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The Problems with Every Class

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2/18/2013 16:28:32   
button33
Member

So its been a week or two since the release, and with all the balance changes, everything is still unbalanced. Here are problems with each class, and how it could be fixed. Feel free to post your own ideas.

Blood Mage
I currently see nothing wrong with Blood Mage. The class seems to be pretty well Balanced. But however, this class can use some tweaking.

How to Fix
1. Fireball should have the same energy cost as Plasma Bolt, as they are similar. So the energy for a Max fireball should be only 29 Energy.
2. Food For Though. What about giving Blood Mages Smoke Screen? After all, Mages have Malfunction.

Tech Mage
People running around with 130+ tech builds with plasma bolt and supercharge. The problem here is that plasma bolts does a lot of damage for little energy cost. Supercharge comes back with a additional health.

How to Fix
1. Reduce the damage on Plasma Bolt and make it 33 energy at max, like it used to be.
2. Lower the scale of the damage of Plasma Bolt. Its way TOO HIGH.
3. Add a requirement to Plasma Bolt, preferably a strength requirement.
2. Make supercharge increase with Dexterity and Plasma rain improve with Technology.
4. Here's a thought. Make Malfunction improve with Dexterity. After all, Smoke Screen improves with Technology.
5. Since everyone has large energy pools now, decrease the energy gained from reroute to 25%.

Mercenary
Strength builds are the biggest problem here. This class can only rely on strength to win. Nerf Strength Build.

How to Fix
1. Put a technology requirement on Bezerker.
2. Additional Cooldown for Double Strike, along with a slightly higher energy cost.
3. Food For Thought. Add a Warmup for Double Strike?
4. Hybrid Armor has support requirement.

Tactical Mercenary
Just ran into one with a godlike build. Tanking is the biggest problem here. TLM are getting 100 hp along with nearly 40 defense and resistance, which makes killing them impossible. They have unlimited energy because of reroute... and Poison Grenade just helps tank builds too much.
Tactical Mercs seem to thrive fine. But a few changes couldn't hurt.


How to Fix
1. Change Poison. Add a support requirement or scale down the damage.
2.Place a requirement on their passive armor.
2. Change Mineral Armor to Plasma Armor. Tactical Mercs usually have high tech because of Surgical Strike. This way, it forces them to invest them more into dexterity, for they will have lower defense. (They get Bonus Resistance, even though they don't need any more due to high tech.

Cyber Hunter
Cyber Hunters get high Damage. They have malfunction and Massacre, along with Cheap Shot. This class turns into a damage machine with High Str.

How to Fix
1. Decrease the Damage of Massacre.
2. Give CH Mineral Armor. The core of CH is strength, and high str benefits from high Dex. So giving them extra resistance helps them, as they need to focus less in technology. But by giving them extra defense, CH have to worry about energy damage. This way, they need to invest less into str, or suffer very low resistance.

Bounty Hunter
Arguably one of the best classes in the game. The fact that they have SmokeScreen and Massacre makes them powerful, as they can reduce opponents ability to block.

How to Fix
1. Decrease the damage done by Massacre.
2. Both Massacre and SmokeScreen have a support requirement. There should be some other requirement for the skill. Giving them both a support requirement is redundant....

Feel Free to Post any other thoughts.

< Message edited by button33 -- 2/22/2013 9:28:14 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
2/18/2013 16:32:37   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Blood mage is not weak at all, first off
Second, TLM poison is not a problem, it does about 40 damage total, which is less than Merc can do in one turn
TLM passive armor requires 42 dex, so what you said was invalid

TM the problem is support builds with the new items, not tech builds, those are easy as pie to beat
Strength needs to be scaled down, and double strike does need a longer cooldown + more energy cost
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
2/18/2013 16:38:54   
WolverineIsBack
Member

I am supportive of your ideas, except for the fact that berzerker should have a support requirement. Plasma Bolt is very cheap on energy, and if with malf and a high technology build, it can easily do over 50.

_____________________________

So I heard you like Epic Duel?

http://epicduel.artix.com/charpage.asp?id=wolverine%20is%20back
Epic  Post #: 3
2/18/2013 17:47:42   
Mother1
Member

Blood mage weak? That is funny blood mage isn't weak in the least. they are still strong and the last thing they need is a buff.

Also if they put supercharge back to dex and plasma rain back to tech two vs two would be overrun with caster TM even more. It would be plasma bolt, plasma rain, (Insert move here) Plasma bolt plasma rain Etc. They used to destroy everything with tech back in the old days.

Epic  Post #: 4
2/18/2013 17:51:41   
caser5
Member

Tactical Merc section is silly to me. Did the tank also hit you well? You can't have a 100hp 40 defense TLM that also hits more than 10-15 damage every turn. Also few players want to make a build that takes 5-7 mintues to win. Plus poison isn't very good in the least and is very sparingly used, and the 42 dex.

< Message edited by caser5 -- 2/18/2013 18:05:24 >

_____________________________

Curiosity Killed the Cat
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
2/18/2013 17:53:18   
Vagaran
Member

BM is anything but weak.
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 6
2/18/2013 18:01:27   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

Strength builds are the biggest problem here. This class can only rely on strength to win. Nerf Strength Build.

