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Your Thoughts On The Progression of EpicDuel

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4/14/2015 7:44:24   
Variation
Member
 

 Hello viewers! I decided to make this discussion thread so I could express my views and witness the views other players have on the Progression of EpicDuel.

Here is a list of common topics that seem to point back to the progression of EpicDuel.

•Do you feel EpicDuel is making progress? Why or why not?

•Would it be acceptable for the developers to alienate non-balance content to focus on balance? Even if they have different teams that each specialize in different fields?

•Would you prefer the developers taking more time to develop releases to ensure better quality of EpicDuel?

•Were there any changes in the design of EpicDuel that you believe could've been done better? If so what were they? What do you believe could alter those design changes to become more beneficial to not only you, but even to some of the players around you?

The general EpicDuel related topics above certainly do have multiple responses to them. The joy of critical thinking though, is that it can reinforce our disagreement with others around us based on logic. With that being said, I don't mind arguments -- however, it's bad practice to be uncivilized while having arguments in a thread like this. Personal attacks aren't needed in this thread. If people have to resort to using them here then EpicDuel is surely the least of their problems.

With all of that being said I can start...

I started playing EpicDuel in 2009(I was a kid) and even had a forum account on the original EDF. One thing that hasn't changed since that time until now, is that the developers still cannot generally please everyone. Most people probably are aware of that. However, sometimes I really wonder why some people are so fixated on solutions that could stab other members of the EpicDuel Community in the back. At the cost of what? Going in circles? Dividing the players? Massive discrimination? While I do believe EpicDuel is indeed making progress albeit slowly, I also see how dangerously divided the community is. The fact some players feel the need to attack high or low ranking players, non or varium players, players who npc or not, etc. is completely ridiculous. How can the EpicDuel Community prosper when it's so divided? EpicDuel can progress so much better if the implementation of features, events, and revamps grant equal opportunities(minus varium being a shortcut) for all while at the same time if it's a revamp respecting the players who it will relatively have a significant impact on.

I do not believe the developers need to leave all content that isn't related to balance behind to further progress. In fact, now that we have different teams that aren't strictly developers, moderators, or testers I don't see a reason to have them all working on balance. Especially considering not everyone is cut out to test/formulate balance ideas, no matter how good they are at catching rule breakers, art, writing, finding bugs, etc. Another thing, it has been explained time and time again that Nightwraith is fully capable of working with the EpicDuel database which includes, but is certainly not limited to adding item rows with their appropriate values for the particular items. That means if any of Charfade's disciples created items that are worthy of taking up space in the EpicDuel database Nightwraith can add them. Who loses? The database? Rhetoric aside, no productivity is really lost. This is why even if the items happen to be coreless I don't make a big deal out of it. Why is that? Simply because the player(s) who made the item(s) were a part of the team responsible for doing so.

One thing I’ve noticed a lot are some players constantly complaining about the lack of balance releases. A portion of one of Titan’s “Ask Titan” responses addresses a huge concern that is very often seen in the EpicDuel forum rants. The duration it takes for the developers to balance. Titan said himself
quote:

If there is one thing I’ve learned from EpicDuel and from working at Artix Entertainment is that it’s better to spend the time upfront to do things right or you’ll pay for it later. Measure twice, cut once.
While that portion of the response wasn’t directly aimed at balance it does show and offer a legit reason as to why balance patches generally take long. If the implementation of balance ideas aren’t well thought out the developers will absolutely pay for it later. If there are any people who know that it’s certainly the developers.

One design issue, in my opinion is
•The developers choosing to make losses only visible in-game to the character that the record belongs to and removing win percentages from the all-time battle leaderboards.

