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RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion

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2/11/2009 3:04:49   
  Captain Rhubarb
Deuteranope


 A few things that are definite regarding the "kingdoms" project:

- It is not going to be a larger house.
- Owners of any size house can participate in some way
- Owners of estates will have more options
- Real PVP type stuff is not likely to happen for AQ "kingdoms"
- Some sort of cross-game (AQ/DF/MQ/AQW) PVP thing is coming eventually... Hard to say right now exactly what that will end up as.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 26
2/27/2009 5:47:18   
Hagen
Member

Well, now when the war counters on the character pages are on, there returns the issue of "sending house guards to wars" mentioned by our Captain some time ago. I think that - taking into account that there is nothing better to discuss about the estates now - we can debate on that subject. What do we expect from the feature of sending house guards to wars.

Let me start it then.

  • First of all we want it to be balanced. For sure. What does it mean? It should have a significant influence on our war counters, but it should leave the "no-guards" players a possibility to compete. In order to have some data for a comparison let us consider two players. The first one is level 90 and he has all the "gold" guards. The total guard level (TGL) for him is 8+25+38+39+35+65=210. The second one would be a hardcore level 130 player with TGL=2500. They both could be treated as boundaries of weak and strong guard armies (weak and strong with respect to their appropriate levels of course!)

  • What number of wins such armies should achieve for their owners for a single "run" of sending them to a war. I think that a simple and elegant solution could be TGL/player_level rounded up. So for the first army we get [210/90]=3, and for the second one we obtain [2500/130]=20.

  • Next, how to send guards to wars? A solution I can think about is adding this as a feature of the guard tower. Just as the trade hut has an active ability that can be used, the guard tower can also have one. Pressing the appropriate button could send the guards to war. Of course this would limit the feature to the estate owners... but why not?

  • Another matter - the cost. There should be a resource cost. Not to big, because high costs may well make big army less effective than a big one. But not too small - to encourage players to develop their resource producing buildings. As an army needs to eat the cost could be in food. Let us say TGL/3. For the small army it would be [210/3]=70 for a large one [2500/3]=834.

  • Let's follow - the time. How long should be the interval between possible attacks of the guards? I think it should depend on the level of the guard tower the player has (hey, another encouragement!). To start with something: how about the delay time of (20 - guard_tower_level) hours? (That is 19 hours for level1 GT and 5 hours for level15 GT).

  • And last but not least the rewards. Since the guards fight, and not the player character himself there should be no XP reward at all. Increasing of the war counter is enough here. But the guards can bring some gold they won to their master, yet not too much! For example TGL*2, counting towards the daily gold cap. No token rewards of course.


    Well, that's all from my point of view.
    I think it is a good starting point for a discussion what do we expect from that feature. Please express your thoughts. Let us feed Captain Rhubarb with our thoughts!

    I removed the mini swords pics as those are considered smilies. ~skydrite

    < Message edited by skydrite -- 2/28/2009 1:30:41 >

    _____________________________

    		•
    AQ MQ  Post #: 27
    2/27/2009 17:20:33   
    gopats
    Member

    		Another factor that could contribute to how guards do in wars is the amount of monsters that the player kills himself or herself. Maybe the guards morale is boosted when you lead them into battle.

    Also I think it will be OK if the guards give a little bit of experience since leveling takes a while at the upper levels, but I will still be very happy if they bring only gold since every little bit helps.

    I just thought of this, but how about the idea of being able to send guards to fight some monsters when there is not a war? This should also be limited by the cost of resources so that people don't just use their guards to fight.

    < Message edited by gopats -- 2/27/2009 17:41:21 >
    AQ  Post #: 28
    2/27/2009 17:48:14   
      Captain Rhubarb
    Deuteranope
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Hagen
    Well, now when the war counters on the character pages are on, there returns the issue of "sending house guards to wars" mentioned by our Captain some time ago. I think that - taking into account that there is nothing better to discuss about the estates now - we can debate on that subject. What do we expect from the feature of sending house guards to wars....


    Hagen, you're suggestions are definitely all in the right direction! (Are you inside my mind?)

