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The 'Win' Complex

 
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6/6/2013 13:11:50   
Khalix
Member

A break from all my non-serious threads. (Hopefully, this somehow won't end up deleted)

I believe I've already discussed pragmatists before, however, for the sake of new readers, they are simply "Practical" people. Best equipment, best advantage, best etc. etc. to ensure a good win. They're also the most common type of player in practically every game. No one wants to be under-equipped, especially in the presence of other people- Players.

Alright, what about them?

They really inhibit progress and (Unfortunately) flood the forums with biased messages without regard for others.

I'll give you ladies and gents a wonderful example, myself.

quote:

I've first played ED on 2009. Back then, lots of things were different and everything was generally well- Except for the fact that varium dictates your capability to win. Of course, being a lovely free player at the time, I quit after my W/L R* went below 1. Returned on 2011 with a different character class, maintained a high K/D R, then got bored, this was repeated until I have experience will all 3 starting classes at the time. To be honest, the only difficulty was when fighting varium-users. Everything was a breeze, except for my first ever character.

Now I have a fancy Juggernaut with a W/L R of 9.

*Win/Loss Ratio


Noticed anything odd?

Some would say that "Learning from past mistakes are normal." However, what I'm confused with is the fact that I'm now obsessed with "Winning." You see, most battles last from 2-7 minutes. Fact is, because grinding* is literally part of the game, you get more and more obsessed with winning.

The problem it imposes on us:

Players are mostly pragmatists at heart. The moment we see a loss because of some unforeseen factor (Such as critical hits or stuns), we instantly blame the system and speak out against its existence. You see, ED is no longer being played for "Fun", but simply "To pass the time" or "To brag about how many wins I have." After all, it's generally agreed that since missions are bland, PvP is the one and only right way to go.

The fact is, even lvl 35's complain about balance when they have achieved a hard goal already- Leveling up to lvl 35. To be fair, plenty of the MMOs I go to have pretty laid back max-levels who don't really care anymore about how their record looks primarily because there's no point in making changes as they've already achieved their goal. Their present goal, after maxing themselves out, is to find friends and so on.

Back on topic, it affects ED because of selfish, biased threads that focus on the ramblings of someone obsessed with keeping a good record. One loss from a "Lucky**" turn is enough to send them spiraling down in rage. The most common outlet is the forums.

The most common example of pragmatism is...

quote:

My x stat is higher than theirs, therefore, they cannot possibly y me.


It's a common mindset. You think your attacks are unblockable if you have 30-36 defense while your opponent has 20-24. Or that it's simply impossible for someone with 4-5 Support to do two criticals in a row. After all, the minimum chance is so low, it might as well be 0%, right?

The thing is, this mindset makes us obsessed with thinking "I have the right to judge which side will win." Meaning preemptive judgement based solely on the players appearance or battle record. Most of time, it's accurate, but when someone with 100 wins and 40000 losses beats you in a 1v1 match, it is simply too unbelievable. Again, this results to venting out on the forums.

Another would be 2v2 wins, where players with big egos command their partner and blame them solely for a loss regardless of whether or not his/her commands led to the path of victory. To be fair, this also caused me to stop playing 2v2 games- Instead, I chose to play Juggernaut games, where the only way for me to theoretically lose is to make a mistake.

One last thing, pragmatists are rather selfish. Despite the high amount of "Successful" players, you rarely see a guide around these parts. This is especially common in PvP-oriented MMOs where to share your technique would be fatal. On PvEs or Co-Ops, however, the amount of guides are staggering to ensure that all possible allies are competent enough for the guide-poster to maintain the feeling of "Winning" when teamed up with the readers.

After all, who would share their secrets to winning in a game that pits player against player?

*Requiring 130475 exp to reach lvl 35 from lvl 1. That's about (10873 1v1 wins at the same level, 5437 1v1 wins during power hour, same goes for 2v2 wins at the same total level and 2719 2v2 wins at the same total level during power hour

**Luck in my opinion, is a term for good or bad fate, which is, technically speaking, a philosophical term used to describe the outcomes of particular events.


quote:

Author's Notes

Brainstormed, started: 00:34, ended 1:10

I won't state a solution.

This is a discussion for you ladies and gents.


< Message edited by Khalix -- 6/15/2013 12:49:49 >


_____________________________

The 'Win' Complex
The Great Forum Schism
Unlike the general populace, I present problems AND solutions.
Epic  Post #: 1
6/6/2013 14:28:44   
xGreen Warriorx
Member

I agree with mostly everything you're saying here. Luck needs to be a part of this game. Just because it doesn't go your way doesn't mean you need to throw a fit. However, I think more of this "rage" is being taken out in-game, where many players who are mad that they are losing call their opponents noobs and start swearing. (I really hate that.)

The other thing about these "win record obsessed" people is that many of them are complaining about NPCs not counting because it means they cant have their 99% ratio from beating a computer. Its been said before, but I'll say it again: ED is a PvP game, therefore your record should be how you perform against other players.
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
6/6/2013 14:36:51   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 

quote:

I quit after my K/D R* went below 1


There is no such thing as K/D R* in this game. Only W/L.
Epic  Post #: 3
6/6/2013 14:39:58   
DunkThatOreo
Member

This is why i don't play. No one even attempts to have fun. That's the difference between beta and now. Players cared about their wins and losses but they also enjoyed having fun with others. I just ask myself how anyone
can continuously play this game without going mentally unstable. It's hard to have fun in a PvP game when the balance is awful and you're restricted to using only a small number of builds but no one seems
to even want to change that, besides Xendran as I keep saying because I truly believe Xendran's suggestions and ideas are what this game needs.