For the loss issue, which has been brought up on the forums before are losses only visible in-game to the character that the record belongs to and removing win percentages from the all-time battle leaderboards. The arguments I’ve seen on why losses/percentages should stay hidden are in my sincere opinion, pretty ridiculous. Probably the most common argument I see in support of hidden losses/percentages is harassment. That one really makes me laugh because while losses/percentages being shown did cause harassment, what doesn’t cause harassment in EpicDuel? I get harassed all the time because I’m a varium player, should varium be removed? What about all of the harassment based on what faction you’re in? Should factions be removed? What about all of the harassment based on how much wins someone has? Should wins be removed? I mean seriously? Rhetoric alone shows just how logical the harassment argument is. If harassment is the true reason why the developers decided to hide losses/percentages (which according to the DNs related to that release it isn’t, but certain players argue otherwise), then refer to the rhetoric above. I will go on to say, throughout my 5+ years of playing EpicDuel I’ve seen a lot more people being harassed simply because they invested real currency into it. Another thing that should be pointed out in regards to the harassment argument is the in-game reporting system. If people are being harassed over their losses they can simply report the harasser(s). EpicDuel has a dedicated moderation team that can review the report(s) of said harasser(s) and deal with them. With that common argument in support of hidden losses/percentages addressed I can move on. The reason why I’m such a strong supporter of at least an option for players to show their losses and win percentages being visible on the all-time battle leaderboards is because foremost EpicDuel is a PvP game. Not being able to see or calculate the win percentages of others around you and most importantly them not being able to see or calculate yours in my opinion, takes away a huge competitive aspect of a PvP based game. Some of us play just for increasing/maintaining our win percentage(s) and yes some of us did take pride in the complete visibility of our battle record to those around us. This goes back to what I stated earlier,
quote:

EpicDuel can progress so much better if the implementation of features, events, and revamps grant equal opportunities(minus varium being a shortcut) for all while at the same time if it's a revamp respecting the players who it will relatively have a significant impact on.
In this case the players such as myself took a very significant impact from the change. Now how could the impact have been less harsh? In my opinion, by simply giving players an option to show their losses. The win percentages showing on the all-time leaderboards in my opinion is absolutely essential. We cannot judge players on wins alone. Some players on the 2v2 all-time leaderboard spent years and years getting better, to get amazing all-time 2v2 percentages. Only now to generally be overlooked to those with a higher win count. Some of us have learned the most from our losses and they serve as a symbol as to why we play so seriously. Players should at least be given an option to show their losses and if the developers are completely against that idea then I would seriously like an explanation that is backed by a solid argument. Harassment certainly isn’t one because as said earlier “…what doesn’t cause harassment in EpicDuel?” and of course a moderation team that is trained to deal with in-game issues such as harassment.

Well the entire text above pretty much sums up my generalization on the progression of EpicDuel. Feel free to contribute and discuss how you feel the game is progressing and detriments to its progression. This is not a complaint thread, and if you have any please be constructive with them. The game cannot grow from emotional attacks, but it can grow from constructive criticism.

< Message edited by Variation -- 4/14/2015 7:56:07 >
Post #: 1
4/14/2015 8:44:01   
comicalbike
Member

well i think the progress is slow and steady that's OK by me
Epic  Post #: 2
4/14/2015 8:53:23   
Satafou
Member

The fact you mentioned the community as a factor that limits Epicduel to it's full potential is very interesting.


The community within Epicduel has been a problem for years, even in beta. The fact that people who have a high rank constantly get flamed in-game is ridiculous. That alone further emphases that the community is an issue that shouldn't be taken lightly. Also i find it highly amusing that people feel the need to flame people who npc, when the all time 1vs1 leaderboard, i.e the players who people arguably admired the most on Epicduel aren't flamed by their extreme use of npcs, some who have done well over 80k npcs and that is without exaggeration. Not to mention npcs now don't even add to your 1vs1 record like they use to, despite people acting like it does.

It is issues such as these which does indeed limit Epicduel to progressing at a much faster pace. If we as a community cannot stop being so "fixated on solutions that could stab other members of the EpicDuel Community in the back." Can we really come up with solutions that can actually help fix this game one step at a time?