    Here's some of my plans:
    * There will be an interface from the Guard Tower to send guards to wars
    * We'll be tracking normal wins and guard wins separately, so that makes it more fair for players that don't have an estate.
    * Your idea of using the player level as a divider in the 'win' amount is a neat idea. I'll have to think about that.
    * Guard 'wins' will get the player some XP, since XP is sort of "prestige" value and not just direct battle experience.
    * The limit for how often guards can be sent will just be based on available Estate resources.
    * Sending guards to war will require Food, and possible small amounts of Wood/Stone for equipment. (using Energy is planned for sending something else for Wars)



    quote:

    ORIGINAL: gopats
    Another factor that could contribute to how guards do in wars is the amount of monsters that the player kills himself or herself. Maybe the guards morale is boosted when you lead them into battle.
    Also I think it will be OK if the guards give a little bit of experience since leveling takes a while at the upper levels, but I will still be very happy if they bring only gold since every little bit helps.
    I just thought of this, but how about the idea of being able to send guards to fight some monsters when there is not a war? This should also be limited by the cost of resources so that people don't just use their guards to fight.


    Those are really good ideas too, especially the Morale concept.

    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 29
    2/27/2009 18:28:41   
    Bratac
    Member

    		I really like those two ideas, anything more complex that will be brought to houses will be highly appreciated by people who own them.
    I would like to take opportunity to ask something once again. Is there any chance in the future for guard tower rise the power or level of monsters against other player visiting your house. At current point I think there is way to easy to enter other players house and if not are there any plans for better guards?
    AQ  Post #: 30
    3/6/2009 12:06:33   
      Captain Rhubarb
    Deuteranope


    		 NEW UPDATE (March 6, 2009)

    For calculating how effective Guards are at protecting your house estate buildings from random invaders,
    higher level guards are now proportionately more effective.

    As a quick comparison, each guard level is worth a certain amount of virtual 'guard' points.
    Level 10 = 6
    Level 25 = 25
    Level 45 = 60
    Level 75 = 130
    Level 100 = 200


    For the players that have *tons* of guards, you'll find that if you lots of Level 60+ guards, that you no longer need to keep all your Level 25 guards.
    Your estate is very safe now.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 31
    3/6/2009 12:18:20   
    Hagen
    Member

    quote:

    For the players that have *tons* of guards, you'll find that if you lots of Level 60+ guards, that you no longer need to keep all your Level 25 guards.


    But they are sooooo cuuuuute!


    Edit:

    The guard power equation is then probably

    Power = 0,0108*level^2 + 0,9853*level - 5.5791


    < Message edited by Hagen -- 3/6/2009 12:32:46 >

    _____________________________
    AQ MQ  Post #: 32
    3/6/2009 12:50:47   
      Captain Rhubarb
    Deuteranope


    		 heh.. I like your formula Hagen!

    The real formula is just:

    (Level^1.5) / 5.0 (rounded off)

    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 33
    3/6/2009 13:25:43   
    Ryashi
    Member

    		@Captain Rhubarb

    An idea stemming from the recent event (and people selling their houses to try out the portals). Would it be possible to impliment a way to obtain the added interest value from estates without lowering the level of the buildings on them (with reduced returns compared to selling the estate normally, of course)?
    If someone has the buildings I have now (for example) and decided to sell the estate to obtain some extra tokens then that'll put them back over 1 million gold to upgrade them again. Unless you literally have nothing else to spend it on, that kind of gold is a big deal.

    If it's easy enough to do and still a viable business decision then I think it would be a good addition to the housing system :3
    Post #: 34
    3/6/2009 16:45:49   
      Captain Rhubarb
    Deuteranope


    		 yet another major update today:

    New Lower Prices on large estates:
    Forest Mansion Estate (15000 tokens)
    Darkovia Mansion Estate (16000 tokens)

    Players that already owned these houses will not lose the current value of their homes.
    (wouldn't that be nice in the real world? )
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 35
    3/6/2009 16:55:15   
    etching
    The Spongy One


    		 >New Lower Prices on large estates:
    Forest Mansion Estate (15000 tokens)
    Darkovia Mansion Estate (16000 tokens)

    That's great...But presumably the weekly interest gain takes a hit though...

    FME --- 450 instead of 540 tokens/week
    DME --- 480 instead of 600 tokens/week
    AQ  Post #: 36
    3/6/2009 17:00:43   
    Dil
    Member
     

    		 lol i was thinking of this then what ethching said came to me and i never wanted it to happan, but now that it has o well just means i can't sell my DME until the insterest is very high and i really need the z or a new house is out a 20,000+ at that.

