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=ED= Blood Mage Balance Thread

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8/6/2018 19:18:50   
  Battle Elf
has ten 1v1 wins


 Blood Mage Balance Discussion Thread

This is where you can discuss everything balance related to the Blood Mage class.
Got a skill that doesn't fit? Perhaps a combo that proves to be too strong and abusable. Discuss it here with everyone!

A few guidelines before we start:
  • All AE Forum rules are still in effect.
  • No comparisons between other classes. You can use certain facts to build your case on, but please do not turn this into a 'CH vs X' thread.
  • Everyone's opinions are just that. Opinions. If you don't agree, that's fine. But, there is no need for rule breaking behaviour.
  • Constructive Criticism is meant to improve something, not rant, whine and complain to be heard. If you are going to criticise, do so with the intent to give help, not tear down.



    < Message edited by Battle Elf -- 8/6/2018 23:44:14 >
    • AQW Epic  Post #: 1
    8/6/2018 19:30:33   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Strength blood mage is doing pretty well, but focus isn't that great.

    The plasma cannon should be rebuffed (but not merc because that class is fine) to help bring back focus blood mage. Also an intimidate buff so that BM isn't as weak against str builds such as BH smoke/hawk/azrael aux, because that's tough to deal with.

    Parasite is still weak, would recommend buffing to 20% drain instead of 15% to compensate.

    Would also like a MOB scaling to help with tech so that focus can be better as well and not make str too strong.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/6/2018 19:31:32 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 2
    8/7/2018 14:18:02   
    NDB
    Member

    		While I agree that Parasite is still pretty funky in a lot of situations, it is now already extremely effective against high energy builds like caster Tech Mage and Support, many of which have traditionally been "focus killers", and buffing it would have the unwanted side effect of buffing Strength since it deals 100% damage. If it were to be buffed to 20%, I think the damage should be taken back down to 85%. But... I don't know, actually. Parasite is just such a hard skill to fix because its effect is so situation-dependent such that there is a lot of potential for it to become too powerful or too weak.

    I do think Intimidate on Blood Mage needs to be buffed, especially seeing as Smoke and Malfunction have been buffed, but not insanely since it already got the duration buff to 4 turns. But maybe it would be interesting to have the Blood Mage Intimidate be significantly more powerful than the Mercenary version but have it last 3 turns. This would be a push in the right direction for removing overlapping skills between classes.

    I think that if the Plasma Cannon damage were to be re-buffed, it might make sense to lower the Critical chance, perhaps to 15 or 10%, or eliminate it altogether seeing as it already ignores defense. Because while the class does obviously needs a slight buff, Plasma Cannon really isn't underpowered right now by any means. I guess I just don't like the idea of something that would already be doing very high damage to also have a higher than normal chance to Crit. Also, buffing it too much may make it too easy to use it without a lot of Tech, which could get out of hand. I mean, even with a Jugg Dex build right now with 80 total Tech, my max Plasma Cannon is 660 damage. With the 12% ignore, it would be about 700+ raw damage on the average Focus build, which is not weak in my book. Buff it up too much and it would become almost as strong as Plasma Rain, which is only 803 with 165 Dex, which I feel would be weird. In any case, Plasma Cannon as it is right now is already the strongest caster skill in the game relative, discluding the ultimates which cost way more energy anyway. Anyway, I'm not against buffing the damage, just trying to think cautiously.

    < Message edited by NDB -- 8/7/2018 19:15:21 >
    Epic  Post #: 3
    8/8/2018 22:17:40   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Would like to see the cannon have the same scaling as bunker... and end higher because with the class as a whole, the cannon doesn't make up for it's focus weakness

    I'm pretty sure bunker and cannon are about the same in damage to be honest with you, but bunker is useful at lower levels and cannon isn't since bunker starts at a higher base, but blood mage also doesn't other places to put useful skills. I'd love to see overload/plasma rain/supercharge replaced with something that can benefit a blood mage because with parasite, none of these skills cut it.

    Apparently fireball is a bit too much out of hand right now, so possibly a slight nerf would do... maybe taking off the 2 turn defense ignore would help it be more normal.

    I do like how fireball is now useful after like 5 years though

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/8/2018 22:19:27 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 4
    8/14/2018 21:01:54   
    Emperor_Blitz
    Member

    		I can't be the only one who thinks fireball is broken, costs 280 mana at max rank lowers defense and resistance by -50 something for 2 turns and it isn't affected at all when they are fished... I think it needs a nerf thoughts?

