Necromancer's eventual rework really needs to fulfill the "summoner" power fantasy.


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8/16/2026 21:41:11

GodJank
Member

I think it is a very, very big shame that DragonFable doesn't have any actual classes or playstyles that allows for a proper "beastmaster" playstyle. Draco is so incredibly powerful and versatile that the only way you can truly fulfill that beastmaster/summoner power fantasy is if you go out of your way to use other pets, or if you swap pets for very niche purposes (Chimera, Party Tog).

In most other games where Necromancer classes are featured (or liches, but they are almost interchangeable), you're given the option of either casting debilitating hexes/curses on the enemy, or you're summoning random undead fodder, goons and ruffians to do your bidding. This is really fun, and I really hope that when Necromancer gets its eventual rework, Verly attempts to explore the idea of making Necromancer into DF's first actual beastmaster class.

We already have a very big plethora of defensive behemoths (Paladin, Bulwark DragonLord, DragonSlayer) and offensive powerhouses (Technomancer, ChaosWeaver, DeathKnight) and I'm struggling of ways to make Necromancer make itself look distinct from the classes we currently have. Right now, it spams DoTs and gets carried by some skills that are, quite frankly, absurdly overpowered. Of all the allowed classes in the Inn right now, Necromancer's Inspire Terror is quite possibly the single strongest skill (the only other contenders imo being Writhe and Reinforce Armor). Shroud of the Undead is absurdly powerful, and Shadow Seed would be unbelievably ridiculous if it wasn't for the fact that Necromancer has no real way of inflicting -All, has low +Boost and has generally weak base damages. This feels like a really weird way for a Necromancer to play, and feels very disconnected from the supposed power fantasy. It also doesn't really help that the "DoT spamming tank class that has access to surprising burst" is already generally fulfilled by Pyromancer and Ninja.

I think Shadow Seed is conceptually a very cool skill to have, and I think it'll likely be the centralizing mechanic Necromancer is going to have going forward. I can imagine it working similar to Chronomancer's Rift Collapse from AQW, dealing a strong burst of damage after several turns, which feels fittingly evil. Beyond that, I think Verly should experiment with having Necromancer have CHA scaling skills (the skeletons), or possibly have the ability to summon guests altogether to fight alongside it; Slay the Spire 2 is a great game to use as inspiration, as it has characters like Necrobinder (Osty) and the Defect (orbs). It feels cheap, dirty and appropriate for a Necromancer to have its minions do its bidding for it.

This also makes me think of an old class idea AstralCodex made up years ago, an Exalted variant for the Mage class (I think?), where Necromancer had the ability to prolong the duration of status effects. This feels like it would be appropriately grimy for Necromancer and could fulfill the fantasy of "crippling the enemy with hexes and harrowing curses" idea.

TL;DR: Necromancer's rework should attempt to explore power fantasies currently lacking in DragonFable, and attempt to make it distinct from already similar classes. Necromancer is a great candidate to make a real beastmaster/summoner class. Shadow Seed is a very cool mechanic.

Edit: I have no interest in even trying to theorycraft in this thread anymore. This was just supposed to be a fun little thing and come up with ideas on how Necromancer could be worked. Thank you for devolving this thread into ridiculous arguments and uncivilized "gotchas".

< Message edited by GodJank -- 8/17/2026 19:45:55 >

Post #: 1

8/17/2026 4:58:57

TFS
Helpful!

While its playstyle isn't really flavor-compliant with being a necromancer, the Necromancer class is one of the most fun and mechanically unique classes in the game, and is still fairly viable despite many years of powercreep and mechanical changes. It would be a loss to the game if its current skillset were to be removed, unlike any other class that's ever been revamped in the past. Which is why it hasn't been revamped.

quote:

I'm struggling of ways to make Necromancer make itself look distinct from the classes we currently have.

Have you tried actually playing it? The class automatically inflicts a number of DoTs on the target to ensure it makes progress each turn even if the player doesn't attack (or if the enemy uses shields that Necromancer lacks the offenses to penetrate), then alternates between a number of mechanically unique defensive tools to protect itself without dealing direct damage. Necromancer relies on these passive DoTs as its primary source of damage so that it can protect itself with Ward, Shroud, Tap, and and Terror instead of attacking; this is distinct from any other class in the game.

quote:

Right now, it spams DoTs and gets carried by some skills that are, quite frankly, absurdly overpowered. Of all the allowed classes in the Inn right now, Necromancer's Inspire Terror is quite possibly the single strongest skill (the only other contenders imo being Writhe and Reinforce Armor).

