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=AQ= Golden Giftbox Cross-game Extravaganza II

 
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4/11/2022 12:44:27   
CHAIML
Member


Golden Giftbox Cross-game Extravaganza II
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Tag, you're it. ~Anim

< Message edited by AnimalKing -- 4/11/2022 13:21:15 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 1
4/12/2022 8:04:24   
Sapphire
Member

Really, the GGB shops could use maybe around a 50% recycling. Many bland, older mainstays could likely be given their rights of passage and shown the door. Bring in all new stuff. Maybe a better approach would be to take away some a little at a time with each GGB-based release since the workload for something like that might be a bit much.


I think an issue that really manifests itself (no pun, considering the Manifest items there are so utterly bad) is when a very bad item ends up in a better shop than it should belong in. It only serves as a waste of time to create them.
Post #: 2
4/13/2022 11:44:48   
Dr Disrespect
Helpful!


I'm really happy that Queen Aegea made it in. Hopefully it's an armour. Hyped for it!
Post #: 3
4/14/2022 10:41:25   
EternalDragonX
Member

Anyone know what the planned stat changes are gonna be?
Post #: 4
4/14/2022 11:16:47   
Lv 1000
Member


Beyond what has already been released, we don’t know any specifics other than that they’re working on it.
Post #: 5
4/14/2022 13:42:50   
  The Hollow
AQ Lead


This is looking like a Friday release for the GGBs. We have hit some snags on the ongoing stat overhaul, and unfortunately there will not be any major changes or updates this week. The team is continuing to work on this massive project and there should be an update soon-ish... hopefully before the end of April but I'll keep you folks updated.
AQ  Post #: 6
4/14/2022 17:18:33   
Macho Man
Member

No worries Hollow, I'm just glad that the stat rework is being worked on. Part 2 of the GGB crossover should be great anyways!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
4/15/2022 14:56:43   
  The Hollow
AQ Lead


6 New Golden Giftbox prizes have arrived!

Ultra Rare:
Prometheus Armor
Call/Summon Queen Aegea Spells

Rare:
Orpheum Bow
M/F Prometheus Faces
AQ  Post #: 8
4/15/2022 15:18:49   
E.Matrix
Member
 

Cant seem to find the Queen Aegea spells in the shop
Post #: 9
4/15/2022 15:22:20   
PD
Member
 

Tried it out, Orpheus bow is great, but I'd really love it if we'd get some functional clone (or even the original) of Everslumber back. Maybe one day.

Also not sure if this is the right time or place, but we really should have a discussion on re-organizing the GGB's. As I said before it really does seem to feel like too many items are in the UR shop, while the common shop feels almost unused these days. A lot of Rare Items are stronger than UR items, and a lot of UR items have long either been power crept or are just there for no apparently good reason.

Also on a tangential note - it's been noted that these kinds of releases are here to "keep the lights on" so to speak. But from what it sounds like from various corners, the early feedback doesn't appear to look that great (except for the bow), and few if any people are going to buy these items. Perhaps we'll wait for the info subs and I will hold my judgement before making a choice to pull the trigger, but I can't help but feel if these kinds of releases are actually warranted or not given how much risk is involved. You can make premium-only releases like this, and then just have nobody buy the items if they're not appealing enough. Or you could and it just makes the already apparent problem of power creep even worse, in the worst way possible because it ties power creep (and power in general) to premium items. Like what happens with Virophage (if anyone even wants to remember that at this point) when nobody bought it, but that was the sole release of that weekly cycle. All that time spent, for little to no payoff. It may be time to think about an alternative monetization model...

@dr. Disrespect: Looks like it's out now.

< Message edited by PD -- 4/15/2022 15:53:21 >
Post #: 10
4/15/2022 15:25:08   
Dr Disrespect
Helpful!


Queen Aegea spells aren't out yet.
Post #: 11
4/15/2022 15:48:59   
Rafiq von den Vielen
Member

I'm going to call it: Orpheum Bow is going to become a must buy for any FD player. Right now.