    Merged with Blood Mage thread. ~WhiteTiger

    < Message edited by WhiteTiger -- 8/14/2018 21:02:57 >
    Epic  Post #: 5
    8/14/2018 21:13:05   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Ofc it's broken.

    The def ignore/damage makes it OP.

    The not affected by karth is fine, but the damage and def ignore isnt
    AQW Epic  Post #: 6
    8/15/2018 1:12:02   
    nowras
    Member

    		Fireball is fine. I don't remember losing to it no matter which build I used. Yeah, this includes my 750 HP focus BM build with super low defense. It just takes a little trick to it. You just need to OTK them before they do. I simply used to fish on the first turn (I have more support (45+29+2)) and plasma and then force and then aux rage.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 7
    8/15/2018 9:45:08   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Just wait til you go second because of underdog.

    That’s the only issue I have of losing to fireball.

    But beating it doesn’t mean that it isn’t broken. Just going to throw that out there.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/15/2018 9:48:25 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 8
    8/15/2018 11:30:20   
    RaXZerGamingZ
    Member

    		i have gone second myself against str bm and i have no problem against fireball, maybe an increase in energy cost but other than that i think its fine
    Post #: 9
    8/15/2018 11:43:55   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Go any focus build and go 2nd against a str BM without having Kartherax or any luck factors...

    Or just look at everyone who is BM and see their build. There's an obvious trend.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/15/2018 11:55:01 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 10
    8/15/2018 17:07:13   
    RaXZerGamingZ
    Member

    		well without kartherax and a bit of luck you lose to most str builds since they hit 250+ damage every turn

    it also doesnt have much to do with Fireball
    Post #: 11
    8/15/2018 17:26:28   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Yeah it does. It’s a different damage than your primary, and it does a significant more damage than your primary and ignores def/res for the next 2 turns with a 2 turn cooldown.

    Strength basically got nerfed to where it was before it was buffed by NW the first time, so the reason for its success is mainly
    Fireball with a tad bit on parasite.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/15/2018 17:28:52 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 12
    8/15/2018 17:48:41   
    RaXZerGamingZ
    Member

    		the debuff isnt that strong, the damage isnt significantly higher considering the skill has to be maxed for it to be effective, you are right on the cooldown though, it should be 3 turns
    Post #: 13
    8/15/2018 18:03:19   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		The fact that BM str only happened because of fireball is so funny. No other str build works but BM. And it’s because of fireball.

    The def ignore needs to go to be completely honest with you.




    Okay let me expand by saying more than fireball is OP.

    Other strength builds for other classes aren’t really good, tech mage isn’t even good.

    The only good class for strength right now is blood mage and fireball definitely helps. The damage is a good factor, unblockable, unaffected by karth, 2 cooldown.

    To make other str builds good, I believe a fireball nerf is necessary since the previous perks and a primary buff in general to make other classes viable for strength, because BM is the only str class that works, and that’s just terrible.

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 8/15/2018 18:21:15 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 14
    8/15/2018 18:23:36   
    Mother1
    Member

    		If I remember correctly back in Delta it was fireball itself that made strength Blood mage so potent back during the second non recycled war. In fact when the staff changed the scaling of fireball to work with every 4 strength instead of 3 that pretty much destroyed strength BM and people started going after other builds due to this.
    Epic  Post #: 15
    8/15/2018 18:37:15   
    RaXZerGamingZ
    Member

    		yes fireball is good but BM wouldnt be able to beat any other str class without mark of blood, high damage high lifesteal.

    Fireball being the reason that Str BM is possible makes sense since the class has bad energy regain and no unblockable skills.

    to make other strenghts good i suggest to buff them rather than nerf fireball to be bad again, like buffing double strike
    Post #: 16
    8/15/2018 18:50:46   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Would be better to nerf fireball a bit and buff strength in general as a whole.

    Blood mage still has this thing called intimidate, so I think your thing about BM not being able to beat strength is flawed.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 17
    8/15/2018 19:11:29   
    RaXZerGamingZ
    Member

    		yes but the other classes have multiple higher damage skills and good energy drain, and in tac merc case it has poison
    Post #: 18
    8/15/2018 19:15:09   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Blood Mage has MOB, an energy draining move that does 100% damage, fireball, bludgeon, and intimidate.

