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10/8/2013 19:06:56   
Drayer King
Member

Ahh, it sure has been a while since i have been on the forums. Many of you would not know who i am but those who played durring the beta and gamma phase sure would remember.

The almighty BH Str build that trumped the Heal looping Tech mages.

That phase sure was fun. As for me my used to be old ign was "cyalater" the inventor the that build with over 130+ str and 145 hp, and only base mp of 45 to do the mass (lv5). The build that killed Heal looping tech mages in 4 turns with mass if not 5 with rage gun.

Enough about me, when i came back to this game it reminded me of all the friends i made, all the factions i joined, and the reason why i played, why i made the builds i made. Many of those who still know me know i am currently playing 2 v 2, but why only 2 v 2? and rarely in 1 v 1? well truth be told the game has lost its essence of "FUN" in 1v1.

The current problem i find with players these days are lets play the BM str build because it gets win. Well yes sure it does but where does the creativity come from? do you enjoy playing a build just because it wins? Has this game alone become a "let me play to win?" Many complaints from those in the Epicduel Balance page are all complaining about ways to "nerf" a build. HOWEVER most players should be asking "How do i improve on my class/build and become better. Those who can break the mold and become an original build maker will bypass those str builds and prove to themselves and others that BM are not OP.

POINTS:
1) passive skills will become (not passive).. I do agree with the devs on this, makes the game better. No more deadly aim blood lust, reroute, all those free skills.
2) cores: puts some diversity into the game, not a lot because some core of better then others hands down
3) classes: there are some really good classes but it all comes down to the player. I personally fell in love with BH and could never make a build for any other class except bh. Unless it was a str merc, or a str mage, no diversity between that fell in love with STR builds nonetheless.
4) the players: i seen players make fun of each other but all in all this is a game have fun.

To finialize this up have we the players from alpha/beta to omega lost our way of gaming? Have we just become win hungry players who play with out originality and win?

Honestly i plan on making new builds for classes that combat each other and str builds in general and hope they work, if they do i will post them on the build susguesstions. But do remember i am a 2 v 2 player now and i love my 2 v2 build will be posting that shortly in a day or 2 of this post.

Enjoy and REMEMBER play for fun, and Neva Give Up (my dear friend's faction. Thank you Jatar the Legend for being a great leader)
Epic  Post #: 1
10/9/2013 9:14:59   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

To finialize this up have we the players from alpha/beta to omega lost our way of gaming? Have we just become win hungry players who play with out originality and win?

It was always about winning. All the talking about creative builds is too about winning.
People make unusual builds to play around and find better builds to increase their win rate.
A strenght / HP build that relies on only 1 skill (Massacre) isnt creative at all. Its about fast
and easy wins. The same reason for that now so many people class changed to BM.

_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 2
10/9/2013 9:48:17   
Mother1
Member

Creatively and diversity? Ha that is a good one. The masses don't care about that. For the masses Winning > diversity and creativity. Why would they want to be creative and risk the possibility of losing when they can just copy something they know gives results even if it is overused? This is why we have so much of the same builds running and this is why we have people complaining wanting these builds nerfed. Worst part about that is that the builds being used aren't overpowered just overused most of the time.
Epic  Post #: 3
10/9/2013 11:31:36   
Sensei Chan
Member

@Mother1 I can't even remember a time when I have really enjoyed playing EpicDuel since Omega came, everything has turned boring and much harder, today I turned level 36 and I decided to play Juggernaut and I come across two Level 30's and there stats were almost as high as mine not to mention there was two of them so they can malfunction and smoke screen me I was literally stunned how fast they killed me I have lost all hope in Juggernaut now! Now let's start on 2V2 and 1V1, Blood Mage's are everywhere and there dominating with strength builds, People like Trans say there are counters but he is false the only real way you can beat them is with LUCK!
Epic  Post #: 4
10/9/2013 13:31:27   
Thylek Shran
Member

The only way to counter BMs is to have more damage output but thats hardly possible.
Defensive buffs donīt work because the attacker just gain rage fast and Bludgeon ignores
defenses partially.

There are now two duel modes that have been destroyed and 2vs2 had become a game of
luck already because there are to many broken builds and runners and the level matching
is very poor. Sometimes I loose 5-10 2vs2 duels successively just because of weak low
level partners while the opponents are level 35/36.

The most of us know the huge balance problems. The point is why the devs ignore all this
since many months ?! Maybe its a desired effect.
DF Epic  Post #: 5
10/9/2013 14:26:37   
martinsen5
Member

@Thylek Shran, Well for one thing, they are planning on making passive skills active soon. It has also been mentioned that a balance patch won't happen until /after/ the war ends, as it would force people to change builds in the middle of it. I'm sure they read the forums, and I'm sure they're aware of a couple issues with the current balance.

