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Blind builds/new core/few broblem solve

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6/24/2013 10:52:14   
santonik
Member

I just think this today.

Raw example build

High HP
minimum energy
medium/high stregth
very little dex
very little tech
medium/high support

What you say these builds? I dont want make any person to angry this but i wondering where is deflections and blocks. I know core/s can overtake deflections/blocks. Tank players need block/s and deflection/s to survive.


It is good slighly nerf that rage gain? I mean pure or almoust pure stregth players. Player who is small support and much healt.


Pro Lucky cores whit high damage (support/stregth). Whit critical those make heavy damage even heaviest tank. Maybe it is good if critical damage can be nerf ligth. Support player is well-earned critical/s.

Rage damage can this sligth nerfs too. It take away 45% defences . Now many think why so much nerfs suggestion. This make battle longer duration.

Todays high damagers is advance critical+rage combination. Again some player think how?
Answer is ingored defence (critical) 45% + (rage) 45% = 90% ingored defence ??? I take those 45% to wiki. Correct this if this is wrong.
Alone critical ingored 45% defence. Im not sure it is now 45%. Wiki says it is 45%
Alone rage ingored 45% defence.

I think critical and rage both prefer more high damagers than tanks.


Now i coming blind builds. Now you think what i mean. I mean very little dex and tech builds. Basically this means heavy damager builds.My mind say that can be block/deflect often. Fastest players say yes, experienced players say no. Both is rigth. How?
Other players play this game whit out core/s and others play full arsenal cores. So core is 1 key factor this boplem. 2 key factor is debuff. Yes i mean smoke and malfuntion. These affect stats. Smoke take dextery and malf take tech. Blind builds using both key factors same time. This give blind builds advanced. How this give advance? Blind builds take out 1 negative affect out. Enemy cant block/deflect them so often and dont forgot smoke/malf destroy defences too. After smoke/malf. Blind builds begin real bombard. I believing strongly. Blind builds hit landed much often what them to intend.

This all give me idea.
What if this game coming core what can nulliy other core. I try explain this idea. This core is pure defencive and its passive. YES passive. Main purpose these core/s is prevent enemy to using own core/s. These cores can nullify some luck factors too. What i mean? This can nullify enemy pro luck cores. http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21328604. This new core works only passive. It desing against blind builds. Blind builds cant use meteor or any core against this new core. And this bring back some blocks/deflections to tanks.
Basic idea is primary core can nullify enemy primary core. Gun core can nullify enemy gun core.and etc.
What items this new core can put. Primary,gun,aux,armor and bot. why bot? Why not. This can be nullify bot specials But no regular bot hit.This new core affect only player who is this new core.

This is 1 good side affect. What that is. This can be bring back delta spirit. How. Now you can play this game (basically) whit out cores.

This new core can solve many broplem.

P.S . This new core/s need name. Make suggestion.
This time i dont use green colour at all










Epic  Post #: 1
6/24/2013 11:06:20   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

What if this game coming core what can nulliy other core. I try explain this idea. This core is pure defencive and its passive. YES passive. Main purpose these core/s is prevent enemy to using own core/s. These cores can nullify some luck factors too. What i mean? This can nullify enemy pro luck cores. http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21328604. This new core works only passive. It desing against blind builds. Blind builds cant use meteor or any core against this new core. And this bring back some blocks/deflections to tanks.
Basic idea is primary core can nullify enemy primary core. Gun core can nullify enemy gun core.and etc.
What items this new core can put. Primary,gun,aux,armor and bot. why bot? Why not. This can be nullify bot specials But no regular bot hit.This new core affect only player who is this new core.

No. Devs have said there won't be one Bot to counter them all, never. Likewise with cores, one core shouldn't nullify all the other ones.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
6/24/2013 11:11:56   
Mother1
Member

Not supported in the least. A passive core that can shut down all of your enemies cores is vastly OP as everything from azreal's will to strike is cores. Even if it was for non skill cores I don't support this as it would do the following things.