How to Fix 1. Put a technology requirement on Bezerker. 2. Additional Cooldown for Double Strike, along with a slightly higher energy cost.


If Strength is the problem, why are you only going to meet me tenthway (not even halfway) and change only the Mercenaries when in fact this ignores the Strength Bounty Hunters but also the Strength Blood Mages (anything else Strength too)?

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 2/18/2013 18:02:49 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
2/18/2013 18:13:40   
Rowl
Member
 

 BH: Their defense and res is not enough to resist str builds, and it got no good skills to atack just massacre and blockable cheap shot

BM: Nice power skills with bloodlust, there is no problem if u got a good build (ur own if u copy dont complain)

TLM: There is no problem with this class, they can defend rage, and heal, its kinda tanky and it have str buff. Some good builds u can do to beat all classes

MERC:They said is OP But reality is that ppl is getting pawned by a class who doesnt have bloodlust, reroute, split defenses and nerfed skills, then MERCS With str build get blocked constantly and lose, u can beat this build easy if u make an own good build with any other class.

CH: No problem with this class.

TECH MAGE: IF Somebody is OP they are Mages with plasma bolt and reroute, cuz plasma bolt is a OP Skill , cheap and strong as no others in game, ayways i can say if u have an intelligent build u can beat them nicely. Tech mages are strong if u know how to use it.

REAL problem is that ppl is copying the builds and then complaining cuz they lose, its normal if they dont have their own strategy, doesnt matter how many times they nerf a class or fix the game if Epic Duel doesnt make more difficult to copy a build as in Delta, i can bet it :D, The only solution for now is adaptation every time there is an update, if u can adapt urself u always lost in this game
Post #: 8
2/18/2013 18:16:15   
Banir
Member

quote:

How to Fix
1. Reduce the damage on Plasma Bolt and make it 33 energy at max, like it used to be.
2. Make supercharge increase with Dexterity and Plasma rain improve with Technology.

1. Increasing energy doesn't change much with the massive pool of energy we have now. 2. That just changes the builds. People will start using Plasma Bolt and Plasma Rain together instead of Supercharge.
Epic  Post #: 9
2/18/2013 19:59:39   
button33
Member

Ive added some new thoughts on. Old ones are crossed out. Im not an expert in this game, but I did take all your ideas into consideration. Take a look and tell me what you think.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
2/18/2013 20:44:48   
ScarletReaper
Member

I say bloodmage is good as is. Strong, but not overpowered like it used to be.
Bounty Hunter is far too powerfull if you ask me. What more could you ask than smoke, gun, meteor core, massacre? Very hard to stop.
TechMage, Don't even get me started on those support and caster mages. Ugggh
Merc is pretty strong right now which is wierd since they have no passive health or energy regen and only intimidate as a debuff.
CyberHunter, still pretty strong, but a lot easier to deal with than they were in delta.
TacMerc, Gosh how I hate tank poison surgical strike build with heal loop. :'(

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
2/18/2013 21:45:40   
button33
Member

Maybe giving BloodMages SmokeScreen and Bounty Hunters Intimidate would solve the problem?
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
2/18/2013 23:08:49   
Mother1
Member

@ button33

This would OP bloodmage big time. We would have strength blood mages running a muck if that happened. I mean look at their skill tree. Smokesreen, fireball, deadly aim, bludgeon. This is all that would be needed to make an OP strength build that would destroy the masses.

Plus with all the extra health they would get from blood lust it wouldn't be pretty for a lot of builds.
Epic  Post #: 13
2/18/2013 23:11:25   
button33
Member

@Mother1. True. But Bounty Hunters are oped running around with Bloodlust, Smoke Screen, CheapShot and Massacre. So Bounties may need some change too.
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
2/18/2013 23:17:52   
NDB
Member

Duh. But you don't go around giving them random stuff like Intimidate. What you do is nerf Smoke Screen, Massacre, and/or Strength altogether.
Epic  Post #: 15
2/18/2013 23:56:26   
aomont
Member

As a BM, I could use some smokescreen as long as you don't change it for intimidate or the shields. Then I'll be dead forever no matter who I duel against. lol
I agree with others though that BMs are already pretty balanced.
I have more problems against TM (who doesn't ?) and I like these two suggestions:
quote:


2. Lower the scale of the damage of Plasma Bolt. Its way TOO HIGH.
5. Since everyone has large energy pools now, decrease the energy gained from reroute to 25%.

I have trouble with TactM too, although I like to be prepaired for and like long battles. I have no idea how/if something should change in them. Maybe they need some change in their capacity to tank or it is maybe my build that is not good to counter them.


Mercs are not that big of a problem anymore but still strong. More interesting focus builds and sup builds showing up although str spammers still show up a lot.
I still see a lot of STR BMs although many have accepted to use lower str to bring defense/resistance up and play a bit more with the skill tree.
I can deal well with hunters (BH and CH) but some kick my ass big time and sometimes it is actually a matter of who goes first or who is beatten by lag :D.