They also... probably have addressed a lot of these issues too? They're just not fixing things until after the war.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
10/9/2013 15:19:06   
Mother1
Member

@ Martinsen5

While this is true, and while a lot of people know this, they don't care. They want balance fixed so that the current overused builds will be taken down enough for them to win, or so those builds stop appearing due to them not being so effective.

Epic  Post #: 7
10/9/2013 15:45:47   
charwelly
Member

That's false I'm a blood Mage and are getting beaten by tech mages all the time, Bounty hunters with a strong defense build.

_____________________________

Retired Again.
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
10/9/2013 15:52:32   
martinsen5
Member

@charwelly, Well of course, no build is impossible to counter (as far as I know)

@Mother1, Yeah I honestly wouldn't mind a few balance changes right now, myself. I am however afraid my BH 5 focus build will need some re-working once balance changes are made, struggled really hard to make something work as good as the build I'm using now, shame it won't last long
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
10/9/2013 18:09:38   
toopygoo
Member

@ Drayer

itd be magnificent to have players like you back in the game. TBH i ahev given up on wins cause they really dont matter to me. i just want to play some fair games, that dont have any luck stats involved, and play for the heck of it. try out some huge damage builds and whatnot.
i tried some fun builds with a smoke and a massacre level 10, and dealt 82 damage once :) it was fun, and then raged cheap-shot fro 56.
these are what i miss from older game plays. people HAVING FUN! im sick of finding a "winning build" cause its boring using the same strategy over and over again to claim victory. i like the challenge, and the thrill of suprising my opponents and myself :) i try to stick to the roots this game has shown me.

And you know what? i think without this forum, diversity would be much greater:
look at the "build suggestions" section
look at the balance section

people keep reminding us of what is "strong/OP" and teaching them how to employ it. also we have players who keep reminding us only winning is fun, and who refuse to change their builds because then they would no longer have fun.

im speaking fromt eh eyes of someone who has tried it all! YES WE CAN HAVE FUN WITHOUT WINNING! with a 31, i managed to succesfullly get 5 35's in a row down to 1-3 health, and lost due to a critical! and its not cause of i got lucky. its cause i chose to live outside the boundaries SHOWN to me by other players, and try my own thing. that build i believe has won me 5-1 at level 31, and you know what? today, im gonna change it again. try it. its only 250 credits. build something new!
-Toopy
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
10/9/2013 20:59:13   
kaiseryeux21
Member

i changed class just 3 days ago from BM to CH. yes, i changed to CH. I could have changed to merc, bh or tlm but i decided to changed to CH. Some of my friends even asked me, why CH?? it's the less used class at this moment. As if its true, it doesn't mean the class is UP. It's that not so many (kids oh i mean players) are mature enough to realize that. What we see right now are factions with all members having the same class, same build, and same stats. they are not real players actually, they are just drones who doesn't care about winning percentage but simply to have fast wins. I can even remember someone suggested that the leaderboards should not only based on the number of wins, it has to do something with the win/loss percentage. I know this will be a bit complicated and hard to decide but i guess its time the devs consider that. Well, we cannot blame those players if they choose to be a str bm because the current balance and system that we have somehow forced them to be like that. Something has to be done here actually. They dev's knew that, but somehow its up to them to make the necessary changes.

< Message edited by kaiseryeux21 -- 10/9/2013 21:01:03 >
DF Epic  Post #: 11
10/9/2013 21:45:33   
Mother1
Member

@ Kaiseryeux21

That suggestion was mine. But yeah many factions I have seen are doing that. I know some people in my faction do the same thing, but lucky for me it isn't everyone. I know some people in my faction (myself included) who don't use the common overused builds that are being used by the masses and we still manage to beat those overused builds.

I just wish that some of those players would see that you don't need to use an overused build to get decent wins.
Epic  Post #: 12
10/9/2013 22:22:24   
kaiseryeux21
Member

@mother, yeah ur right. Overused DOESNT mean overpowered. Easy to understand, but hard to accept (for some). I dont want to vindicate myself from this because i myself tried to be a str. bm but it only last for atleast 1 day. Yes i do win alot but does it mean im a better player?? NO. i just won because i am using a build that is more superior offensively compare to other classes.