< Message edited by DunkThatOreo -- 6/6/2013 14:40:26 >
Epic  Post #: 4
6/6/2013 15:35:18   
Bloodpact
Member

Wait so y shouldn't luck based factors be able to drop below 1%?

if ur one of those support abusers with 150 support, to my 18 support.

Y is it I still crit them once in a bluemoon :/ ... when they already sacrificed
there defense deflections blocks res and attack, shouldn't there be a point were u
could possible get crit immunity(from basic things, not like bunker which is set 25%)
if the support difference is so huge. It's these small uncontrollable factors like
minimal block/deflection/crit/etc that anger so many people, myself def included >:D MEH!

A lot of the time when one of these luck factors affect my opponent I want to pass
,but then they already got a huge rage bonus if they got blocked, etc and me
passing would just set me at a disadvantage.

On another side of my brain it's "nobody every showed me the courtesy".

mofo physiology up in here!


Moral of the story everyone should just stick to the classes 1-2builds,
since there is so little room to trend.( Not really the moral of the story )



< Message edited by Bloodpact -- 6/6/2013 16:49:43 >


_____________________________

Yay War and Pestilence for everyone !

Death is in the air :] ..............
Epic  Post #: 5
6/6/2013 17:59:45   
Khalix
Member

quote:

There is no such thing as K/D R* in this game. Only W/L.


Whoopsies, W/L R, then.

---

This isn't a complaint thread by the way.
Epic  Post #: 6
6/6/2013 18:08:39   
Xendran
Member

The reason people only care about wins is simple: Battles are too short, too imbalanced, too predictable and build variety is so low, that the game simply isn't fun.
I don't think i know ANYBODY who i've talked to in the last few years who plays this game for fun. They all play for bragging rights, and treat getting wins as a tedious job that they have to do in order to earn those bragging rights.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 7
6/6/2013 20:25:34   
AxeOFury
Member

quote:

The reason people only care about wins is simple: Battles are too short, too imbalanced, too predictable and build variety is so low, that the game simply isn't fun.
I don't think i know ANYBODY who i've talked to in the last few years who plays this game for fun. They all play for bragging rights, and treat getting wins as a tedious job that they have to do in order to earn those bragging rights.

+1
AQ  Post #: 8
6/6/2013 20:28:38   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


This wasn't really a problem until delta, when about 30% of the high-level players were BH massacre builds, and other extremely similar trends such as the overused BM focus build were way too abundant. I blame it on the fact that the staff just simply hasn't been able to balance it so that more builds are more equal to each other, and that few builds stand out more than others.
Epic  Post #: 9
6/7/2013 0:05:18   
Drianx
Member

Once you buy your first few varium packs and experience the sweet taste of an OP build, you'll never want to switch to mediocrity again. That's what happens with everybody.

I think some of ED's population like it to be imbalanced, because it is the only way they can 'pwn'. Otherwise Epicduel would have been closed already, for being too expensive and imbalanced.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
6/7/2013 8:38:42   
Noobatron x3000
Member

Yeah this game is pretty much dead to me devs made to many fatal errors . I went to play another MMO a few weeks back said I'd log on ED occasionally haven't done once doubt i will again either.
Post #: 11
6/9/2013 12:08:26   
Khalix
Member

quote:

Wait so y shouldn't luck based factors be able to drop below 1%?

if ur one of those support abusers with 150 support, to my 18 support.

Y is it I still crit them once in a bluemoon :/ ... when they already sacrificed
there defense deflections blocks res and attack, shouldn't there be a point were u
could possible get crit immunity(from basic things, not like bunker which is set 25%)
if the support difference is so huge. It's these small uncontrollable factors like
minimal block/deflection/crit/etc that anger so many people, myself def included >:D MEH!

A lot of the time when one of these luck factors affect my opponent I want to pass
,but then they already got a huge rage bonus if they got blocked, etc and me
passing would just set me at a disadvantage.

On another side of my brain it's "nobody every showed me the courtesy".

mofo physiology up in here!


Moral of the story everyone should just stick to the classes 1-2builds,
since there is so little room to trend.( Not really the moral of the story )


I have absolutely no idea what you meant.

---

TL;DR version for you ladies and gents:

The Balance portion of the forums are mostly biased.
Winning is similar to being forced to work in that it's dull, boring and harsh.

< Message edited by Khalix -- 6/9/2013 12:12:43 >
Epic  Post #: 12
6/9/2013 12:14:49   
Mother1
Member

quote:

The Balance portion of the forums are mostly biased.


Indeed all I see in there mostly are people posting how to nerf something because

1 they don't want to change their build but at the same time think they should be able to beat every build
2 they are having bad luck
3 an overused build that keep beating them are using tactics on them that they want removed.

In other words anything that messes with their win rate even if it has counters that can be used they want nerfed so they can win again.
Epic  Post #: 13
6/10/2013 1:19:40   
Midnightsoul
Member

This thread to me is very accurate. I think the game needs to really spice it up...
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
6/15/2013 12:07:04   
Khalix
Member

Now now, this is a another fancy bump.

And before you accuse me of necroing, the last lovely post is 6/10.
Epic  Post #: 15
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