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Cyber Hunter need a buff?

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3/14/2014 0:57:26   
InFlamed Fury
Member

Now I'm just going out on a limb here but even with the last balance update CH is still pretty weak and still gets owned by anything. I have personally gone through ever type of build and can't seem to get any sort of decent Win/Loss ratio with any of the builds i have tried out.
I used 5 focus (best ratio but still just over 50%), Poison (Easy to counter with healing and high damage), Mass/Poison (Way to much energy usage and requirements for me but others don't mind it), Massacre (Once again lots of energy needed for Massacre to be useful), Glass Cannon Build (Any buffs can reduce all damage).

Those are the main builds that i remember using and most others are just not even worth speaking of.

If anyone thinks that CH should get a buff please reply to this Thread.
Also if anyone thinks that I'm just playing incorrectly and thinks that they can give a good build here is my character page:
http://epicduel.artix.com/charpage.asp?id=Inflamed%20Fury

Thank you for your time.

~InFlamed Fury~
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/14/2014 2:13:09   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Cyber Hunter is fine. It just takes some planning to use it.

The only skills that are really whacked up about it are Plasma Grenade and Multi Shot. Plasma Grenade costs too much and does almost no damage, while multi shot has no combos with anything else on the skill tree.

< Message edited by Dual Thrusters -- 3/14/2014 2:15:04 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
3/14/2014 3:14:46   
zzzz....
Member
 

 i completely agree with thread starter that CH builds are very limited and nearly inferior to other classes. ( i'm not saying this about the build using black abyss bot or blood hawk bot).

i'd like to know the CH build which as per you does fine. my friend is CH and we have tried making builds but none with 2 vs 2 win rate over 55%.

so i'm all ears for a good CH lvl 40 build.
Post #: 3
3/14/2014 10:33:23   
Ranloth
Banned


 I'm with Dual Thrusters on this one. CHs as a class are fine, but some skills aren't - already mentioned, such as Plasma Grenade and Multi Shot, but Static Charge could get a buff (defense ignore for EP return only?). Furthermore, Shadow Arts could get a buff (buff by 2% at all levels and EP cost down from +20/level, to +15/level), and Massacre needs its scaling fixed (goes up by 11%, then 15%, then 11% again and down to 9%... yeah...).

This way, variety for CHs could improve due to the weaker skills getting a buff, especially better EP return from Static Charge which would improve the Energy control for CHs.
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
3/14/2014 11:09:47   
zzzz....
Member
 

 well its easier for you guys to say i think.
i'v seen my friend struggle for build when at the same time i myself being a TM happily toyed with different builds.
even i tried to help him but never ever smhow we cd figure out a build.

shadow arts are hardly noticed when used in battle.. only viable build is posion massacre build but that leaves you open in other areas as investment is needed in energy to support high massacre cost.

i seriously would appreciate if you guys can come up with a build. i'm willing to accept your point of view but i need evidence. :)

and TRANS , you agree to the fact that there are problems with so many skills, then how can the class be fine in its current form.

< Message edited by zzzz.... -- 3/14/2014 11:13:30 >
Post #: 5
3/14/2014 11:18:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 You can't expect someone to create a build, without being a CH themselves. I speak from experience on my L30 CH who uses Poison build (no Malf nor anything else on Tier 3 + 4), but the builds differ at L30, compared to L40. We're still suggesting a buff, not disagreeing with the fact they need a buff. <.<

Besides, it's not "easier for us", but experience from fighting them - albeit, very few. Only viable ones are with high HP and a Poison build. Tank builds are ineffective due to lower Strength and Static Charge being very poor with low damage vs. tanks, hence why I'm suggesting a buff for it.
Then there's Multi Shot and Plasma Grenade - again, underused and Plasma Grenade is even weaker than Stun Grenade. Buffing these two skills gives tank builds a bit more power, since they improve with Tech and Dex respectably.
And lowering the cost of Shadow Arts coupled with buff to Static Charge, may make it a bit more viable skill to use. You mention expensive Massacre cost - buff to Static Charge again, especially when Strength improves both.

We don't need acceptance of our own opinions. You have experience with CHs, that's great, which means you can give more detailed feedback and/or correct others, but opinions are opinions, no one has to agree to make them valid (or invalid), because it's an opinion.

quote:

then how can the class be fine in its current form

Because the skill-tree is decent on its own. There's a difference between skill-tree/class and power of skills. TLMs can compete, but their skill synergy is awful. On the other hand, CHs can't really compete - but with one build - but their skill synergy isn't all that bad.