    _____________________________

    AQW
    My YouTube!
    AQ  Post #: 37
    3/6/2009 17:10:44   
      Captain Rhubarb
    Deuteranope


    		 The weekly +3% house value is based on the price you originally bought your house for.




    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Dil
    ... o well just means i can't sell my DME until the interest is very high and i really need the z or a new house is out a 20,000+ at that.


    I doubt we'll ever have any higher priced homes.
    Unless we totally get rid of the % value increase, which could happen eventually, but not any time soon.


    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 38
    3/6/2009 17:18:33   
    Everardmanse
    Member
     

    		 I assume that upgrading the megaportal either makes it more resource efficient in terms of how mcuh food and energy to send an army, or makes your army bring back more exp and gold for you when you do send it?
    Post #: 39
    3/6/2009 17:24:51   
      Captain Rhubarb
    Deuteranope


    		 Oh yeah, I also increased by 1 extra storage slot for the Tiki with Beach Estate and Frostvale Cottage Estate houses.
    It was only 3 extras, and now it's 4 extra




    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Everardmanse
    I assume that upgrading the megaportal either makes it more resource efficient in terms of how mcuh food and energy to send an army, or makes your army bring back more exp and gold for you when you do send it?


    We haven't decided on the final exact numbers yet, but the higher level mega portal will also be more "accurate" in how it send armies and guards.
    More accuracy means better reward outcomes, and less chances of anything "really bad" from happening when messing with worm hole generators.


    < Message edited by Captain Rhubarb -- 3/6/2009 17:27:21 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 40
    3/6/2009 17:27:01   
    Calimehtar
    Ribarg? Zard contest runner-up


    		 Captain Rhubarb
    >I doubt we'll ever have any higher priced homes.
    Unless we totally get rid of the % value increase, which could happen eventually, but not any time soon.


    Does that mean, that we never will have the opportunity to buy a Kingdom or a Castle?



    EDIT: If you bought a mega portal, then you now have your own doorway to making a 'kingdom' on another planet.
    More details to come... ~Rhubarb
    AQ AQW  Post #: 41
    3/6/2009 19:32:48   
    nick00bot
    Member

    		I love these new updates, I cant wait for kingdoms. but something that im noticing now that is getting really severe with all these new buildings is how much you pay for selling and rebuying your house. before it was ok, but now that with these expensive buildings if you have a level 10 museum, storage building, and you move you would have to pay a total of:

    56,000 + 72,000 + 24,000 + 30,000 + 19,200 + 24000 = 225,200 gold to get your levels back, and estate items aren't worth nearly that much gold right now


    what i suggest doing is removing the gold cost for re-upgrading when you move but still have the resource and time cost there.
    AQ DF  Post #: 42
    3/11/2009 2:59:49   
    King Richard
    Member

    		Thanks etching for quoting my first post elsewhere in this thread before editing it to include all the new estate/portal info.

    I was interested in seeing how AE would deal with the escalating house z-token interest rates, and now it seems we finally have a bigger picture.

    First they slashed the z-token interest from houses by 40% (from 5% to 3% weekly).

    Second, they effectively removed the top two highest-price houses by removing all houses in the 11k-18k range, and then shifting the FME and DME down to fill the gap. This change was done so slowly (and unannounced) that relatively few seem to have commented on it.

    The change in DME cost from 20k to 16k alone will cost DME owners 6250 z-tokens a year in lost interest into perpetuity (assuming they sell and rebuy the DME).

    Moreover (as fredrick pointed out) owners of the original 20k DMEs who wisely refuse to sell and accept this huge 20% long-term interest loss will never be able to capitalize on the huge value of their houses.

    This leaves the 20k DME owners on the horns of a dilemma. I'd be interested in hearing from 20k DME owners whether they intend to sell or keep their 20k DMEs. I, like etching, do not intend to sell my 20k DME.

    Not only was the change in FME and DME prices unannounced, it coincided perfectly with the release of expensive z-token portals into new worlds, tempting people to prematurely sell their (unbeknownst to them in many cases) RARE 20k DMEs for the immediate gratification of getting a head-start on portals, exploring new worlds, etc. Pretty darn sneaky, AE.

