle, however I think that right now, the classes are mostly balanced save for a few necessary tweaks to TLM. BMs aren't OPed for the simple reason that they can be beat with a good build and strategy from the other classes. When 5 Focus BH was OPed, it was literally impossible to beat unless you had that same build, however with BM, it can be easily beat by Str Mercs, Dex mages, and I'm sure CH as well. Sure there are a lot of BMs running around, but it's not like they have 95%+ win ratios, something that Heal Loop Mage and the Focus Builds had. While I can't speak for Lv40 battles, I know that as a Lv35 Focus BM, I've gotten my butt kicked by all different kinds of classes. If the devs nerf BM, then how soon will it be before a new OP build comes up? Honestly, BMs aren't OPed, just overused.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
8/16/2014 15:49:44   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 "The problem is that parasites being used by str blood mages"? Then the problem all around is strength. Static smash is being abused by str mercs, Stun and a 34% block chance is being abused by dex mages and you're complaining about parasite being used by strength blood mages? Nonsense. 4 months ago CH Massacre build was OP and everyone complained. 2 months ago Jay Hawks Merc Blood Commander/Zerk Build became OP and you guys complained. Im not gonna lie, I complained too. And what happened with these builds? We found counters. Now you guys are complaining about f5 blood mages running around and pawning everyone because you're too stubborn to accept the fact that we're finally getting out of the "High Str High Hp" stage?? Which if I may add, is a stage that you guys have been complaining about since Omega? Im not trying to be rude here but stop it, cmon guys we're finally getting strategy back into the game rather than high hp and high str.

Now if you're falling behind in ranks and you can't beat a rank 50 because you're rank 5 then that's a different story. The problem is the legendary system. If you're problem is your lack of ability to formulate builds then that's a different story. The problem is you haven't lost enough yet. If the problem is that Blood Mages can balance out a perfect amount of hp with enough defenses to last while having slightly OP str then that's a different story! The problem is strength.

My constructive criticism? We're not gonna get anywhere by nerfing this class. Ok think about it. You nerf BM back then what? You just killed your only chance of us getting out of this High Str High Hp stage and going back to using actual skill in battles and you basically encouraged. ED Devs took 2 steps forward with buffing parasite, a SIMPLE buff, and ED is gonna take 3 steps back if they nerf it back. Welcome back CH Mass builds, welcome back High Str high HP builds, and HELLO unstoppable BC Mercs.

Is this class strong? Hell yeah and so is CH 1500 hp with sword lvl 7 malf and 562 primary with max static and max multi-shot while he's carrying 70 dexterity and a rank 40. So is a rank 20 Dex Mage with 480 prim dmg, 720 stun dmg, 650 multi dmg, and a battery that gives him 350 energy with assim that grants him another 100 and Piston/Gen that gives him an extra 250 WHILE he carries around a lvl 8 technician that grants him 58 technology for 4 turns which basically gives him defenses above 420. What's OP is Epic Reborns AWESOME build of 440 def and res as a tlm. But we find counters. We adapt, we change, we come back and we pawn.

This is a PVP guys. We find counters and we evolve. Is this class strong? Yeah but what class isn't? Sir Lazarus showed us TLM was insane. Variation and Conqrr showed me BH was insane. Matt 1000 showed me Tech Mage was insane. Cannibal Corpse showed me CH was insane. Jay Hawk showed me merc was insane and all of this is recent. Keep begging for nerfs on BM Parasite and you're encouraging high strength high hp. Youre going to set us 3 steps back.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 20
8/16/2014 15:52:46   
Ranloth
Banned


 ^ In other words, deal with Strength instead of going over every single skill that works off your Primary + Strength.

Also, overpowered means almost no one can defeat it, unless it's another overpowered build - by the definition, not by players saying this is broken and that is broken. If you cannot beat it, retrain. If you cannot beat it with any build, you may raise it on the Forums as a balance concern. If others can beat it, retrain. If no one can beat it, bring it up on Forums with some data to back it up with.
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
8/16/2014 16:37:01   
Mother1
Member

@ Trans

Which was why I made this thread sometime ago

Strength unlike any other stat has Strike which is free of cost, and cooldown. This means that Strength builds can dish out damage contently without worry of cooldown while waiting for other strength based moves to come out of cool down to use them.