That sleep has some absolutely crazy effectivity.
Post #: 12
4/15/2022 20:21:16   
Lv 1000
Member


Unofficial Info-Subs:
Weapon
Armour
Guest

Post #: 13
4/15/2022 21:44:32   
Bu Kek Siansu
Member


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402199
quote:

ORIGINAL: PD

Also not sure if this is the right time or place, but we really should have a discussion on re-organizing the GGB's. As I said before it really does seem to feel like too many items are in the UR shop, while the common shop feels almost unused these days. A lot of Rare Items are stronger than UR items, and a lot of UR items have long either been power crept or are just there for no apparently good reason.


If I'm not mistaken, they cannot just move a GGB item to another shop,
but (perhaps) they'll take a look to see what adjustments need to be made.
Feel free to correct me if I made a mistake, I sincerely apologise...

< Message edited by Bu Kek Siansu -- 4/15/2022 21:51:32 >
Post #: 14
4/15/2022 21:55:24   
Lv 1000
Member


Yeah moving items between shops would be problematic, the number of potential refunded boxes would be huge.
It's better to make adjustment to items that are found lacking.
Post #: 15
4/17/2022 12:18:41   
Rafiq von den Vielen
Member

TBH I have to agree. We just have way too many items in the GGB right now. What I would suggest regarding that is as follows:

-) Do something like a rotation for the bloodzerkers/bloodmages.
There are way too many of these in the GGB at the same time which clutters up space. I would handle it similar to the Void rotations where during one cycle of GGB, one element of bloodmage + bloodzerker is available, and the next month another, and so on. Perhaps circle the elemental wheel from different starting points so that there is never the same element in the GGB (for example starting with Quenching Bloodzerker and Luminous Bloodmage, and so on).

-) Reduce clutter.
By quite a bit, too. Below is a list of items that I can see getting the boot from the GGB sooner than later (perhaps giving them slight tweaks for increased usability, or make them sort of seasonal like the Deatharrows cats or Predatory Vamp/Savage Were formes) sorted by rarity.

Common:
Eggzooka (after Grenwog perhaps)
Star Sabres
Blade of Janus
13th Mask
Summon Icemaster Yeti

Rare:
Fresh Asteracae (seasonal around mother's day, maaybe)
Winged Sapphire Staff
Bonebreaker Berserker Axe
SeaSaw
Relic Staff
Blood Storm
Dark Dragon Staff
Deathbringer
Golden Dragon Spear
Monolith Mace
Perfectly Balanced Blade
Grenwog Lance
Galactic Void Katana
Caden's Wrath
Twisted Gauntlet of Xano (I'm not a fan of Twisted versions staying permanently altogether but in this case: Either the Light or Fire one stays, we don't need two)
Taxing Cutlass (same as Gauntlets, we don't need two. I'd remove the Nulgath version myself)
Paladin/Necromancer Cavalry Lances
Hunter's Darklaw/Slayer's Lyfang
Twisted Star Sabres
Tiger Cannon (CNY seasonal at best)
Headless Horseman (if Human Fisher went, so can this)
Darkovian Bulwark
Call Mana Bat
Demomorphosis
Call/Summon Fiend of Nulgath (see Taxing Cutlass. We don't need two.)
Call/Summon Mogsterio
Gecko Chomp
Taladosian Pendant
Gold-Hungry Mimics
Infernal Android
Mini Nulgath
Steam Trobble

