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dueling solutions

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3/22/2016 17:13:46   
newtena
Member

here are a couple things I am going to suggest.
balancing, and a way for sold weapons to co exist with normal weapons.

players leave the game because there are powerful weapons that they don't have a chance of winning against. to solve this there need to be regulations. that's why every thing need to rely on one source of energy. the more powerful the skil,
the more energy it requires to use. payer gets energy per turn.
it is the answer to all balancing problems. it just needs some tweaking from there. then you will need to know how much a skill will cost and at what level.

the game is less strategy and more straight forward. to make it more of a strategy game you need to make the goal harder by lowering all the player's offensive points to atleast 32. this invites room for strategy. which I will tell you about. for strategy create advantages.
create advantages for every skill. these are the tools that will help win the game. this way players can make a comeback. it is not about brute force its about outsmarting the enemy.

I learned this from necromancy. it is a well balance turn base game.

< Message edited by newtena -- 3/25/2016 14:56:40 >
Post #: 1
3/22/2016 19:54:14   
Xendran
Member

This is why I've been encouraging them to massively increase the skillset of classes, and allow more customization.
And for sure, the match length in epicduel is far too short, which both causes an inability for strategy and counterplay to occur, and causes RNG events to often be extremely skewed in each battle, despite averaging out over the course of many battles.

This offsets a lot of the need for super-strict numerical balance by simply giving each class weaknesses, specialized tools to cover some of those weaknesses, and then true weakness that they struggle to get around.
Then you look at the different kind of matchups that are available to different stat and class loadouts, and give them whatever tools are appropriate and necessary for them to compete, while maintaining the theme of the class.
If you have a sufficiently large pool of skills, building your character becomes much more like building a deck of cards around synergy. Right now its more "Oh im X stat which means i have to do Y with my skills" instead of "Im doing X stat, and fighting a lot of build Y, so i believe skill Z will both effectively counter a dangerous part of build Y while being synergistic with my stat build" .

Every build in epicduel plays almost identical to one another currently, especially given the low number of skills and how high of a percentage of the total tools available to your class you can have going at once, and the poor efficiency curves.

Then there's the whole broken fundamental mathematics behind damage reduction and multiplication, but that's a different topic.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 3/22/2016 19:57:58 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 2
3/23/2016 11:53:56   
newtena
Member

i was about to share information and ideas that can make the game fair and richer. being how i am not apart of the company i cannot give you my idea. but i will say this. players will get tired of the same old thing. losing in epic duel and fighting cpu's for things that
does not matter to them in adventure quest worlds. haven't you?

< Message edited by newtena -- 3/24/2016 12:16:59 >
Post #: 3
3/24/2016 13:38:18   
Elloisoul
Member

Make everyone fight blind on batle you cannot see enemy skills and stats you can only see players stats out of battle or after them
Post #: 4
3/24/2016 16:45:59   
Xendran
Member

quote:

i was about to share information and ideas that can make the game fair and richer. being how i am not apart of the company i cannot give you my idea.


If you ever spend any time in the game development industry you will quickly realize (and be told many many times if you try to be an "idea guy") that ideas are cheap, and 99.9% of the time are completely worthless on their own.
Everybody thinks they have a great idea. The skill comes in being able to execute the idea, which is where the highly intensive role of Game Designer comes into play (and ED does not have a game designer, which is why they are unable to properly execute good ideas).
This is a role that requires years of experience in all aspects related to the experience of a game. Psychology, religion, world culture, mathematics, balance, etc. as well as years of experience deconstructing games down to their absolute cores, and fully understanding the mechanics, mathematics, reasoning, intended effects, real effects, intended consequences and unintended consequences of various aspects of the game.
You also need to understand all aspects related to teaching players mechanics in various ways, introducing them in appropriate times, making them relevant and thematically fitting. You need direct contact with all of your team members to have a full understanding of exactly the kind of experience you are trying to craft.

And that's just the start.
You need all of the above skills, combined with practical experience applying these, many iterations and states of refinement on all of your concepts during and after the process of fleshing them out, adjusting balance each step along the way accordingly, etc.

You need all of these skills, as well as an extremely logical and analytical mindset, but also without being hindered by or locked into this mindset. You also need strong intuition and the ability to 'feel out' aspects of the math that you may not want following perfectly strict balance, things that are opportunity costs rather than resource costs, etc. (This is part of where needing knowledge of Psychology comes into play).
Without these things ideas are nothing, and EpicDuel has proven that over the last 7 years.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 3/24/2016 16:54:36 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 5
3/24/2016 18:04:06   
newtena
Member

i did not say my ideas are worthwhile. notice i said "CAN make the game fair and richer". i agree they did a great job.

< Message edited by newtena -- 3/24/2016 19:26:04 >
Post #: 6
3/24/2016 18:29:08   
Xendran
Member

My main reason for the post isn't to say your idea isn't worthwhile (if implemented well, it very well could be very worthwhile), more to emphasize if you do decide to get into the games industry you don't want to hold yourself back by being hesitant to share ideas with the rest of your team, and some people to get feedback. As well as to emphasize that if you want to be the one to bring these ideas to life, there are certain kinds of knowledge that you'll want to acquire, or if you do not feel that you want to be the one to necessarily implement the ideas but you are part of a team, to allow the designer freedom to change and refine aspects of it as they see fit.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 3/24/2016 18:31:03 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
3/24/2016 19:26:22   
newtena
Member

one of the toughest and most important part is designing the basis of the game. how the players argue their skills to victory.
i did not see you mentioned it in your comment.
Post #: 8
3/25/2016 16:46:58   
Xendran
Member

Everything i just said applies to designing every aspect of a game, including designing the basis of your core systems.
I also said that the things I listed are just the start of what it takes to be a good game designer.

I AM a game designer, I know fully well how having flawed core mechanics will ruin your game. EpicDuel is a perfect example of a game that has mechanics that are flawed in a way that make it literally impossible to balance properly.

When i said "Without these things ideas are nothing, and EpicDuel has proven that over the last 7 years" I mean that EpicDuel has proven that despite having great ideas, the game still managed to fail because the people doing the design do not have the specialization or training to understand how to implement their ideas well. EpicDuel has not done a good job whatsoever in managing its systems, and it's entirely because they have people who are not specialized in game design trying to do a job they never trained for.

You wouldn't let an artist who thinks they know programming because they've used programs in the past write your code.
In the same vein, you shouldn't let a programmer (or in EDs case, two programmers and two artists) who thinks they know game design because they've played games in the past design your game systems.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 3/25/2016 16:53:22 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 9
3/26/2016 10:27:48   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins


 This thread has ventured off-topic and as such I am locking it. There is merit to discussing game design and suggesting how to improve the mechanics of EpicDuel, but ED Balance is not the appropriate place for such discussion.

Please stay on topic in the future.

Thanks,
Battle Elf
AE Forum Moderator
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
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