No other build can do this seeing as every other skill has a cost and cool down. Make strike work with no stat and strength gets it's indirect nerf due to it no longer having a move without cool down or cost.
Epic  Post #: 22
8/16/2014 17:03:17   
Thylek Shran
Member

A few of you are saying that you can counter every build including BM with maxed Parasite.
The problem is that you then have more or less huge weaknesses against other builds.


quote:

Maybe your problem is "Str is way OPed"?

No as the most powerfull BMs now use 5 focus with some extra strenght, dex and tech and
have around 1500 HP. As we know HP is OPed too and maybe also strenght.
But in this case its the BM skills and especially Energy Parasite that is the problem. Those skills can
be combined so nicely to have the perfect mix of energy drain, energy gain, HP gain (MoB),
HP drain (damage) and rage gain.
Also most if not all those skills are OPed itself (Energy Parasite, Mark of Blood, Bludgeon, Plasma Cannon).
As example a level 7 bludgeon can do 918 damage on Rage before defense (subtract defense from that)
for only 220 EP. This is more than a maxed Super Charge does at 111 tech (825 dmg) which does cost
590 EPs ! Of course SC is unblockable, regenerates 30% HP from damage, and ignores 20% resistance
but cannot be combined with Rage.

I struggle to beat alot BMs because I invested a bit into Enery Points which I do need for
Super Charge and Parasite does become stronger then as its percentual on opponents EP.
This is the first point why Parasite is OPed in many situations and especially against characters
with high EPs. It should have a fixed amount of energy draining points while also being less
powerfull than now.
How can it be that high EP builds have a huge disadvantage against BMs with maxed Parasite ?
This does limit build diversity and is just not fair. Also there are no skills that increase in power
by opponents with high Health Points.

Another point is that Energy Parasite basically is a combination of Assimilation and
Battery Backup in just one skill and turn instead of two.

The 3 turn duration does control the opponent mostly for the whole duel as he then has to
focus for three turns to counter the drain effect by blasting EPs and to regenerate EPs.
After that the BM just can loop Parasite so that the cooldown turns are to low.
So while the opponent is being busy to handle the energy drain effect the BM can use the
gained energy (factor 1.5 from drained EP) to feed his skills and doing massive
damage (Bludgeon) or to heal. As example a maxed Parasite drains 93 EP from 620 EP
and adds 140 EPs to the user in one turn. The sum is 233 EP in just the first turn from three.
Add 85% strike damage to this which could be 100 to 200 damage without a crit.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 8/16/2014 17:41:16 >
DF Epic  Post #: 23
8/16/2014 17:11:29   
dfo99
Member
 

 this is obviously a whining thread, i for exemple defeat him alot of times even being under ranked. mercs for exemple is more harder than bms
Post #: 24
8/16/2014 17:25:06   
Satafou
Member

Overpowered is when something is near to or is unbeatable. Are you trying to say Blood mages at their current state are as overpowered as the caster tech mage in delta or like the heal loop tech mage or like support in beta/gamma. Quite frankly, many people on this thread have mentioned what and how you can counter your problem. Plasma cannon isn't broken at all. Bludgeon is strong simply because of it's low energy cost and effective damage output, but it isn't anything close to "overpowered". Mark of blood in a 1 vs 1 perspective, which I'm assuming is your main battle mode. Is the old passive bloodlust, but requiring a turn to activate and costs a good proportion of your mana i.e a lot weaker than previously. Infact Blood commander on mercs is much stronger than mark of blood and it has a lower mana cost. However since you're a tech mage battery is actually just as strong if no stronger than reroute which should give you a big edge in terms of keeping it's similar effectiveness before passive were removed. Energy parasite can only be classed "overpowered" if you were to be vs someone with a huge amount of mana, which firstly very few people have that and secondly it goes back to the idea of creating a build to counter it, by simply having a low mana count and your build not necessary relying on mana. Although Blood mage has a nice skill tree doesn't make it overpowered, mercs counter Blood mage with their skill tree set, that alone shows that it isn't overpowered if a whole class in general, not even with a specific build can beat a Blood mage without much thought if played correctly. You mention having a build with supercharge, maybe it's actually your build that is at fault, not being as effective as it should or needs to be. Perhaps you need a new build as I've stated before that doesn't need energy as much.
Post #: 25
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