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Are stun based builds a bit too promising(Low Levels)

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1/20/2014 11:47:12   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 So I have been messing around in the low levels on two of my alts and I have noticed a lot of stun based builds and I have yet to find a draw back to them.

For those of you who haven't been playing in the kiddie pool section lately stun based builds for the most part are mages or bhs who put a large amount of stock into Dex to power up their stun skill.

Now at the high levels stuns are annoying as anything but at the low levels stuns are more akin to a kiss of death just because the skills, skill tree skills mind you, aren't flushed out to the point that you can have a back up if your plan falls apart.

Mages. A stun build for a mage is normally dex spamming with a mid leveled overload and plasma rain because they both scale with dex and when you couple them together you can get in upwards of 650 damage. 650 is a good hit for high leveled players but for low level players that is all or most of their health. Now you can counter that with an energy drain skill right? Wrong two of the starter classes don't get an energy drain until level 10 which is where stun based builds really start to soar. Oh the other perk to a stun based build is a high amount of dex which increases their block rate and since there are a lot of physical weapons floating around you have some tank aspects to you as well.

BH. This stun build is normally just a high level stun grenade and frankly is not as strong as a tech mages stun build because it doesn't have the same synergy with any of it's skills as overload and plasma rain. The real perk of a BH's stun build in my mind is the added bonus of Static Grenade making you the counter to a mages stun build if you go first or don't get stunned. Also because it is a dex based build you do increase the effectiveness of your four blockable skills along with normal strike just because you are less likely to be blocked. The catch here is finding a balance between dex and strength because if you spam dex like a mage you only have Stun grenade and Multi-Shot(which is also tier three and not connected to stun in any form) to use.

Mercs. I'll be honest I haven't seen many if any stun based mercs so I don't know if it is viable for them.

Leave your two cents of if it is a problem or not or if you have tried playing around with these builds at a low level

Edit: Directly after posting this I fought a tech mage who showed every part of the stun based build except for the high damage of the skill combo. Stun, blocking, not being blocked, and low strike damage. Go figure

< Message edited by One Winged Angel1357 -- 1/20/2014 11:51:20 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
1/20/2014 12:20:06   
Ranloth
Banned


 I've thought about it before, how Stun builds are popular in the low/mid-level range but less common at higher level - massive shift from one to the other. The problem is with balancing such effects...

Stun skills deal minimally less damage than pure-damaging skills, to pay for the effect.
Raising EP cost doesn't fix it either, because some classes can cope with high EP cost, so it'd be an unnecessary change.
Putting higher damage penalty would affect everyone, which is bad if we want to balance it at all levels or make it affect one level range only.
This leaves lowering chance to stun at all levels, and buffing damage where required - and the only one, imo, that'd require a buff, would be Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade.

I was thinking along the lines of reducing all Stun skills' effects by 5%, down to 25% for Stun/Plasma Grenade and Overload, and -5% across the board for Maul. With a buff to both Grenades, both could become viable skills for damage and still retain their effect.

Furthermore, the whole "you cannot block if stunned" concept could be removed. You're already gaining a free turn + don't take any damage, so why should you get even more? Stun effect should come at a penalty, not get a massive boost over pure damage.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
1/20/2014 13:59:32   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 Maybe shift the cannot block when stunned to your block chance is reduced by 5% bottoming out at 0%.

Aside from that you are right about it being a major change in thought along the line from stun based builds to I'm just going to beat you into submission at the level cap
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
1/20/2014 14:09:41   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Yea, technically if you are stunned, you can still randomly flail your arms (or roll if you were electrocuted) hoping to not get hit.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
1/20/2014 14:48:32   
Remorse
Member

Tech mages are way to strong low with this build but thats because of battery being free in my opinion.
Bhs stun grenade build is so much easier to counter and thus not a problem but still strong agreed

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/20/2014 14:52:34 >
Epic  Post #: 5
1/20/2014 20:29:18   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 @Remorse most of the low mage stun builds only have points in Overload and Plasma rain. Then they have enough energy for two overloads and plasma rain so draining them isn't exactly useful unless you have a monster of a static grenade
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 6
1/20/2014 20:43:50   
Remorse
Member

