Gateless
Member
|
Addendum 1
Proposed Solution to the Initiative Issue
Here, I will present a "straight forward" solution to Example 1 in Addressing the Bigger Picture: Player-Monster Asymmetry in Game Balance Changes and its Implications. While this proposed solution does not suddenly make monster stats sensible, it does, in my opinion, directly address the Initiative issue in as ideal of a way as intuitively and mathematically possible. And does so without having to touch monsters. Bare with me, because this is about to get a little complicated.
As you may recall from its brief mention in Addressing the Bigger Picture: Player-Monster Asymmetry in Game Balance Changes and its Implications, the Initiative formula is (LUK + STR/2 + INT/2 + DEX/2)/2. To avoid confusion, from this point forward I will be referring to this part of the calculation as the Initiative "formula" and the rest of the 2 calculations which determine whether the Player or the Monster goes first, as the Initiative "calculations".
First, let's establish how the game determines who goes first. The values of the Initiative formula and any Initiative boost/s is summed; this is done on both the Player side and the Monster side. Then, the game adds a randomly generated integer between 1 and 100 to the Player side Initiative calculation as well as the Monster side Initiative calculation. Whichever side ends up with a larger total value, wins the first turn Initiative.
This effectively implies that the Player's Initiative formula + Initiative boosts sum must be greater than the Monster's Initiative formula sum by the max value of the randomly generated integer + 1 (i.e. 101), in order to guarantee first turn Initiative.
—
The following is a mathematical representation of the currently implemented Initiative calculation for a single side (i.e. either the Player or the Monster side). As it will be necessary to establish a convention for the sake of clarity, due to this proposal involving changes to the Initiative calculations, and not just the Initiative formula.
[(LUK + STR/2 + INT/2 + DEX/2)/2] + B + R
Where B is either: 0 if the Player has no Initiative boosts, 105 if the Player has 1 Initiative boost (i.e. either Ambush Potion or an Initiative Boost armor), or 210 if the Player has 2 Initiative boosts (i.e. both).
And R is a randomly generated integer satisfying 1<=R<=100.
The solution I am proposing, is to modify the aforementioned calculation to the following:
[(LUK + MAX[STR, INT, DEX])/2] + B + R
Where B is either: 0 if the Player has no Initiative boosts, 63 if the Player has 1 Initiative boost (i.e. either Ambush Potion or an Initiative Boost armor), or 126 if the Player has 2 Initiative boosts (i.e. both).
And R is a randomly generated integer satisfying 1<=R<=62.
—
The proposed Initiative calculation, when compared to the original, has a few additional steps:
1. First, capping the Mainstat sum in the Initiative formula to the highest Mainstat. It is necessary specifically to cap this sum to the highest Mainstat rather than simply 250, in order to account for standardly scaled Monsters at Level 150 having 275 points in their Primary Stat. For more context, a standardly scaled Monster will have 275 points in their Primary Stat (usually STR), 250 points in their Secondary Stat (i.e. DEX), and 225 points in their Tertiary Stat (this is most commonly END or LUK).
2. Next, normalizing the value by which the variables in the Initiative formula are scaled. In the case of Mainstats, their scaling is modified from 0.5 to simply 1 (i.e. no scaling). This step in conjunction with step 1 is intended to allow both the Player side and the Monster side Initiative formulas to reach the same final value of 250, assuming the Monster has 275 Primary Stat and 225 LUK (Secondary Stat is ignored in the formula due to being lower than Primary Stat) and the Player has 250 Mainstat and 250 LUK.
3. Finally, the value provided by Initiative boosts, as well as the max value of the randomly generated integer, are adjusted to 250/4 (i.e. 62.5). With the value provided by Initiative boosts being rounded up to 63, and the max value of the randomly generated integer being rounded down to 62. This ensures the most reasonable and intuitive behavior regarding Initiative for the Player, as I will explain below.
—
The changes to the Initiative calculation proposed here do not purely make Initiative easier to win, rather these changes make stat investment for Initiative actually intuitive and heuristical for the Player. Furthermore, the changes proposed here are more sensible compared to the other more simplistic changes I have theorized, which purely make Initiative easier to win. But either produce non-intuitive implications relating to Initiative optimization similar to those currently in the game, or devalue LUK with respect to Initiative—due to Players being able to achieve guaranteed Initiative with only Initiative boosts at 0 LUK. The Initiative calculation proposed here has neither of the aforementioned flaws.