    I think it's fine.

    With 90+35 str, a max fireball does 200 more damage than a minimum primary. :)
    AQW Epic  Post #: 19
    8/16/2018 9:21:19   
    RaXZerGamingZ
    Member

    		i was talking about if BM fireball was bad and had no lifesteal like you were mentioning
    Post #: 20
    8/16/2018 13:16:31   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		The extra cooldown on cannon literally nerfed the cannon instead of buffing it. Really unfortunate.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 21
    9/15/2018 16:01:36   
    grizzly11
    Member

    		nowadays every class has been quite strong, except blood mage.cyber hunter, who has a high strength and supp and massacre build, blood mage cant resist, cause azraels anihilator, blood hawk. kartherax robot poison is reduced to 2 turn and blood mages are stay only hope of lucky.they cant use anything against of azrael's anihilator, blood hawk.if azraels weapon or blood hawk or both of them belongs to bounty hunters, they are also undefeated. blood mages have only parasit which is good for high energy, but if energy is low parasite use wont be benefit for blood mage.also with high strength build, blood mage havnt anything to resist of him. i think there are many other things which should be discussed. i think it will be good if you return or replace old skill 'deadly aim', which is main thing for blood mage

    < Message edited by grizzly11 -- 9/15/2018 16:30:10 >
    Post #: 22
    9/23/2018 9:10:47   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Blood Mage is really garbage. Debuffs are so strong and Blood Mage literally can't do anything about it, shield sure, go on offense? Eh, not really. The attacks it has aren't strong enough for anything. For focus it has Plasma Cannon and MOB, and that's not really good at all. The cannon is strong but not strong enough.

    Bludgeon still needs its buff, but I doubt that'll revive BM. Maybe buff fireball a tad, I don't know, but Blood Mage is so dead.

    It needs other useful skills.

    After supercharge became useful for sheer tech builds who can regenerate energy, blood mage lost that build (because supercharge sucks for focus builds).

    The offensive class doesn't have any way of being offensive. Plasma cannon, that's about it, and a crappy energy drain which should really have a 3 turn cooldown. But it's just frustrating.

    Smoke and Malf do need a nerf for sure to help with BM, because blood mage shields can be taken away by the Azrael aux. (Sure so can a BH but at least it has smoke)



    2nd post
    Energy regeneration isn’t good enough and skills like overload, plasma rain, are hardly ever used.

    Should maybe buff fireball again since y’all nerfed the parasite damage back down to 85%.

    Bludgeon still in need of a buff (looking at skills like double strike, it’s a laugh) in terms of energy for damage.

    Cannon probably needs a bit of a buff, plasma rain needs a change...

    Funny how blood mage doesn’t even seem like a blood mage because str builds don’t even work for it right now... and focus builds don’t even either.

    Blood mage is especially weak to BH because of how smoke beats their shields. I’m a BH and I haven’t lost to a BM recently because of how strong smoke screen is, they have to shield it because I have mark of blood.

    They need a MOB buff or something to help get their HP back up, and a parasite buff in % drain or cooldown back to 3% because this isn’t cutting it.

    Most popular classes right now are CH, Bh, merc

    There’s a problem with the mages (and Tlm but that’s an issue which comes from things like supp ch)

    < Message edited by .Lord Ginger. -- 10/11/2018 8:26:03 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 23
    4/10/2019 11:59:09   
    .Lord Ginger.
    Member

    		Deadly Aim needs a buff since it's pretty weak, especially compared to the armor skills that classes have and then the fact that a BH smoke kills sidearms.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 24
    4/24/2019 0:32:56   
    Foulman
    Member

    		Can we talk about how broken f5 BM is right now? Plasma Cannon, like Bunker Buster still does 300 dmg after a 33 tech malf against Plasma armour and 90+35+18 tech. Then there's Deadly Aim with Bloodlust and Blood Bullet, which deals more damage than a robot. And of course, there's the robot itself, giving BM a super effective triple nuke with lifesteal. You will always take at least 2 nukes, and if you're not packing every energy core in the game you're probably going to cop the plasma cannon as well.

    There's a whole lot of reasons why half the playerbase uses the same build.
    AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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