This is a really inane statement. While Inspire Terror is a skill that would be overpowered if it were on a class like Epoch or Ranger, it isn't overpowered because it's on Necromancer. This would be like if I made a thread about how GPS's Nanobots or Chronomancer's Fast Forward were absurdly overpowered because they would be broken if they were actually on Ranger or Pyromancer instead. See how stupid that sounds?
Because Inspire Terror is on a class with such poor damage, it can't be used in burst chains and instead just ekes out incremental progress; it allows Necromancer to -Health swap on a turn of its HoT without fear of taking extra damage, reduce the cooldowns of its shields, reduce the duration of buffs on the enemy, decrease the frequency of enemy heals, and even swap to Uragiri to increase its DoT - all while giving the DoT class another tick of DoT damage. This is very distinct from how a completely different class would make use of this skill because, shocker, it's a completely different class.

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Shadow Seed would be unbelievably ridiculous if it wasn't for the fact that Necromancer has no real way of inflicting -All, has low +Boost and has generally weak base damages.

What? Do you actually know what Shadow Seed does? It makes you skip your current turn in order to add additional hits to a future attack, which isn't even close to "unbelievably ridiculous" because it's Necromancer and its skills aren't designed to give this mechanic a high damage yield. There are many, many classes in this game that have the similar bust vastly superior ability to take an extra turn after they attack...

quote:

It also doesn't really help that the "DoT spamming tank class that has access to surprising burst" is already generally fulfilled by Pyromancer and Ninja.

Necromancer is not even remotely close to a burst class...? It needs two wasted turns and a 1/12 RNG roll in order to get a burst turn equivalent to that of an an offensive class, which you will not bother wasting turns on if you actually know how to play the Necromancer class. No duh that actual burst classes are better at being burst classes than Necromancer, what an entirely pointless comparison.

Overall, I think the issues you've expressed with the Necromancer class would be solved by actually playing the Necromancer class. But I think this thread is less about that, and more about a fanfic of mechanics from other games that you want to see, and you've justified sharing them by making up a bunch of supposed issues with the Necromancer class. bonus points for calling dragonslayer defensive, deathknight offensive, and chaosweaver a powerhouse

< Message edited by TFS -- 8/17/2026 6:30:26 >

Post #: 2

8/17/2026 10:11:36

GodJank
Member

quote:

Have you tried actually playing it?

Yes, Necromancer and Master SoulWeaver (the old one) have been the two classes I've tried to put the most effort into when it has come to clearing the harder fights at the time. I eventually gave up on Necromancer because I think the class fundamentally isn't fun, nor mechanically unique. Aside from Shadow Seed and the autostun, what does the class even have that other classes don't? Raise Minion is unique but not necessarily in a good way. Life Tap is strong but it is mechanically just a HoT/DoT.

quote:

This is a really inane statement. While Inspire Terror is a skill that would be overpowered if it were on a class like Epoch or Ranger, it isn't overpowered because it's on Necromancer.

Right, Necromancer as a whole is a mediocre class and if the class is going be reworked, Inspire Terror has to be heavily nerfed because the skill on its own is insanely strong. It's odd that you'd call my statement inane, when I've seen you call the skills overpowered yourself (not verbatim, but the meaning's still there).

quote:

What? Do you actually know what Shadow Seed does?

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Necromancer is not even remotely close to a burst class...?

Yes, obviously. The burst it can potentially allow for is really strong, if you get good RNG. It isn't a burst class, but it has access to burst, sporadically (via Seed + 3 hit Raise Minion). Just think about how genuinely insane Shadow Seed would be on any other decently viable class.

quote:

But I think this thread is less about that, and more about a fanfic of mechanics from other games that you want to see,

Yes, because I think Necromancer in DragonFable does a very poor job of fulfilling the power fantasy you'd expect from the class, and I think it needs to do a better job of distinguishing itself from other classes we have right now. Shadow Seed is a genuinely really cool idea for a skill, and having Necromancer actually summon skeletons would make it genuinely stand out.

quote:

bonus points for calling dragonslayer defensive, deathknight offensive, and chaosweaver a powerhouse

What exactly is the problem with these statements? DragonSlayer IS a tank, DeathKnight IS offensive and ChaosWeaver has access to very high DPT. None of this is wrong.

My issue with your replies in this thread is that they feel inherently biased. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that you've got a problem with me, and you're well within your rights to dislike me. But I expect you to treat my opinions and my ideas in a vacuum, and not randomly talk down to me and have issues with really minor things.

< Message edited by GodJank -- 8/17/2026 10:12:14 >

Post #: 3

8/17/2026 14:44:29

TFS
Helpful!

quote:

Yes, obviously. The burst it can potentially allow for is really strong, if you get good RNG. It isn't a burst class, but it has access to burst, sporadically (via Seed + 3 hit Raise Minion).