UR:
Ceremonial Legion Blade
Runed Legion Broadsword
Star Sabres / Switch Sabres
Celtic Cleaver
Cleaving Dragon Blade
Nulgath's Wrath
Golden Paragon weapons
Voidsplinter Tether/Sunderer (essentially the same thing except different weapon types)
Galaxythe
Ragnarok
Hunger
Legion Dragon Blade of Nulgath
Dragon Blade of Nulgath
Arcane Cutlasses (cut down on them. Six are too many.)
Atrea Dream weapons
Bonebreaker Berserker
Revenant (Seriously, this needs to go unless you're leaving it in as an inside joke of how bad an armor can possibly be)
Light Lord's Cleric
Dwarven Warrior
Paragon and Golden Paragon plates
Blacksmith Garb
Fiend of Vergill
Chaos Slayer clerics (Perhaps a rotation as I suggested with bloodzerkers)
Bards of War (seasonalize them)
Paladin and Necromancer Cavalries
Twisted Dragonhide
GPS (rotate between the defensive and offensive versions perhaps)
Golden Paragon Protector
All of the booster moglins.
Kiss of the Angel of Darkness
Pygmy Zombie Groupies
Tree Troll
Silas
Twisted Infernal Djinn
Lust and Envy (seasonal, snugglefest)
Nekomancer Deady Empress Doll
Post #: 16
4/17/2022 15:19:41   
Bu Kek Siansu
Member


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=22402252
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafiq von den Vielen

-) Do something like a rotation for the bloodzerkers/bloodmages.
There are way too many of these in the GGB at the same time which clutters up space. I would handle it similar to the Void rotations where during one cycle of GGB, one element of bloodmage + bloodzerker is available, and the next month another, and so on. Perhaps circle the elemental wheel from different starting points so that there is never the same element in the GGB (for example starting with Quenching Bloodzerker and Luminous Bloodmage, and so on).

-) Reduce clutter.
By quite a bit, too. Below is a list of items that I can see getting the boot from the GGB sooner than later (perhaps giving them slight tweaks for increased usability, or make them sort of seasonal like the Deatharrows cats or Predatory Vamp/Savage Were formes) sorted by rarity.

Twisted Gauntlet of Xano (I'm not a fan of Twisted versions staying permanently altogether but in this case: Either the Light or Fire one stays, we don't need two)

Taxing Cutlass (same as Gauntlets, we don't need two. I'd remove the Nulgath version myself)

Voidsplinter Tether/Sunderer (essentially the same thing except different weapon types)

Arcane Cutlasses (cut down on them. Six are too many.)

Revenant (Seriously, this needs to go unless you're leaving it in as an inside joke of how bad an armor can possibly be)

Chaos Slayer clerics (Perhaps a rotation as I suggested with bloodzerkers)
Bards of War (seasonalize them)
Paladin and Necromancer Cavalries
Twisted Dragonhide
GPS (rotate between the defensive and offensive versions perhaps)

All of the booster moglins.


Totally disagreed! Whenever others really need to buy it anytime,
they have to wait until it's available similar to the Void rotations or during one cycle of GGB
or circle the elemental wheel from different starting points? It would NOT be a good idea.

Scaling base which doesn't clutter up space as in the past.

Others might want to buy it anytime while you or some of us think it needs to leave.

What you or some of us think it's a bad item does NOT mean others think it's a bad item.

What you or some of us think it needs to leave does NOT mean others think it needs to leave.

However, let just the staff members take a look to see what adjustments need to be made.

< Message edited by Bu Kek Siansu -- 4/20/2022 19:37:01 >
Post #: 17
4/17/2022 18:09:36   
PD
Member
 

Couple thoughts:

1. Don't like rotational items in general. We already have enough issues with builds and items not being readily accessible. Rotationals make things worse for accessibility purposes. If there's a lot of items in the shop, getting rid of items isn't the answer. Improving the existing shop experience is. Rotating items is gatekeeping and takes away elements of the game for everyone who don't have those items. There's already been commentary about how the Shop UI could use a few updates and tweaks to improve the shop experience on this end. Also unless it's automated rotational items are effectively permanently unobtainable unless people actively remember to ask for them to come back. If nobody remembers and nobody says anything it's effectively as good as gone forever. The fact that we've had a variant of a variant because people forgot about the first one (Gauntlet of Xano) should have been indicative of how problematic this is.

1.1. Though if we really want to start with clutter issues, perhaps a good idea is to figure out how to consolidate two items that are the same. IE, the Call vs. Summon versions of the same spell or MP vs. SP versions of the same spell. That should save at least half the space while still remaining accessible for everyone. Perhaps have a "general entry" displayed and when you buy it, you have a second dialogue/preview asking you if you want to buy the SP/MP version of that spell/summon.