I am also a believer in the importance of win ratio's on any PVP game. Win ratio's aren't just for show to separate the community. They are a vital aspect of EVERY PVP game and that is an undeniable fact. Win ratio's for each battle mode can tell you a lot about a player and this is not only important for knowing your team mates strengths and weaknesses in 2vs2, but also your opponent strengths and weaknesses. Although there were small minority of players who did perhaps receive some abuse for having a bad ratio. At the end of the day it's ultimately their own error. Everyone can improve their win ratio's over time and self-improvement even by a drastic percentage, i know this because I've done it. However now we have people flaming players who have generally good win ratio's and people who have mediocre win ratio's exclaiming that they are the best player Epicduel has ever had. When win ratio's were about they couldn't of done these acts as they'd simply be told the truth otherwise. Like Variation has already mentioned the all time 2vs2 leaderboards, do have an issue without the display of win ratio's. People can just assume that all because someone has more wins that they are self-righteously the better player. Heck i've even seen 2 all time 2vs2 players argue because one with a 64% ratio claimed they were better than a guy with a 76% ratio because they had 1000 more wins.

As you've all most likely figured out, the community actually links to almost everything that happens in Epicduel. I would strongly advise that in order for this game to progress at a much faster and stable pace, the re-introduction of win ratio's is a must, as well as some serious action to be taken as to how we can destroy all these barriers separating players as the game just limits itself otherwise.





< Message edited by Satafou -- 4/14/2015 9:01:10 >
Post #: 3
4/14/2015 9:24:05   
comicalbike
Member

well Satafou you must remember its just a fun game you play with what they give you and use it accordingly
Epic  Post #: 4
4/14/2015 10:12:54   
Mother1
Member

With a mute button in play I really think they should bring back ratio's or give players the option to show off their ratio's. The main reason IIRC for them removing them was because People good ratio or bad (but mostly bad) were getting harassed by others as well as the staff hoping this would make things easier for some players.

However when this happened not only didn't this happen but now we have players flaming others due to who has more wins.

While the game is meant to be fun, some players have fun being competitive and having bragging rights which was something that was taken away from them due to some immature players.

Epic  Post #: 5
4/14/2015 16:51:58   
The Jop
Member

I think ED players are still way too competitive for that to be a good idea. They already argue over who has more wins, higher rank, more fame, higher rating, better equipment, etc. The mute button could help with the situation, but it could be entirely avoided by not even showing ratios like now.

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/15/2015 16:31:03   
zion
Member

Well the game is officially ending development so for now only expect some user-created content and stories/missions from now on.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
4/15/2015 16:47:26   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

The EpicDuel admins Titan, Nightwraith, Charfade, and Rabblefroth will remain active in EpicDuel development, they'll be providing a full ED roadmap in a DN post tomorrow!

Taken from BioBeast FAQ comments, and they have also tweeted the same thing yesterday.
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
4/16/2015 4:34:01   
zion
Member

I'm sorry but they are misusing the term "development." If the devs are really working on Biobeasts full time, then Omega is the final phase of ED = No more development. Yes you will see some tweaks here and there and tons of User-generated content from now on... but many dead video games have active modding communities, it doesn't mean the game is still being developed.
I have to agree with other long-time players. ED Omega did not improve the game so interest in the game has dropped dramatically. This game has intelligent players and we find it hard to believe that user drop-off is due to widespread changes in the video game industry. Browser games and mobiles games are just different. People still play browser games. This game only needs a thousand active players online to work very well (as we saw in Beta/Gamma). Without that player base, the matching mechanic is generally unfair and hence the vicious cycle of a low user base.
Well, I guess I am happy for the Devs that they weren't just outright fired and have a chance to reinvent themselves as Unity devs - best of luck to them! When Unity-ED comes out eventually I will give it a try...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
4/19/2015 14:27:51   
Melissa4Bella
AmeSylph


 I'd like to take the time to say a few things about this thread.

Firstly, outstanding back-and-forth between everyone who has participated so far! You have kept the "asdfghjkl" out of your posts and been extremely mature and constructive in your posts!