< Message edited by Trans -- 3/14/2014 11:20:34 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
3/14/2014 11:34:04   
zzzz....
Member
 

 the reason i said you guys show me the build was as i thought one of you guys is playing as CH these days.

of course it is difficult to make a build without being that class.

i agree everyone has opinion, that is why i said i'm open to others' opinion as i might have missed out on something.
CH was fine before they made level 40 and legendary ranks.

ya of course the reason we dont see many ch is because of inferior builds.

i'm liking this idea of yours of improving static (only for energy regain) and improving shadow arts & plasma grenade, as plasma grenade and shadow arts are two least used skills amongst CH, because they are not cost effective in present forms.

lets hope devs do something about it.
Post #: 7
3/14/2014 11:43:05   
DarkDevil
Member

speaking from personal experience:

1. class can't survive without str as there is only 2 damaging skils that doesn't use str and there is no snyrgy between them meaning there can't be a build without str.

2. static charge in its current form encourages str abuse as it gives the player a free auto-hit attack every couple of turns , also have no benfit to non-str builds making them have no way to regain energy (cores aren't a point here)

3. shadow arts has a very low effect at least compared to the fact it costs a turn to cast aside from its high energy cost and the high supp requirement.
assuming someone does 700 damage at you and you have 300 armor it will only reduce 110 damage

4. poison blades has no advantage over poison grenade , but poison grade has no requirement while poison blades has two.

5. malfunction needs tons of supp before it becomes effective which is why it is now used as a distraction than real debuff.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 3/14/2014 12:02:44 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 8
3/14/2014 11:51:47   
Ranloth
Banned


 The debuff bit - reminds me of a debuff I've suggested myself, for CHs. You should remember it, DarkDevil. :P

  • [CH] Replace Malfunction with a new debuff, which increases any incoming damage source whilst your opponent is debuffed. Doesn't improve with anything.
    • Works under the same mechanics as Mark of Blood, so your ally (2v2) can also take advantage of it.
    • Damage boost is applied after defenses.
    • Gives the class nice synergy with skills, and allows any build to take advantage of it.
    • Tech (or Dex) requirement to prevent abuse from offensive builds.


    And the defense ignore for EP returned only, somewhat enables non-Str builds to get more out of Static Charge, as well as improving the Energy control for the whole class.

    < Message edited by Trans -- 3/14/2014 12:43:00 >
    • AQ Epic  Post #: 9
    3/14/2014 12:20:26   
    Xendran
    Member

    		@Trans "Tech (or Dex) requirement to prevent abuse from offensive builds."

    You said improves with nothing. If we take this into its full meaning this means that you do not need a requirement, because this skill would be based on the base damage of the weapon used rather than the actual damage you deal. This makes it not scale crazily with offensive builds.
    AQ DF Epic  Post #: 10
    3/14/2014 16:15:55   
    vordalthe2nd
    Member

    		@darkdevil

    Every single problem u listed is completely true. Fixing these issues would benefit other classes as well.. which is a start.
    Post #: 11
    3/14/2014 17:59:26   
    InFlamed Fury
    Member

    		Well Everyone i thank you for your opinions on this matter and I do somewhat agree with Dual Thrusters that there are only two skills that are quite underpowered but Plasma Grenade is good only because of stun. but even still it's not a very likely that it will stun.

    Also Trans I thankyou for your Activity and opinion on this matter and i would have to agree that if Static Charge did receive a buff, most builds would benefit from it and i most definitely would support a buff in it.
    The whole new debuff instead of malf would spice up the game a bit and would make matters more interesting and would help (as you have said) all builds.

    As for suggestions from myself, I don't really have anything but I always enjoy reading other players suggestions because ED does have a good community but there are very little of us left that's all.

    ~InFlamed Fury~
    AQW Epic  Post #: 12
    3/14/2014 18:32:11   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		Static Charge is an unbalanced skill. It is underpowered for tank builds with no strength due to low gains and it is overpowered for strength builds of any sort because of it's guaranteed hit. I agree with dual thruster's first post about plasma grenade and multi-shot being underpowered/ no synergy in skill tree. I raised the idea of static charge giving a fixed amount of energy a long time ago, but I wouldn't know how that would play out. But compared to the mage tree, nist if the effects of a charge is canceled out with an assassinate.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 13
    3/14/2014 20:04:37   
    Mother1
    Member

    		@ edwardvulture

    not just Assimilate but every energy drainer in the game minus energy parasite. Remember Assimilation drain wise is the weakest of them all. Atom Smasher, Static Smash, EMP grenade and Static grenade can all wipe out static charges gain in a heartbeat.

    Epic  Post #: 14
    3/14/2014 20:22:53   
    edwardvulture
    Member

    		using assil. as a comparison because unlike those other energy moves, Static Charge does damage to HP as well.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 15
    3/15/2014 6:38:46   
    Noobatron x3000
    Member

    		You'd have to be extremely careful when buffing ches , They can pull off a pretty strong str hp build with poison and or malf capable of competing with the mighty tech mage copy and paste builds
    Post #: 16
    3/15/2014 11:17:59   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 ch has absolutly no problem while using offensive builds (high strenght);

    but still this class has a big problem which is static charge:
    this skill can be considered op and up at the same time, this because it is unblokable but usless whitout strenght.

    i would suggest to reverse the dmg dealed to blokable, but keeping the energy gained unblokable, making it improove only whit wep dmg whit a very low scale.

    < Message edited by kosmo -- 3/15/2014 11:19:00 >
    Epic  Post #: 17
    3/15/2014 11:31:48   
    zzzz....
    Member
     

    		 nerf static charge -- no way.. that wil make this class a punching bag.
    Post #: 18
    3/15/2014 11:55:34   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 .....
    read better

    quote:

    making it improove only whit wep dmg whit a very low scale.


    right now SC scales whit the dmg dealed, which is quite unfair when u hit a low ammount, whit my suggestion the energy gained would alwaise be the same and unblokable.

    < Message edited by kosmo -- 3/15/2014 11:58:31 >
    Epic  Post #: 19
    3/15/2014 12:04:23   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 I have a suggestion, to fix the damage issue and Energy. It's a nerf-buff. Gonna make it look fancy as well. xD


    Static Charge


    Description: Deal base damage and ignore 50% of enemy's defenses for the Energy return only

    Skill Details:
    Level 1: 40% Damage to Energy
    Level 2: 44% Damage to Energy
    Level 3: 48% Damage to Energy
    Level 4: 52% Damage to Energy
    Level 5: 56% Damage to Energy
    Level 6: 59% Damage to Energy
    Level 7: 62% Damage to Energy
    Level 8: 65% Damage to Energy
    Level 9: 68% Damage to Energy
    Level 10: 70% Damage to Energy

    Cool Down: 3 Turns

    Stat: 16 Technology (+2 per skill level increase)
    Level 1: 16 Technology
    Level 2: 18 Technology
    Level 3: 20 Technology
    Level 4: 22 Technology
    Level 5: 24 Technology
    Level 6: 26 Technology
    Level 7: 28 Technology
    Level 8: 30 Technology
    Level 9: 32 Technology
    Level 10: 34 Technology

    Notes:
  • Static Charge cannot be blocked.
  • Static Charge cannot deal a critical strike and it is not affected by rage.
  • Deals total base Primary damage (i.e. 520-560 range, you will always hit 520 minus the defenses).
  • Example of how the Energy return works:
    • If your opponent has 300 Def/Res, you ignore half of it (150). It does NOT increase the initial damage.
    • Assuming the above, if you deal 200 Damage on 300 Def/Res, you add the Def/Res ignored to the "damage" and then multiply by SC's percentage.
    • With L10 SC: 200 + 150 = 350 * 0.7 = 245 EP returned (and 200 Damage dealt).


    How's this?
    • AQ Epic  Post #: 20
    3/15/2014 12:21:28   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 i like the suggestion.

    im just worried about the scale remaining as it is now (+100 wep dmg = +100 energy)
    Epic  Post #: 21
    3/15/2014 12:25:03   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Well, it ain't exactly DMG = EP, since there's the conversion based on SC's percentages. It's a nerf in terms of damage - thus affecting the EP return too - but the defense ignore for the EP return only makes up for it + more, thus making it more appealing for non-Str oriented builds as well, and not being pathetically weak against tanks (EP-return wise).
    AQ Epic  Post #: 22
    3/15/2014 12:27:27   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 ur right, i have misscalculated the energy gained, which is +70 energy per +100 dmg, more or less like now

    < Message edited by kosmo -- 3/15/2014 12:28:23 >
    Epic  Post #: 23
    3/15/2014 12:36:08   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    		 Yeah. Basically, it's (almost) the same as it is now but: =((DMG * SC's %) + (defense*/2)) equals the EP return.

    Pretty simple, and buffs the skill appropriatelly - where it needs to be buffed.

    * where defense is picked at the time when you use the skill, from the possible range
    AQ Epic  Post #: 24
    3/15/2014 12:49:25   
    kosmo
    Member
     

    		 it would surely help lower strenght builds more than what is doing now, but im still a bit worried abut the scaling remaining the same.
    Epic  Post #: 25
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