^Surviving 2 is easy which is why the 3 or 4th needs to be drained or countered but that is extremely hard with battery and hence the problem.
Epic  Post #: 7
1/20/2014 21:14:29   
Supreme Havox
Member

Yes yes yes yes yes. Tech mages just spam dex and use those two skills. I mean like, tech mages should be energy based, but it only gives it one energy skill besides Supercharge which is level 10 and has a 3 turn cool down.
I don't see alot of bounty hunters do this though, which suprises me actually.
Mercs never never never the last time I saw one was in Delta.

Maybe change the stat modifires for one of the skills.
Post #: 8
1/20/2014 21:38:33   
Jekyll
Member

Certainly, stun is by far the most effective build at lower levels.

TMs (dex) can use Overload+Plasma Rain, BHs (dex) can use Stun+Multi-Shot, Mercs (str) can use Maul+Berserker.

What if the stat which improves respective stun attacks (e.g. dex for mages and BH) isn't allowed to improve another skill? Just a long shot, might not even work.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
1/20/2014 23:33:52   
Pemberton
Member
 

 Stuns is the only thing making this game unpredictable.
Post #: 10
1/25/2014 20:59:49   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 To Bump my own thread it seems Stun builds are gaining even more popularity as the number of Dex based BH's seems to be gaining even more popularity while the number of Dex based mages is still all
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
1/26/2014 3:17:08   
DarkDevil
Member

actually its because of str , where they need dex to avoid block.

edit: overal caster builds gain highest output on low lvls.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 1/26/2014 10:46:33 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
1/26/2014 9:50:00   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 I'm going to have to challenge that. On these stun builds once you remove their energy they do basically no damage a hit because they have funneled everything into dexterity. I tried this build just over 24 wins and came up with three categories to check my win ratio. Overall I had a 66% because I got smashed by two level 17 stun mages for awhile. Against people close to my level I had a 73% ratio. And against different players( each individual player was one win or lose based on my win rate against that player ) I was also pulling a 73% win ratio. Now the difference in my build and the normal bh stun build is I invested a little in support for first strike and improved stun chance plus aux damage.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
1/26/2014 13:01:41   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 Stun damage should scale based on level mainly. The % ignore should also scale with level. At low levels you don't have much def/resistance so the damage is high for a good chance to stun. You might get an extra 20 damage or so from a stun, but it isn't really noticeable. But at high levels you ignore more defense but because you have more to ignore if the stun lands, you do less damage in the first place. Stun becomes less worth it at high levels because the damage you get from a stun working isn't worth the pitiful damage you get from just the stun alone if it doesn't work.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
1/26/2014 14:04:28   
DarkDevil
Member

its just that on higher lvls tech has higher priority than dex due to bot , as prove i was able to build a very successfull stun tech build for cyber because it is on tech.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
1/27/2014 20:34:36   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


 My original assessment was actually wrong. Low levels sure you see a lot of mages with stun builds but as you get closer to level 20 like I am doing on my Youtube based Alt the number of stun builds around the board increases. Stun Zerker is now into play and more players have figured out how to spam dex for stun multi.


ND your idea for stun is looking pretty nice right about now
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
1/27/2014 20:54:21   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

This is why balance is terrible now. Caster tms are so easy to counter. A lvl 3 static grenade, atom smash, and assimilation can counter them easily at lvl 20. They're really only a problem until about lvl 15. No support tms are actually better once you can use assimilate
Epic  Post #: 17
1/27/2014 21:03:47   
dfsfbsdfhbsdfsfd
Member

wish they had bring back passive cores half these problems would be solved
Epic  Post #: 18
1/27/2014 21:05:53   
s0u1ja b0y
Member

Yeh reroute was most balanced skill. More damage you took, more you gained back
Epic  Post #: 19
1/28/2014 3:06:25   
Ranloth
Banned


 I don't see how passives made any difference to stuns, apart from BHs gaining an advantage and having really high chance to block, in synergy with Smoke.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
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