2. Initially, I suggested that we move the items around as I felt that would be less work than adjusting the items, but I'm not totally familiar with this stuff so it may actually be the case that moving the items around the shop is more work. Even though adjusting the items may be easier, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the UR shop is disproportionately large in comparison to the other shops. Though we may need another different discussion around this. On refunds though I think if we move items up (ex. R -> UR) it shouldn't be necessary (this should be considered value surplus), though items downward (UR -> rare) may be necessary for compensations.

3. While I tend to agree valuation/opinions of items are subjective, unfortunately because they are paid items GGB's inevitably have discussions of universal worths and not. There really should be some kind of standardization in regards to which items belong in which tiers. We already have this for common items (No MC items) but beyond that there doesn't seem to be a really good dividing line between what merits UR from R items power-wise. In theory, the UR items *should* have stronger effects because their availability is lesser, but a lot of items just seem to violate that rule in either direction (too weak for tier or too strong for tier). Though again maybe we ought to have a separate discussion for this.

@Robyn: Agreed. Though at this point I have started another thread because we're touching on something that I think at this point is needing its own specific discussion

< Message edited by PD -- 4/17/2022 20:40:04 >
Post #: 18
4/17/2022 19:57:01   
RobynJoanne
Member
 

I agree with PD on this matter. I also deeply dislike rotational items for the very same reasons. I have been waiting over two years for Festive Mason Form to return, and I will have to continue to wait until 2024 for it to come back. I would not want others to suffer from the same issue. There are already plenty of items that have left with no guarantee of coming back any time soon. Why make it worse for a relatively subjective problem like clutter, especially when we have a search function? This is especially true for core items like Bard of War, which FD players have begged to return permanently for years. No one wants to wait months to years to complete their character.

Moving items to another shop would likely require the help of Captain Rhubarb. If he is getting involved, I would rather he help make the API provide more information so that we can have more detailed resources in-game and outside of it. A major problem with AQ is the relative lack of information provided to players, and Captain Rhubarb can work his magic to help with that. This is, in my opinion, a far more impactful change. This is, of course, just one example of something he can do. I know that he laid the groundwork for Craftin years ago, and he could continue his work on that if he had more free time. Regardless of what he chooses to do, I just think changing GGB shops is relatively small-impact work for someone whose work is so important.

We do know that the staff has moved items from the R shop to the UR shop and vice-versa in the past, usually due to mistakes with tiering returning items. The staff has always compensated those who paid a UR box for R items, but I'm unsure if this is something that can be easily done universally or if it is something that is done on an individual basis. The latter would just take too much developer time.

All of this is mere speculation, so I'd rather pivot to something more rewarding that PD brought up: the implementation of general guidelines for where items go. As PD noted, C GGBs are all non-MC'd items, but the difference between R and UR GGBs is far more nebulous. One thing I have noted recently is that armors are predominantly UR GGBs now, which makes sense since armors are the most important items in the game. Furthermore, many great pets are R GGBs. Perhaps, we could have it be based on item slot. The Bloodblades are top-tier weapons and only cost R GGBs, so they almost invalidate any weapon that costs a UR GGB. We could make most if not all future MC'd weapons cost a R GGB for example. This is just a very basic idea, and I think we should be more specific about the conditions anyway. I have also had the idea of more unique effects being limited to the UR GGB shop. I will use the Bloodblades as examples again. The Bloodblades are "just" the top-tier option for damage, so UR GGB weapons could be differentiated by having more special mechanics. Limit Buster is an example of something very unique. No other item that I can recall lets you unleash a skill by taking damage.

I am hoping we can just open up this discussion to more people, as it is indeed something worth exploring. GGBs, for better or worse, are a major source of items for players. Thus, there should be more guidelines on how items are tiered to make it so people feel that they have received worthy compensation for the cost.

< Message edited by RobynJoanne -- 4/17/2022 20:03:47 >
Post #: 19
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