Secondly, there are excellent thoughts and opinions in every post. Not to single anyone out in, but this particular opinion really deserves to be in the spotlight:

quote:

it's bad practice to be uncivilized while having arguments in a thread like this. Personal attacks aren't needed in this thread. If people have to resort to using them here then EpicDuel is surely the least of their problems.


BRAVO!

I'm very proud of the constructive maturity that is happening in this thread, and I hope the thread lives much longer and doesn't slip further down the GD page. I know that it seems that forum moderation focusses too much on removing and chaining down topics and posts. However, we also like to showcase when discussion happens the "right" way, too!

Well done, ED players. Well done!

< Message edited by Melissa4Bella -- 4/19/2015 14:28:39 >
AQ DF  Post #: 10
4/19/2015 16:02:04   
Lord Machaar
Member

Time to ruin this overly "Civilized" post haha. Just kidding. No I'm not. Hmm, probably I am.

Anyways on topic:

•Do you feel EpicDuel is making progress? Why or why not? Yes, but sadly it varies from steady to very slow. First thing that gets affected with the slow progression is clearly variety. When the game keeps same classes for over 6 years, that's something, I'm not saying it's a bad thing in terms of balance, but in terms of variety it is a bad thing. Now the whole game variety, in battle precisely is based on cores right now, it's the only thing within the reach of devs to make in order to add more variety to game since other parameters are fixed (classes for example, we are struggling to fix them), and sadly cores are hard to make according to devs themselves, so I have a question for devs, Why Cores?, if you already know it's a hard path, making 1 core each 6 months, well that's something bad considering that cores are the only thing within your hands that you can make to add more variety to the game, since coreless weappons are useless unlike before and classes are well studied now, maybe a class overhaul? because adding more classes will be a disaster.

•Would it be acceptable for the developers to alienate non-balance content to focus on balance? Even if they have different teams that each specialize in different fields? Some future decisive moves need devs to alienate for, enhancements removal for example, it is critical to the point where NW had to drop his pencil and bring a calculator. Because frankly NW's art means nothing in an imbalanced PVP environement, it is what we see now, coreless weapons are totally useless, except if you are looking for cosmetics. Vice Versa isn't right because it's not really necessary for Titan to drop his calculator and draw some weapons, since 1- There is lack of programmers. 2- We have tons of guest artists while sadly there aren't guest programmers.

•Would you prefer the developers taking more time to develop releases to ensure better quality of EpicDuel? Depends on the definition of "more time", because sadly it means 2 months for devs. If it's 1 week, why not. As you can clearly see, it's been more than 2 weeks saying that strenght builds need a fix to bring variety back to game, atleast a game formed of two builds strenght and focus, is better than being formed by one build, anything happened? nothing. I won't bring the biobeasts card but anyways, titan says better think twice before cutting once, but anyways just remember while calmly and slowly thinking twice at obvious things that your game is not sadly in its best shapes. Probably they will keep thinking twice, and three times, and four times, and five times, and in the end everything gets secrewed up and that's what really gets me sad, knowing that even thinking twice at X obvious thing, they still don't do it right, what after thinking once?. Ofcourse as NW announced next balance patchnote is coming 8th, which means 2 weeks from now, and 2 weeks since we first talked about the flaws in PVP, precisely strenght builds, making it one month, I hope month is plenty enough for you Mr Titan to think twice, I just hope you don't secrew it up after 1 month + of thinking.