No, it's really not. Even if you ignore the fact that it's an 8.3% chance on a skill that wastes the turn if you do not get the desired lucky outcome, this is not a lot of damage. 790% over two turns no damagemods outside of +30 Boost is less damage than Technomancer just pressing its Attack button twice, as a point of comparison.
This along with the claim that you only tried to use the Necromancer class many years ago (unless I'm interpreting your statement incorrectly?) isn't really helping the case that your criticisms of the class aren't coming from a place of knowledge. The functional application of the Seed skill is to either combine it with Champion to consistently hit a much lower damage threshold (a maximum roll of 360% autocrit is less damage than Technomancer pressing its Attack button once), or get more hit roll chances on either Cysero's Hammer or Dark Intent into a shield.

Not trying to personally attack you or whatever, you've just made a thread about how this class is terrible and needs to be remade but are clearly basing it on having played it incorrectly many years ago before giving up - or at least having a very poor understanding of how its defensive skills work and instead trying to claim that its very low attack damage potential is somehow an overpowered burst combination.

quote:

My issue with your replies in this thread is that they feel inherently biased. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that you've got a problem with me, and you're well within your rights to dislike me. But I expect you to treat my opinions and my ideas in a vacuum, and not randomly talk down to me and have issues with really minor things.

If I've responded to one of your threads before, I genuinely don't remember. The only things here I've taken issue with and responded to are factually incorrect statements about the Necromancer class (its playstyle isn't unique, its skills are overpowered, it's a burst class that can deal a lot of damage); I haven't commented at all on your opinions or suggestions, besides generally agreeing with you that its playstyle isn't flavor-compliant.

< Message edited by TFS -- 8/17/2026 14:52:55 >

Post #: 4

8/17/2026 17:52:10

GodJank
Member

quote:

Even if you ignore the fact that it's an 8.3% chance on a skill that wastes the turn if you do not get the desired lucky outcome, this is not a lot of damage. 790% over two turns no damagemods outside of +30 Boost is less damage than Technomancer just pressing its Attack button twice, as a point of comparison

Even if you compare it to Technomancer (Attack genuinely having the potential to have 300% base damage), the statement wasn't "Necromancer is a burst class", it's "Necromancer has access to very irregular burst", which isn't really a wrong statement. And a big point of the thread is to illustrate how Necromancer's skills in a vacuum are incredibly absurd, only being balanced out by Necromancer being a rather poor class. I also made this thread because Necromancer has the potential to genuinely be really cool and flavorful, and have a way to make itself distinct from the other DoT spammers.

This entire time, I've been talking about the skills it has in a vacuum, and how they have no business existing on a class with otherwise better skills.

quote:

This along with the claim that you only tried to use the Necromancer class many years ago (unless I'm interpreting your statement incorrectly?)

No, it's still a class I try to use even today. I attempted clearing JEX with Necromancer when she first came out, before giving up and doing it with MSW instead. I've always had a soft spot for Necromancer and old EPL/current PL. I've also not made any claims about the class being terrible, but merely how the class is rather poorly designed imo and how I don't think it lives up expectations when it comes to fulfilling its power fantasy.

quote:

If I've responded to one of your threads before, I genuinely don't remember

I had a problem with DLL and thought the bosses were conceptually rather boring, and I had an issue with Sepulchure yet again being rather unthreatening aside from just draining your MP. You then proceeded to rudely reply and go on to say unsavory things in other servers about me because of that statement. I'm trying very hard to move on and to avoid arguing with people and have constant drama, and you're making that very hard.

Instead of commenting on the actual thread and having people discuss potential rework ideas for Necromancer, you derailed the entire thread by fundamentally misunderstanding the entire point of my comparisons. Thank you.

Post #: 5

8/17/2026 18:39:37

Laeon val Observis
Member

Well, this thread wants to get a taste of Ainz Ooal Gown’s Grasp heart, with a dash of The Goal of All Life is Death.

From my perspective, Jank, while some of your arguments have substance, I will have to side with TFS on this. You’re thinking too narrow by letting Necromancer just be some summoner and disrespecting its heritage by virtue that it is one of Ash’s success stories in class modernization alongside Techno and Ranger (While those two other class’s Reimagining appeared technical and verbose, they were actually more minimal but had large positive impacts to already powerhouse combat programs). Ironic, as you have tried to make a place among the AQ suggestion threads, a game in the AE multiverse where classes are quite elaborate, almost as if you were intoxicated by the older format of AQW’s variant of the class. To those who don’t know, AQW’s original take on Necro was that it is a pure Battle Pet class which means its performance is severely hampered if unable to deploy said kind of pet. It has long since, alongside other classes that occupied that niche (pity that BeastMaster got caught in the crossfire), been revised in that Battle Pet deployment is merely for flavor and could function just fine without depending on such pet.