< Message edited by kaiseryeux21 -- 10/9/2013 22:24:22 >
DF Epic  Post #: 13
10/9/2013 22:23:24   
GearzHeadz
Member

I have a creative and different build. Lose ALL the time. I just refuse to use a generic build. I like to be different.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
10/11/2013 8:27:47   
Drayer King
Member

@toopygoo

Thanks, i currently still have my level 35 founder account, playing 2 v2 once in a while, i just started playing my alt account on my main, it is now level 18 with a 300+ win and under 90 losses. not a bad record and im using a high dex build. Also on the leaderboard i earned a 81.2% win rate 4th highest and i was only level 12 at that time.

Also for 2 v 2 i am playing as a BH with out energy bubble and my friends all ask why no bubble? i personally dont see a use for it as in 2 v 2 you rely on your partner and not call other "noobs" when 2 combine and become one you have a better time playin and become almost unbeatable.

i personally won 5-6 2 v 2 against 35 35 with soemone called "L A R A. . ." who is a 31 having fun is key, ill post my build on the strategy post once i have time, been having to much fun playing a level 18 account. will be back on my 35 once the update is back.

have fun keep playing, builds will follow.

@Thylek Shran

i understand relaying on one skill is not "creative" but at the time when tech mages ruled with heal looping it was considered Original and Creative as it wasnt a build that just prolonged games, it ended games asap. THen people copied the build after Heal looping was nerfed to 4 turn cool down. Once BH was copied, it was nerfed and str needed more skills, then Balance CAME.

These are all examples of the "status quo" as power changes people change to hate the new power "anti status quo" Which leaves a power struggle, being creative is a personal thing, not what others think, however those who are succesfull at being creative have their own personal build, their own win rate, and have fun above all beating those "OP low ratio builds"
Epic  Post #: 15
10/12/2013 16:47:41   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

quote:

Blood Mage's are everywhere and there dominating with strength builds, People like Trans say there are counters but he is false the only real way you can beat them is with LUCK!


wrong. a way I thought of is spamming a level 1 surgical so that you can rage many times more than them, and eventually outdamage them.

(tlm)

04-06-10
01-05-00
10-00-00
01-00-00

the double strike and bloodshield are used against str support mage and CH.

i thought of a strategy that includes 80-90 hp

you can try it if you want.

it also includes infernal android.

Note( i havent tried it yet, but i have seen and noticed that builds with surgical seem to help)

< Message edited by ED Divine Darkness -- 10/12/2013 16:49:42 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 16
10/12/2013 16:58:01   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

Blood Mage's are everywhere and there dominating with strength builds, People like Trans say there are counters but he is false the only real way you can beat them is with LUCK!

And it's a problem because? Unless no one can beat them or minority with massive amount of luck, they are not overpowered. Your build will NOT be unbeatable against everyone - you will lose. If you must rely on luck 100% of the time to win against them, you need to revise your build, because some people find Str BMs a complete pushover, whilst some struggle.

Overused =/= overpowered. If you refuse to try different counters (builds), then it's not balance's problem but yours. Another example of a working builds against them is the above post. Mercenaries should cope with them easily too, thanks to Static Smash and their natural tankiness + looping skills.

Lastly, you were just proven wrong by Divine Darkness (above). Don't accuse people when the problem may be on your side, not the game's.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
10/12/2013 20:07:00   
DeathGuard
Member

People have chances to beat the so ''OP'' BMs, they're tiring and repetitive but they're beatable. I'm using a 4 focus build based on smoke, stun grenade, multi and cheap shot. When I lvl up it will be a 5 focus build with all the skills mentioned before but with some bonus skill: Massacre. While diversity of skills may seem silly, they help in any situation. It may not have an ''awesome ratio'' but I enjoy the fights, if not won by ''luck'' that is.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
10/13/2013 6:51:21   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

I do absolutely nothing to warrant players asking about my build. When people do ask me about my build, this is always their build. I simply just play.

http://prntscr.com/1x0r5g
http://prntscr.com/1x0r72

I lose some, win some, I just play while I watch TV.
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
10/13/2013 7:15:51   
wireclub1990
Banned

 

 ^ Yup that good damn build 80% atleast of all the fights I play in 1v1 I'm up against it even 2v2 its almost in every battle . To a point I can't stay logged in more then 5 fights anymore .

Its not OP though and it doesn't work far too effectively . Most people are using Bm's with that build because it doesn't work better then the largest majority of any other bm build can offer and any other class can offer it sucks that's why everyone's using it. Don't do anything about it everyone should stop complaining the largest majority of the player base should stay with that build see how that works out for ya people who think their is nothing wrong with it.