1 Make all cores from the past and future worthless since this one core shuts them down

2 even if it was thinkable this core doesn't even have a limit.


you have to remember epic duel is also a business for the staff. Add a core or cores that are this game breaking since it can shut down all their opponents cores will make people not buy cores anymore because what would be the point if you can't use them because of this one core that makes them all worthless?

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 6/24/2013 11:16:39 >
Epic  Post #: 3
6/24/2013 11:41:53   
santonik
Member

I trying solve few broblem.

@Trans
Yes that core what can nullify enemy bot special. That can be drop out. If that is neseccary.

@Mother1

Think this way. (2vs2 battle)

A and B player is same side. C and D is same side.

Im A player. You is C player

I have that new core my gun and primary. My partners is only attack cores. You cant use yours cores against me (gun and primary cores) But you can attack my partners. So this isnt OP.
1 vs 1 This dosent give edge otherways.
----This new core helps against blind builds--->Now tanks is hard times
----This core dont destroy yours core it is prevent to using against me.
----Tanks need more helps against these blind builds.
----This new core dont affect yours skill or stat at all.
---You can use aux core because idont have this new core to my aux.

Do you now understand i try explain more if you want but this my write is slow.(English isnt my main language)
Epic  Post #: 4
6/24/2013 11:49:08   
Mother1
Member

@ Santonik

One core that can shut down all other cores be it bot (which you drop) Gun, aux Etc is OP. While we have cores that can counter other cores (by making them less useful) Having one core that can make it so you can't even use your cores is OP. People would just get a full set of this gear, and cores won't serve a purpose due to this core shutting them down. It will reduce diversity, and it will case the staff to lose money from core sells.

Seriously why would anyone by new core when this nullify core can just make it useless?
Epic  Post #: 5
6/24/2013 12:00:03   
santonik
Member

Can you explain how that can be OP.
This new core/s dont doing any damage.

If you have meteor that is prevent not destroy. 1vs1 Same affect that is yours point. If i understand.

Game changes only pure stat and skill tree playing? I think players chosen own core/s. Every player can using own combination to cores. Yes try see good side too.
Epic  Post #: 6
6/24/2013 12:04:38   
Ranloth
Banned


 It renders ALL the cores useless, ONE core renders ALL of them useless. That's how it's overpowered. Devs have said that there won't be a "Counter Bot" which would counter every single Bot in-game because it would be overpowered/game-breaking, and likewise with cores (since Bots use cores)
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
6/24/2013 12:13:46   
Mother1
Member

@ santonik

Overpowered doesn't always mean damage. Overpowered also works with effects as well. This core has an overpowered effect as me and trans have said.

Also here is an old design notes that explains that everything we use in battle is 100% cores

quote:

When Omega launches, every single action you can issue in battle, including Strike, gun, bazooka, all of your skills, all of your item special abilities, and well, everything is now handled by a 100% new "core-based" battle engine. Sound fancy? That's partly because it is. If you haven't heard, the 9500-lines-of-code-long battle engine that is the heart of EpicDuel has been rewritten for this release.
Epic  Post #: 8
6/24/2013 13:03:49   
santonik
Member

If this new cores changes this way.

IF It eat 15% enemy cores damage.
This is broblem. now we coming again this tank broblem. Less deflection and blocks. Remember what enemy cores can doing.
Meteor and other attack cores too.

This new core make more give changes play against these Blind builds.
This new core dont give automatical victory. Maybe limit is key that threat what you saying.
Maybe this limit to gun,aux and primary.

Bot and armor can be drop. Im not angry is these drop.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blind build

Raw example build

High HP
minimum energy
medium/high stregth
very little dex
very little tech
medium/high support
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STill i think not every player buy all set this new core.
Player buying normally newest cores. Why? because they want know better how core/s work. No matter what is this new core.
Always can be make new suggestion/s. Anybody can make anti core this. What i suggestion (this new core/s)

Now i going ahead this situation. Yes we have this day cores. it is ok. Then coming my suggestion (new core) then coming anti versio my suggestion.