The Player's Initiative formula + Initiative boosts sum under the proposed Initiative calculation, makes it such that at Level 150 on standardly scaled Monsters with LUK:
• A Player with 250 Mainstat and LUK=250 will have guaranteed first turn Initiative if they use either an Initiative-boosting armor or Ambush Potion.
• A Player with 250 Mainstat and 125<=LUK<=245 will have guaranteed first turn Initiative if they use both an Initiative-boosting armor and Ambush Potion.
• A Player at 250 Mainstat and 0<=LUK<=120 will not have guaranteed first turn Initiative even if they use both an Initiative-boosting armor and Ambush Potion.
Furthermore, there are the additional mathematical symmetries which make the proposed Initiative calculation desirable on the basis of elegance alone:
• A Player with 250 Mainstat and LUK=250 has an equivalent chance to win Initiative, without Initiative boosts, compared to a standardly scaled Level 150 Monster that has LUK.
• A Player with 250 Mainstat and LUK=125 has an approximately equivalent chance to win Initiative if they use either an Initiative-boosting armor or Ambush Potion.
• A Player with 250 Mainstat and LUK=0 has an approximately equivalent chance to win Initiative if they use both an Initiative-boosting armor and Ambush Potion.
—
Lastly, to address some potential counter-arguments. While some have pointed that the intended purpose of the current Initiative calculation, is a minor buff to Mainstat Hybrid builds. I believe the implementation of a buff to Mainstat Hybrids, in the manner of the current Initiative calculation is poor on principle; on the following bases:
1. The current Initiative calculation is, in practice, only truly a "buff" to Mainstat Hybrid builds insofar as END (and to a lesser extent CHA) is numerically overpowered and over-provide value to the Player. Because a Player running a Mainstat Hybrid build at 250 on both Mainstats, receives diminished returns from LUK stat investment after 20 points, due to LUK stat no longer being relevant to winning Initiative in practice, past this value, based on the current Initiative calculation.
2. The current Initiative calculation comes at the game mechanical cost of making Initiative, across the board; including for Hybrids, nothing short of unintuitive, unheuristical, and unpredictable unless the Player happens to know the exact formulas and numbers. This will be illustrated below using numerical breakdowns of practical examples.
Here a numerical breakdown using the proposed Initiative calculation, of a Player running 250 Mainstat & 250 LUK & Initiative-boosting armor or Ambush Potion, with respect to the highest possible Initiative value for a standardly scaled Monster at Level 150:
The Player side Initiative calculation is (250 + 250)/2 + 63 = 313.
And the Monster side Initiative calculation is (225 + 275)/2 = 250.
Since the statement [313-(62+1)]>=250 is True, the Player has guaranteed first turn Initiative.
For comparison, this is the numerical breakdown using the current Initiative calculation, showing how a Player running a single Mainstat at 250 cannot hit the guaranteed first turn Initiative threshold value at 250 LUK if the Player only has an Initiative-boosting armor or Ambush Potion:
The Player side Initiative calculation is (250 + 250/2)/2 + 105 = 292.5.
And the Monster side Initiative calculation is (225 + 275/2 + 250/2)/2 = 243.75.
Since the statement [292.5-(100+1)]>=243.75 is False, the Player does not have guaranteed first turn Initiative.
Next, this is the numerical breakdown using the current Initiative calculation, showing how a Player with both Initiative-boosting armor and Ambush Potion, running a single Mainstat at 250 will hit the guaranteed first turn Initiative threshold value at exactly 145 LUK—an arbitrary number which makes no sense:
The Player side Initiative calculation is (145 + 250/2)/2 + 105 + 105 = 345.
And the Monster side Initiative calculation is (225 + 275/2 + 250/2)/2 = 243.75.
Since the statement [345-(100+1)]>=243.75 is True, the Player has guaranteed first turn Initiative.
Finally, this is the numerical breakdown using the current Initiative calculation, showing how a Player with both Initiative-boosting armor and Ambush Potion, running double Mainstats at 250 will hit the guaranteed first turn Initiative threshold value at exactly 20 LUK—again, an arbitrary number which makes no sense:
The Player side Initiative calculation is (20 + 250/2 + 250/2)/2 + 105 + 105 = 345.
And the Monster side Initiative calculation is (225 + 275/2 + 250/2)/2 = 243.75.
Since the statement [345-(100+1)]>=243.75 is True, the Player has guaranteed first turn Initiative.
< Message edited by Gateless -- 1/20/2025 20:15:16 >
_____________________________
“Thus, because the wise do not find that an illusory horse and elephant are a horse and an elephant, they do not qualify as nonexistent, but because they are found by fools, they qualify as existent.”
|
Printable Version
Icon Legend
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread
