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[Requesting A Lock] Nerf Shadow Arts

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4/1/2013 0:55:01   
Raiii
Member
 

 Shadow Arts (SA) has been bothering me lately considering that it has saved the lives of many Hunters both Bounty and Cyber despite their mediocre Dexterity.

SA increases the chance to block an enemy's attack and the chance to stun. When put to the Max level, SA gives an output of 10% chance.

Now what's so peculiar about this form of chance is how it stacks together with Dexterity and Support, two other skills that increase the chance to block and stun.

It seems to occur to me that SA seems to increase the chance to block or stun so greatly that it seems like Dexterity and Support are no longer of much important, therefore producing lots of skills only having mediocre amounts of them. Hence, this allows Hunters to create formidable builds that require small amounts of both Dex and Supp and still block and stun with a pretty good chance.

I honestly think that these types of builds are the 'OP build' of this generation (Omega) along with Surgical-Striking Tact. Mercenaries (but that's a different topic).

I happen to observe greater than average Dex (it produces 23-28 Def), and am usually faced with Hunters that have 16-20, 17-21 Def who, most of the time, block my Bot or Strike.

SA is such a great passive skill which could easily be manipulated by Hunters to block or stun their opponents with ease, two of the most annoying happenings during battles which are considered to be 'lucky'.

A solution I wish to propose is these three; do any of the following:

1) Nerf down the difference of the % chance between levels of SA from 1 to 0.50-0.75. This makes the Max level of SA produce only 5.5-7.75 %
2) Delete the chance to Block and let the chance to stun remain.
3) Delete the chance to Stun and decrease the difference of the % chance between levels of SA from 1 to 0.75. Max level of SA now produces only 7.75%

I hope these propositions seem open to you and not make it look like a rage suggestion against Hunters. I just wish to make the game fairer for everyone.

I gladly appreciate comments and suggestions regarding this especially from Hunters since this proposition is addressed directly to them. I don't wish to start a fight but rather a very sound argument in order to let everyone have a better experience of Omega's wonderful changes for growth.

Have a nice day; keep duelling!

~Rai

< Message edited by Raiii -- 4/1/2013 8:44:52 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/1/2013 3:44:05   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

I hope these propositions seem open to you and not make it look like a rage suggestion against Hunters. I just wish to make the game fairer for everyone.

more like making it useless so you can win against them next time.

quote:

1) Nerf down the difference of the % chance between levels of SA from 1 to 0.50-0.75. This makes the Max level of SA produce only 5.5-7.75 %
2) Delete the chance to Block and let the chance to stun remain.
3) Delete the chance to Stun and decrease the difference of the % chance between levels of SA from 1 to 0.75. Max level of SA now produces only 7.75%

not in any way supported, these are more like ways of destroying a skill rather than fixing the problem.

MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
4/1/2013 3:56:09   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 Not supported, but not for the reasons Trizz cited. I don't think the measures are overly harsh; I think they're too weak. Just scrap the skill altogether. It has no place in tactical play.

BTW SA's chance to stun is practically worthless.

I'm a CH, if anyone would like to know.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 4/1/2013 3:58:00 >
Post #: 3
4/1/2013 6:27:10   
Raiii
Member
 

 Thank you to the first two replies. I completely understand what you guys are saying and I know where you're coming from when you mean them.

One more thing I want to talk about is the number of Passive's the three types of classes (Merc, Hunter, Mage) have. Both Mages and Mercs only have two Passive's (Mercs: Adrenaline, Hybrid Armor; Tact. Mercs: Reroute, Mineral Armor; Tech Mages: Reroute, Deadly Aim; Blood Mages: Bloodlust, Deadly Aim) as well as Bounty Hunters who have Bloodlust and Shadow Arts. Cyber Hunters on the other hand have three Plasma Armor, Static Charge and Shadow Arts.

As a veteran Epic Duellist, Passive's have proven to be of utmost importance to builds and the strength of these skills are deadly. What more could a build be deadlier if Shadow Arts is one of them.

That's just another thought on the subject, in relation to the main topic.

Perhaps this is diverging from the topic so I guess for now, I'd gladly accept thoughts regarding the initial post before this.

Once more, I'd like to point out I just want a healthy argument. Unlike what Trizz said, I am most certainly not proposing this just because of personal anger towards Hunters.

Still, thank you for the replies though, Silver and Trizz.

~Rai
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
4/1/2013 6:36:08   
odsey
Member

@Raiii, static charge is not a passive.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 5
4/1/2013 7:12:17   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

quote:

One more thing I want to talk about is the number of Passive's the three types of classes (Merc, Hunter, Mage) have. Both Mages and Mercs only have two Passive's (Mercs: Adrenaline, Hybrid Armor; Tact. Mercs: Reroute, Mineral Armor; Tech Mages: Reroute, Deadly Aim; Blood Mages: Bloodlust, Deadly Aim) as well as Bounty Hunters who have Bloodlust and Shadow Arts. Cyber Hunters on the other hand have three Plasma Armor, Static Charge and Shadow Arts.

As a veteran Epic Duellist, Passive's have proven to be of utmost importance to builds and the strength of these skills are deadly. What more could a build be deadlier if Shadow Arts is one of them.

lol, static charge is not a passive XD

and no shadow arts is the least reliable passive compared to deadly aim, bloodlust, reroute or the passive armors, just imagine if bounty hunters replace SA with deadly aim or cyber hunters replace SA with mineral armor, do you have any proof that SA builds are deadly? SA is easy to counter, you just have to plan your moves and try your best to not continuously use blockable moves, because no-one is dumb enough to continuously strike a target when they have shadow arts and you have also been smoked.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/1/2013 7:25:43   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 ^

Indeed, SA is easy to counter and isn't actually OP. But its very existence contradicts what EpicDuel is supposed to be. There isn't even a tactical gamble, as in the case of stun skills. Nor is there significant opportunity cost in terms of skill points; more often than not, SA ends up as a skill point dump, particularly since it is best for certain skills to be limited in level due to energy cost. Which is why it is not a nerf that is needed, but a complete replacement of the skill.
Post #: 7
4/1/2013 7:27:44   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@above what are you going to replace it with then? yes lets replace it with deadly aim then everyone is happy.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
4/1/2013 7:32:53   
Ranloth
Banned


 I had this idea in my Cores thread around 3 weeks ago, which was aiming to fix the balance cores to be that of less luck-friendly and able to be negated, and I mentioned SA too (quoting):
quote:

Actually, looking at Shadow Arts (BHs/CHs), it could work in similar way to Ninja Reflexes; still raises blocking chance above the cap (45% max with SA), but if there's a massive Dex difference - so it can reach base % with pure Dex - then SA would be negated and base % chance to block would be used instead. Reduces luck & as I've said above, there'd have to be a massive differenc in Dex to achieve that; base is 2%, max with SA is 45% -> 1% requires 2.5 Dex so 43% would require 108 Dex difference which is possible with very good Reflex Boost and either, enemy having low Dex or the player having high Dex.

So if there's big difference in Dex, you could make the base drop if you have SA (from 12% at max SA to perhaps 8% -> it depends on your Dex but you could nullify its effect whilst keeping it the same).
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
4/1/2013 7:51:32   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 @Trizz

An entirely new skill. It's an issue that would take a year or more to solve, given the devs' productivity rate. Personally, I wouldn't put it that high up my to-do list if I were a dev. As I said, the actual effect on the metagame is not particularly significant, and replacing it should be part of a larger campaign to reduce luck in general.

< Message edited by Silver Sky Magician -- 4/1/2013 7:53:40 >
Post #: 10
4/1/2013 8:15:44   
Lycan.
Member

Not supported at all.
With all these unblock able attacks shadow arts in the modern day is pretty much useless.
We have Sidearm, Auxiliary, bots and cores like platinum's special which are all unblock able.
Epic  Post #: 11
4/1/2013 8:21:53   
RageSoul
Member

Here's a better idea :

Instead of bonus Block % , make the percent give bonus DEX based on based DEX .
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
4/1/2013 8:44:20   
Raiii
Member
 

 Didn't know that Static Charge is not a passive :D

Well that's the end of that minor issue.

Going back to the main topic, it seems that I am the one who's mistaken according to the majority of the replies. I accept all of your answers negating this theoretical solution.

However this stuck the most to me:

quote:

Instead of bonus Block % , make the percent give bonus DEX based on based DEX .


Thanks for the idea RageSoul, I'll try to figure out a new topic regarding this once this issue actually becomes a problem; but majority says it's not quite important, so for now, I will not react to the issue (whether there was one or not to begin with) of Shadow Arts. :)

Thanks for the replies guys. This gives me a better sense of Shadow Arts' real effects and talents. Thanks as well RageSoul for the better answer to the "problem".

Requesting a lock now :)

Keep duelling!

~Rai
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
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