End situation is rock,paper and scissors. No any more OP anything. THIS GIVE ME ANOTHER IDEA.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANTI VERSIO This core/s is passive too. This is can doing 5% more damage against this my (new core) others cores this is useless.
This works this way
A player is anti versio whit gun and aux
B player is (new core) whit primary and gun

A player using gun core that doing extra damage. B player heal
A player using aux core Nothing special happens because B player isnt that (new core) in aux

Is this Rock,paper,scissors thinghs better. Now player can buying all type cores.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically 2 set cores

(new core)---can put primary,gun and aux
and
ANTIVERSIO---can put primary,gun and aux

Dont say op Because this make Rock,paper,scissors affect.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give yours suggestion. Dont every say its OP. Always can effort. Always can help each other/s.
Epic  Post #: 9
6/24/2013 13:31:18   
Ranloth
Banned


 I know we shouldn't mock one's English skills because it's rude and not necessary, but would you be able to make it clearer (simpler) or use Google Translate if needed? So translate from your native language to English which could make this much easier to understand.

Also, "blind build" doesn't exist. Your example is Str/Support build which works for TMs and why is it blind? It's the same with tanks, their purpose is to minimize damage and take it slowly whilst "blind build" of yours focuses on high damage and takes in high damage, in other words it's a glass cannon build. It's not a blind build. It provides variety and can be countered. Tanks are also blind builds, what about them? All focus on one - defence. I really don't know what you're trying to achieve by getting rid of these blind builds.

As of to counter cores, they are not going to be ever made. Under any circumstances. One core shouldn't be able to counter all the other cores, regardless of how they do it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 10
6/24/2013 13:47:15   
DarkDevil
Member

well , first things first.
the blind builds are hard to be beaten on the ordianry noluck game where no block nor deflection nor crict happen because of their damage and hp superiority , now this is not usually a problem for nerfing builds because they can maximize those chances but for builds that doesnt have malf or smoke which are half the game classes , it will be a problem.
the strongest of them are the two hunters and the merc.
now the bounty has its well-known bloodlust which makes him regain up to 10 hp a turn which is about 50 in the end of fight.
the cyber has both a shield and malf and wrost thing about cybers having it is because instead of investing points in tech they invest in support, this doesnt affect focus 5 builds but only works in favor of blind builds where they can have a 100+ supp without losing much armor.
last but not least the merc and the blind build of it is the well known support merc but this one also has high str instesad of any armor and with some points in adrenaline he can simply get a rage on every 3rd turn so even 80 hp is enough cus by 4th turn youll die of this strategy..
aux > multi > rage double strike > azreal will > aux > rage attack if you survived that long already.
and he will get the first turn due to support and with hybrid armor he will have 20 armor without investing any points in protection.
the only way to beat him is to deflect the first hit and take his energy or blocking the rage somehow since he can die in 3 turns the problem is youll die before the 3rd turn anyway.
the only way is to remove the passives cus they cant afford a turn to activate them which will be done after the dread war.

about that core its just a bad idea to make a core that counter all cores , cus then everyone will buy it and ignore cores then why not remove the cores ?
the answer is no , cores are added to make verstility and more strategy into game so drop the idea please , you are just trolling.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 6/24/2013 15:04:37 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
6/24/2013 14:52:37   
santonik
Member

High HP
minimum energy
medium/high stregth
very little dex
very little tech
medium/high support


I gave it the name on purpose. (Blind build) Because it should not be a round to hit 100% and at full power. Well message to everybody is writing errors. I think they come to me a little too much sometimes. I agree. This google translator does not always work as desired. But I could add this to some extent, the use of forums out there. My language is completely different from the rules of the English language. it is much more difficult time learning the language.

Yes yes they tank the characters tend to take hits but they are not usually very good at giving blow back. Tank characters have difficult conditions. Especially when the opponent uses the debuff. smoke and Malf. they are they already being taken to reduce the opponent's points. (stat). This is something which I tried to address this matter. New core proposal was originally to have more block and deflection. Now I'm in a glass cannons are strong, perhaps too much. as the core allows for 100% hit to cap it all, and give more damage. I did that on purpose ANTI-CORE. I did not do this in any vexatious so even if someone thought he should. I did ANTI-CORE in their original proposal. First of all, it represents a corea against. many probably think that I did this in haste, or just bullying on purpose. this is not so. Second call for proposals is the first proposal. this consists of a triangle effect. this could bring to the game balance. if not much for so little, however.

I using now google translator (blue text) Translator isnt always good. Sometimes yes.
Epic  Post #: 12
6/24/2013 16:44:27   
The Incredible Hulk
Banned

 
quote:

I know we shouldn't mock one's English skills because it's rude and not necessary, but would you be able to make it clearer (simpler) or use Google Translate if needed? So translate from your native language to English which could make this much easier to understand.


Google translator is mostly wrong unless if you use a key word, that's when it is helpful. Once I was looking for a english word which was Preservatives which gave me a meaning in french, when my french teacher marked it, she said to me that is a ''rude word'', ad she knew I used google translator ^^.
Epic  Post #: 13
6/24/2013 20:54:06   
santonik
Member

2 set cores

(new core)---This will be able to put these primary,gun and aux ( 3 similar cores.)
Defensive player gun core is able to prevent the attacking player's gun core. The same thing is primary and aux.

This does not destroy the opposing cores. Here are a few which will be able to prevent the attack.
Energy Storm, Frostbite, Frost Shards, Jack-O-Fire, Meteor Shower, Meteor Plasma, Stun Blast, Stun Shot, Thorn Assault, Primary Mastery,Gun Mastery,Auxiliary Mastery and Massive Strike.
Able to change these if necessary. This does not affect the opponent's other cores

This would prevent at least one of a punch which otherwise would not be able to deflect or block.
This is just one opportunity to help a lot.

Gun core. Able to protect the core of the opponent's gun.
Aux core. Able to protect the core of the opponent's aux.
Primary core. Able to protect the core of the opponent's primary.
So this is yet. 2-on-2 situations, this works only the core of their owner.


and

ANTI VERSIO---This will be able to put these primary,gun and aux ( 3 similar cores.)
This is a counterpart (new core).
If you have a gun, this (ANTI VERSION core) and your opponent has a (new core). (ANTI VERSION core) will give you 5% more damagee. why 5%. This is a passive core. This core is able to re-use. This core is useless if your opponent has a different core.
So this is yet. 2-on-2 situations, this works only the core of their owner.


Now these two suggestions for should not be any more superior ..

I using google translator again.

Tell me what this should still be changed if I need an alter. Do not bother to tell me that this would be a waste of time.
Epic  Post #: 14
6/25/2013 0:44:26   
Midnightsoul
Member

@santonik

I like your ideas and your attitude. It proved to be pretty polite, but...

even though I do not how strong debuffs are and these strength builds, one simple rule right now is cores should not affect other cores.

In a justified manner, I prefer if there was a core that can make other cores into cooldown for a couple of turns, but right now, we do not know if this is balanced or possible. But remember to keep in mind that anything can happen.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
6/25/2013 8:58:27   
DarkDevil
Member

quote:

about that core its just a bad idea to make a core that counter all cores , cus then everyone will buy it and ignore cores then why not remove the cores ?
the answer is no , cores are added to make verstility and more strategy into game so drop the idea please , you are just trolling.


i don't have to repeat my words again
just drop the core thing , we are all trying to explain why its a bad idea yet you are insisting on it so i request an AK to look this and reply.

tell me what will happen if each and every player in game bought all those cores , so this suggestion is kind of a complaining on the existance of the cores where everyone will use his passives to counter actives and actives will be lock so both passive and active cores will be removed from the game , find reason in your words.
on 2 vs 2 if the 4 players had it then it will just be the same since if 1 can get it then all can get it.
about the anti-core thing yet everyone will buy it to break the new core so you end up by removing the passive cores from game for the sake of active not being removed.

other thing which those cores will do is that they will increase the gap between ppl who can afford it and ppl who can't where you are just brining us back to beta and even worse where the gap between two ppl of different equipment where huge.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 6/25/2013 9:15:43 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 16
6/25/2013 9:32:20   
Ranloth
Banned


 A core can counter another core, such as FrostBite or FrostShard and Generator, but when one core counters all the existing + future cores then it will not happen. If a Bot countering another Bot was not allowed to happen, this is even more for a no. It's common sense.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
6/25/2013 11:56:47   
santonik
Member

The basic idea is that these glass cannons would be able to give as often clean hits. Glass cannons rotate the opponent's strengths perfectly. What do I think of this. This. Mietitääs how the kernel is used against tanks. The basic idea here is this. That would hit a lot more hits tank. And in between the bigger the damage. Tankeja in there is already a good ways. Do not get me wrong now. There is a critical and rage. Together, these will help you so much its own merits. that when added to those of nuclear attacks. So then must achieving a very tough attacks. maybe a little too hard. Tanks really need help now. Tanks are not able to now, blocking and deflecting the opponent's attacks correctly. The kernel will do this. That's why I suggested to begin with the same proposal. It was too strong suggestion. It was said, and it was a new idea. New core and ANTI VERSION. Now I come to this new core. This is to prevent your opponent from making you 100% of core attacks. This may sound too strong, but this will make the new core damage at all. These attacks should be good to go through what this new core would be affected. That's why I did according to the average conditions of the attacks. They can and may modify the game in favor of equal weight. ANTI VERSION is the counterpart of the new core. ANTI EDITION good side is that it also has a passive skill. It sounds strange at first or what. But imagine this ANTI VERSION in this way. If this should be activated so this is it would not be a good core. However, when this is passive so that is precisely all the time. This ANTI VERSION core will only work against the new corea. And to give 5% more damage. Sound a lot compared to the plasma meteor or the other to the core. Meteor able to use only once. ANTI VERSION able to use many times, has the disadvantage of only a block and deflect.

I dropped the bot core and the core armor. Bot core is probably too much. that's why I take it then that if any of you want it by. I'll tell what would've been its purpose. it would've been to just to prevent the opponent's bot specialty making. Not to destroy it.

I thought the same of the new armor specialist. as vatustaja able to make 100% hit the core. Chairman's Furysimilar attacks. This does not destroy the opposing cores. This prevents unnecessary shocks drank 100% can not block or deflect. Again, these should be brought to the game a little more balance. But the game creators ultimately decide what happens.

Let's work together. job. I've been trying to say that a number of other propositions can always be edited. And to make their own policies on the basis of the tableau. do not be offended if the other conditions of the tableau makes suggestions for you. I see sometimes unnecessary. comments. I mean by this that clearly states that this is bad, this would have to poistaa.Tämäkin has been recalled. Sometimes the nasty comments is good comments. In general, I see a comment on the pros and cons. I do not always. because English is not my main language. But worth the always comment. Many heads are always better than one head.

I do not want to be a troublemaker I know that all can and can make all the good suggestions and even better suggestions.

Edit: The basic idea is that these glass cannons would be able to give as often clean hits. Glass cannons rotate the opponent's strengths perfectly. What do I think of this. This. You wonder how the core is used against tanks. The basic idea here is this. That would hit a lot more hits tank. And in between the bigger the damage. Tanks in there is already a good ways. Do not get me wrong now. There is a critical and rage. Together, these will help you so much its own merits. that when added to those of nuclear attacks. So then must achieving a very tough attacks. maybe a little too hard. Tanks really need help now. Tanks are not able to now, blocking and deflecting the opponent's attacks correctly. The kernel will do this. That's why I suggested to begin with the same proposal. It was too strong suggestion. It was said, and it was a new idea. New core and ANTI VERSION. Now I come to this new core. This is to prevent your opponent from making you 100% of core attacks.


I'm sorry for the old version had errors.

Edit: Nuclear=core

I dont know why this changes this automatically ;/

My original text read core.


< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 6/25/2013 13:53:51 >
Epic  Post #: 18
6/25/2013 13:13:50   
DarkDevil
Member

not because it has an anti means it should be OP.
if something is OP doesn't mean u should make anti but to make it balanced.
the idea of 1 passive core to disable all the active cores is very OP so its refused , read my posts again i don't have to repeat them everytime.
AQ Epic  Post #: 19
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