Necromancy has now expanded in that it has now been defined as the manipulations of the energies of death, and the “summoning and dominating the deceased to do your bidding” part is just a basic parlor trick of evil overlords. As such, there’s no need to revise DF’s incarnation to fit your roleplaying fanfics to something as narrow as Zadd’s Golemancy. Add to your power fantasies the what-if scenario that a Necro decides to become a bit more hands on instead of hiding behind animated skeletons

While we can expand upon what could be revised the above image by discussing its 14 skills, how about we fix certain foundational aspects of the class, mainly its summoning and Fear Aura mechanics:

At its current configuration, its Fear Aura gets reset when it kills a foe, and most Inn super fights (duo+) confront multiple adversaries. Simply attaching the DoT power counter to the player then keeping the auto apply to target (e.g. cast Necro skill/Attack, Fear the opponent for 3 turns) should preserve the heritage whilst not having to start the 20-turn DoT escalation per enemy from scratch.
For the summoning aspect, we can remove some if not all the RNG by tying the strength of the undead summoned to the Fear Aura’s potency, possibly even add a pinch of the extra attack system used in Pirate’s Opening shot and SH’s Focused Hunt. In fact, using the Fear Aura as a power reference can also be expanded upon the class’s non-summoner aspects.

If we are to use your "TLDR", Necro's skillsets are solid foundationally, no need to overhaul them massively to fit your one-dimensional summoner fanfics. Even MaleficTekX's Dracomancer fanfic class was more entertaining.

AQW

Post #: 6

8/17/2026 19:53:47

TFS
Helpful!

quote:

And a big point of the thread is to illustrate how Necromancer's skills in a vacuum are incredibly absurd, only being balanced out by Necromancer being a rather poor class.

So the class is poor, but it has good skills, so it's not poor? And if you were to put some of its skills on another class that wasn't designed around them, this could potentially lead to an overpowered interaction? This doesn't make any sort of point at all, because that's true of any class in the game...

quote:

No, it's still a class I try to use even today. I attempted clearing JEX with Necromancer when she first came out, before giving up

So you tried to use it once two years ago and lost? Necromancer is literally one of the best classes for JEX, one of the very first clears (me btw) on release night was with Necromancer, I'd venture to guess that's why you were trying to use it...
This really isn't lending credence to the assertion that you're using the class correctly. You seem to be fixated on Necromancer's (poor and inconsistent) direct attack damage, as if this is Ninja or Pyromancer, before claiming the class doesn't have any identity of its own and is actually just a weaker version of Ninja or Pyromancer.
Of course Necromancer is terrible if you try to use it in this way, half of its skills (and the majority of its rotation) don't do any damage. The burst "rotation" is outdamaged by passive DoTs that also have the benefit of letting you heal or shield yourself instead of taking a turn. Compare this to other DoT classes, like Ninja or Pyromancer or even Ranger, that have to keep attacking in order to inflict DoTs on the enemy and then just use those DoTs to empower their attacks in an actual burst rotation.

I don't know what else to tell you, you're using it wrong. You're allowed to demand that future content indulges your 'power fantasies' or whatever, but you're basing this on wildly inaccurate statements about how the Necromancer class actually plays and performs. Not interested in anything else you've said, or in continuing this discussion.

Post #: 7

8/17/2026 20:16:04

GodJank
Member

quote:

I'd venture to guess that's why you were trying to use it...

No, I was trying to use Necromancer a few weeks/months (I don't remember) later because I was under the impression no one had cleared it yet. I cleared JEX with Pyromancer, and later with MSW. And no, I obviously didn't try to use it once. If you're going to argue, then knock it off with the weird bad faith arguments and indirect insults.

quote:

So the class is poor, but it has good skills, so it's not poor?

It's a rather poor class with some genuinely busted skills. Necro's autostun has no business existing, but it's okay because it's put on a class that can't take advantage of it as well as any other class would.

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Not interested in anything else you've said, or in continuing this discussion.

It seems to me like you weren't interested in anything I've actually said at all. You really just came here JUST to argue and derail the entire thread. Does that make you feel good?

Post #: 8

8/17/2026 20:31:54

Gingkage
Wolf Rider

I will remind you all that respect for your fellow forum members is not a suggestion, but a rule, and further request that everyone keep in mind that tone of voice is difficult to impossible to accurately gauge in text. If this discussion cannot take place in a civil manner, I will be locking it. Stop bickering. Behave.

Post #: 9

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