< Message edited by wireclub1990 -- 10/13/2013 7:16:40 >
Post #: 20
10/13/2013 9:12:20   
Ranloth
Banned


 @above & Valkyrie
That Str build is tempting, since I'm a BM myself. But I prefer to use my Plasma Cannon build which was also overused at some point but now, it's quite rare (again). The amount of times people ask "y u no str bm?" or just saying my build sucks because... it's not Str spam is.. eh. >.>

I do admit Str BM does work better than any other BM build but we can blame the synergy and past few nerfs (excluding change to stat progression) which have indirectly buffed normal builds - thus causing them to be overused but not overpowered.

Also, I've seen some people mocking the logic of "playing for fun". Often they'll just look at your ratio, see your build and say whatever comes to their mind + avoid the filter so they can express themselves in the best way possible. The concept of 'winning > diversity' is one, but pair it together with the toxic community, and we have the worst combo possible.
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
10/13/2013 18:25:21   
nico0las
Member

quote:

To finialize this up have we the players from alpha/beta to omega lost our way of gaming? Have we just become win hungry players who play with out originality and win?

I was thinking about this post in the shower (what can I say, I'm pretty cool) and I think I know how to answer properly.

We, the betas and gammas, came from an age where gear was never important. Beta and some of Gamma wasn't very dependent on gear so much as the builds. There was a lot of flexibility in building and we could get away with a lot of stuff. Some of the most powerful builds in this game existed in Gamma and Beta (Str BH, Caster mage, Loop heal mage, Support mage, Strength Merc, Support Merc, I could go on). The best players to ever play this game come from Beta and Gamma because that was when skill was most highly rewarded. Mind you, I'm not talking about players with a lot of wins or high win rates, I'm talking about the players you face who completely crush you and leave you thinking about the battle the rest of the day, thinking "wow that was really well played on his/her part". Players who joined anywhere between late Gamma and now are spoiled. They know nothing other than dependence on gear and recycled builds, and because of this Delta was a complete flop. It's not their fault, it's the world that they came in to on Epicduel. The principle of "skill" was completely lost on the newest generation of players, and any illusion of it is really just a powerful build mixed with good gear.

I think the leaderboards are to blame for this. The strive to have an excellent win rate, to crush "noobs", to be admired/respected by the rest of the community drove players to abuse powerful builds, and made players realize that without the ever increasingly powerful gear, they would never be able to compete or reach the top of these boards. The drive to be the best killed all originality Epicduel had at a 1v1 level. We became completely dependent on recycling builds and the gear that was fed to us.

Personally, I never invested my money into gear because I felt like I never needed it. I've always believed that if I'm going to win a battle, I'm going to use my own skill and ability rather than depend on gear.

Money cannot buy skill. I think this statement covers the vast majority of problems you addressed in your post. We, the older players, value and respect skill and that's what we cried out for, which eventually caused the birth of Omega (admittedly now we are more dependent on gear than ever before). We've become so obsessed with the prospect of winning that we gave up everything that we were. We sold our souls to the devil in exchange for the illusion that we are better now than we were then. The best players nowadays are those who carry the old values, the old way of playing Epicduel, regardless of what phase they joined ED.

I think yes, we have become win hungry and sold our originality and "skill" at the price of a good win rate. Was the sacrifice worthwhile? I think some would say it was, whilst others such as myself would say it was a terrible idea.

Lastly, a lot people are obviously going to disagree with my post and some of the things I've said. I think what I've said here is true enough and while not everything is 100% accurate, the essence of what I'm trying to say has been well communicated.
I'm fairly certain the older players here know exactly what I'm talking about in this post.

< Message edited by nico0las -- 10/13/2013 18:26:47 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
10/15/2013 23:50:15   
Pemberton
Member
 

 I like how BMs think they are the best just because they copy builds or make "new" BM builds but they don't realize the class itself is imbalanced.
Post #: 23
10/16/2013 2:23:12   
Ranloth
Banned


 And for 234924230409th time, overused =/= imbalanced. Before Plasma Bolt was altered, we've seen much more TMs and very few Str BMs (more were relying on Plasma Cannon). Now after Bolt's nerf, there's very few Plasma Cannon BMs and much more Str BMs.

Goes to show it's not the class being overpowered but builds being overused and players who don't want to bother finding a counter just claim it's overpowered. And no, despite being a BM, I'm nowhere near having a Str build.
AQ Epic  Post #: 24
10/16/2013 17:14:46   
Shajun Ki
Member

@Nicolas, that was a good post and I think you are right in everything you typed there. There was A LOT more diversity and strategy going on in those days and I would know because I joined during late beta but left early gamma due to personal reasons.
It's nice to see an old player's perspective on things because they usually know what they're talking about and have the experience of playing since the beginning to back it up.
Post #: 25
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