•Were there any changes in the design of EpicDuel that you believe could've been done better? If so what were they? What do you believe could alter those design changes to become more beneficial to not only you, but even to some of the players around you? Without thinking. Ranking system. It's now so rigid. Leveling up system was and still flexible. When players complained for having nothing to do after reaching level cap, something I also have been through when I was pretty active, devs responded to that, but sadly that wish turned into a nightmare since after a short time its implantation, you can already see. 1- Imbalance. 2- Players reached cap ranks with nothing to do. Well atleast they made a great move and added 40 ranks making them 100 ranks in total, you think that was possible without a balance? possible without implementing the underdog mode which is under construction? Absolutely not. Something that was never thought of when we had leveling up system. Levels were added with 0 thoughts about balance. Now if you want to add 1 rank, you need to think about the outcomes, sadly because from the ground up they made a mistake by considering that ranks give 0 advantage, and a rank 1 player = rank 60 player.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 4/19/2015 17:58:45 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 11
4/24/2015 8:37:51   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 doesn't seem like they care about fun anymore
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 12
4/24/2015 10:25:10   
Squrwogrona
Member

If it weren't a mod who said that ED community has matured, I would've thought hm, nice trolling there. Sadly, one mature thread does not make the community suddenly great, but it is a step nonetheless.

Now, with user created content, I think we will see less and less promos, so maybe the biobeast promo will be the last one (in a sense that it will take +- a year for another one). Also, ranks expansion in summer may/may not bring more opness, balance issues etc.; it is still too vague what will be eventually changed, but there will be at least something new to do for a while.
So yea, I'm mildly excited for the "future" of ED, despite knowing it is considered dead now.
Epic  Post #: 13
4/24/2015 11:34:33   
SouL Prisoner
Member

I just wish they would let players have fun like the old times. That's all.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
4/24/2015 13:08:57   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I second that. I wish theyd return flags and I am hoping that after these wars that flags will return. The player base will indefinitely shoot up drastically.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 15
4/24/2015 13:39:06   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

•Do you feel EpicDuel is making progress? Why or why not?

There is not much progress anymore since Omega. The name of this phase
says it all: Omega = The end. There are only small adjustments every few months.
The majority of the weekly updates is about repeating old patterns in new
costumes like the Dread Wars, armors, weapons, and missions. Also some
pseudo balance changes that never do lead to more balance. As example
the Strenght/Strike problem does exist since Alpha. So balance changes do
only mean that power does get rotatet between the classes and builds every
few weeks.

Its obvious that AE is done with EDs evolution as the probability for it to rise
again in player base is small. They seem to be satisfied with the steady cash
amount that they earn with it and its unlikely that they will invest much money
into development to change the status quo. The end of Flash support by Adobe
then has sealed the fate of ED. From what I did red over the years is that the
possibilities with Flash are very limited as its focus does lie on animated vector
graphics and it maybe was never meant to be a game platform.
No more support then does also mean no more progress.

Perfect balance is not possible in ED with those many classes and skills but the
devs would do good to still focus on it as PVP is the core. I would also like to
see graphic revamps. Alot old and player created weapons just are ugly like hell.
Peronally im not a friend of the empowerment politic for free player graphic
designers as the quality often is poor. There should be more quality management
by the professional graphic artists aka Nightwraith and Charfade to ensure quality
instead of quantity.

The revamped Central Station not really was what this zone should look like as
the base weakness of this zone is its tunnel layout. It does not have an attraction
hotspot by structural design. This could be a bar or a big passenger waiting hall.
For some unknown reason Junker, Naomi and VendBot had became community
hotspots after the Oz phase in earlier game phases. Those are three while there
is the phenomenon that the hotspot at Junker is occupied by brazil players.
All these three hotspots have nothing special to offer by design. The important
community part of ED still has alot space to progress. This does also include
factions which are the stepchild of ED since years.

As conclusion I hopefully was able to show you some fields where progression
is possible.

_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 16
4/24/2015 14:48:17   
8x
Member

I feel like it's been slowly going downhill ever since they decided that it would be a smart idea to add enchantments to armors, guns and auxiliaries.
Epic  Post #: 17
5/13/2015 18:50:31   
Introduce
Member

it's a stratergy game, you're meant to show off your smart brain. now it's just showing off ur begging points or ur fast win str build
Epic  Post #: 18
5/13/2015 19:51:29   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins


 Please don't post in dead threads (2+ weeks of no activity.)

Locked.

Thanks,
Battle Elf
ED GD Archknight
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
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