That said, I don't think a change in any of these last 4 classes now is a good idea as they can get either too OP or UP.
I'd wait until the next round of balance changes comes.

True is we varium players can't use Delta standarts to evaluate our win rate or battle length in Omega. I was getting 80+% win rate easily in Delta and I'm struggling to reach 70% (actually I'm <70% since Omega started and was under 50% before balance changes). I believe this difference is mainly due to varium/non-varium balance adding challenge, which is good !
Things have changed and I think it is for the better, embrace the challenge my friends !

< Message edited by aomont -- 2/18/2013 23:57:25 >
Epic  Post #: 16
2/19/2013 0:46:21   
Made 4 Sunny Days
Member

You give BM smokescreen and you'd start to have the same problems that you had with tact mercs in early delta when the had smokescreen. Paired up with bludgeon, deadly aim and blood lust would be a crazy powerful class.

Tech mage could use some touching up, I like the idea of malfunction increasing with dex, but then you'd start to get more people abusing dex and throwing out powerful overloads and plasma rain.
As a tech mage who doesn't cast, I know there are other builds that a tech mage can use, so I support the ideas for changing the casting powers

~Stay Sunny~
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
2/19/2013 0:53:37   
Bloodpact
Member

In my experience here's my 2 cents on This. Alot of classes are like rock paper scissors to each.

Tact Mercs-> Well rounded tank, can out last energy dependents like BH, BM, and Merc. 50/50 win vs Tech Mage's.

Mercs -> Energy dependent tank, can get a good hp lead on you if you don't block , good for taking out TM, BM, and CH.

Blood Mage-> Offensive mage with shields to make up for low defenses, good for killing a lil bit of everyone.

Tech Mage-> Op Mage , Tanks energy dmg ,counter physical with shields, does great damage, and counters energy dependents good killer of the BH , Merc, and BM.

Bounty Hunter-> Assassin, kills you quick or there screwed, good for killing a lil bit of everyone.

Cyber Hunter-> Kinda like a hybrid between a Bounty Hunter and Mercs, good for killing Tact Mercs and Tech Mages.

So everyone is complaining about "That one class that keeps beating me so OP OP OP OP"
As I read from someone you people just need to learn to adapt.
I only call the tech mage OP because, it's like a tact merc tank build, but then it has the damage of a good damage dealer too.
I would recommend increasing the energy cost of plasma bolt, that alone should be enough.

P.s Oh and I like how you just go absolutely ham on the Tech mages with your whole
"how to fix them thing" lets just NERF the crap out of them! ( Sarcasm )
Destroying a class isn't the solution.




< Message edited by Bloodpact -- 2/19/2013 1:12:59 >
Epic  Post #: 18
2/19/2013 2:04:22   
Made 4 Sunny Days
Member

@ Bloodpact

As a techmage I fear what you have said will happen. Im not a caster and Im worried that tech mage will be hit hard affecting all builds, not just casters. They should increase the energy cost of plasma, that would take some wind out of the sails of casters
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
2/19/2013 9:29:09   
ScarletReaper
Member

Higher energy cost wouldn't make much difference though when you have reroute and high hp. I say make plasmabolt increase with something else. Maybe move it to support and have malf improve with tech?

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
2/19/2013 14:14:26   
G4m3r
Member

I will try a super tank build with high dex and tech with TLM and see if itīs strong or not...
Post #: 21
2/19/2013 14:28:16   
Cursed Darkness
Member

who uses a high str build on Cyber hunters, like really if anythnig some people use high dex builds and have emp grenade 2 combat the merc's high str builds. If anything the cyber hunter class is a bit underpowered but this is just my opinion, and anyways most cyber hunters have plasma armor which is a 43 tech requirement so i disproved u there about cyber hunters having high str builds becuase it just doesn't happen, maybe at first it did but not any more, we have 2 watch out for str build mercs for the most part.

< Message edited by Cursed Darkness -- 2/19/2013 14:35:13 >
Epic  Post #: 22
2/19/2013 16:03:23   
caser5
Member

quote:

I will try a super tank build with high dex and tech with TLM and see if itīs strong or not...


I'll try this too/ mega defenses+poison+Surgical strike, but I have to say that this seems like it's win rate would only be around 50/50.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
2/19/2013 16:39:41   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Poison doesn't really work too well, particularly for TLM tanks. It takes up too much energy for them and doesn't do too much damage overall. Also, it's easy to work around and it's predictable, and can only be fully utilized in advantageous cases by someone who really knows what they're doing. In 2v2, poison is also really neat, particularly since its cooldown is low, but, like before, it can be easily worked around because it's predictable. Overall, it's more effective in 2v2 than anything else because it's hard to manage when 2 people are double-teaming a poisoned opponent, but in that case poison rarely actually lasts all 3 turns.
Epic  Post #: 24
2/19/2013 17:17:03   
caser5
Member

Tried TLM tank build, does not work with poison Penguin highlights why^ , and it also takes up too many stat points to be able to be effective.(only hits 36 max and doesn't increase with anything, puny especially compared with plasma bolt & others) I'm not seeing a viable TLM build at this point, apart from a balanced build that is marginally effective.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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