    Of course, as etching so astutely alluded to without actually stating directly, this was all part of AE's plan to reduce the inflated z-token interest from houses so people will buy more z-tokens. As SIGMUND also expressed, I wish AE had been more transparent about the change to FME and DME prices by changing the name of the higher-priced DME/FME to something like...

    DME/FME CLASSIC

    and announcing they were going to go rare, similar to what they did with Darksplatter Classic. But then a lot more folks probably would have realized their value and have held on to them, costing AE $ in z-token revenue in the long run.

    I'm just glad my secondary, who got hosed by the sudden and mysterious 11k-18k gap in housing, barely managed to get to 18k tokens and get the RARE FME CLASSIC before the FME/DME price decrease.

    _____________________________

    My DME made the list of top DMEs
    1st AQ char to max estate resource production
    AQ  Post #: 43
    3/11/2009 5:01:42   
    etching
    The Spongy One


    		 >Second, they effectively removed the top two highest-price houses by removing all houses in the 11k-18k range, and then shifting the FME and DME down to fill the gap. This change was done so slowly (and unannounced) that relatively few seem to have commented on it.

    The FME/DME price change was announced by The Captain in this thread.
    Whether he did it right after the change were made, I don't know, but anyway the change was announced here...
    I would have preferred instead that another estate be put in the price gap, but that didn't happen...



    < Message edited by etching -- 5/15/2009 6:24:58 >
    AQ  Post #: 44
    3/11/2009 6:17:21   
    SIGMUND
    Member

    quote:

    etching~
    The FME/DME price change was announced by The Captain in this thread.
    Whether he did it right after the change were made, I don't know, but anyway the change was announced here...
    I would have preferred instead that another estate be put in the price gap, but that didn't happen...


    The problem is not the change. The problem is the way the change was done. The change was announced either after the effect was introduced or simultaneously. Very few people would have read about it before being "caught out".
    I would also have preferred a new Estate in the price gap "Beach Mansion Estate" or "Frostvale Mansion Estate" could have been used.
    Or the DME could have been renamed as "Classic" DME and the new ones called DME.

    Negative effects should be announced CLEARLY in the game at least 48 hours before they are implemented, not tucked into the Forum which only 10-20% of players read.

    The Captain is awesome for his upgrades, but not awesome about announcing any negative effects.
    AQ  Post #: 45
    3/11/2009 14:42:42   
      Captain Rhubarb
    Deuteranope


    		 I want to remind everyone that the original intent of having the z-token house value increase over time was to help players afford the more expensive houses.

    It was NOT designed to be a way to get "FREE" tokens to buy other things like weapons and equipment.

    When a player owns one of the largest size houses, the sell-back amount should no longer matter, since there's nothing to upgrade to.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 46
    3/11/2009 14:45:16   
    Fisto
    Member

    		@Captain~
    Could you enlighten us by answering a question that some of us have?

    Will our paintings eventually take us back in time to old wars and events? Honestly, I see no real purpose of owning a painting that can take us somewhere when we can access it via the Travel Map.

    < Message edited by Ultimate Supremacy -- 3/11/2009 14:48:14 >
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 47
    3/11/2009 17:34:54   
      Captain Rhubarb
    Deuteranope
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Ultimate Supremacy
    Will our paintings eventually take us back in time to old wars and events?


    I think so. It's sort of up to the quest makers to redo the old events into standalone quests, and then make a painting point to them.

    We could also remove some of the normal ways to get to things, and start requiring the use of a painting.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 48
    3/11/2009 18:39:11   
    Everardmanse
    Member
     
    quote:

    We could also remove some of the normal ways to get to things, and start requiring the use of a painting.


    Please don't... we already have to pay for gaurdianship to get access to a lot of quests and events. Why should we have to pay AGAIN to get to those quests and events?
    Post #: 49
    3/11/2009 18:48:00   
    ants
    Member

    		im thinking instance access to the area without having to go through the quest/ or wait... a good example is the temple of hope..... rather wait for the scene to finish and then search through the lists from the map, paintings will now enable u to by pass that nonscenes *similar to a cut scene~ infact its almost exact~ WOW*

    besides the good thing is... most of the paintings will hopefully likely be buyable in gold if the location is available to both guardian and free players... A WIN WIN FROM ALL SIDES :)
    AQ AQW  Post #: 50
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