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Class is in session! Discussion on Dialogue

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1/23/2012 0:53:26   
Eukara Vox
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 Dialogue

So, "lecture" one is up.

So, what are your hang ups, difficulties, concerns, triumphs, etc when it comes to dialogue?

If anything struck a nerve, either in my ramblings, or on the sites I noted, what was it. Why did it strike a nerve?

What was useful?

What didn't you know?

What do you need clarification on?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
1/23/2012 10:42:00   
Xirminator
Member

I think my biggest problem in dialogue is tendency to retain some sentence structures from my native language. It can be pretty annoying when I'm editing, because I never notice it the first time I writing something.

I skimmed through the links. Pretty interesting. I'll have a closer look later on.
AQ DF  Post #: 2
1/24/2012 1:01:27   
Hadal Serpent
Member

Eukara, you don't know how thankful I am for your writing lessons you're giving us!

What I struggle in most is in my narrative skills. For instance, I overuse quotes such as "Bob told Samantha," or "Shouted Samantha," pretty often. I also have plenty of trouble in my punctuation, and furthermore in breaking my paragraphs whenever I have one of my characters using a quote.

Your lesson is pretty useful. Thanks again! I'll finish reading the rest of it later.
DF  Post #: 3
1/24/2012 2:02:57   
Helixi
Member

This is definitely something I'll be looking at; I have a tendency to make my dialogue quite stilted and unrealistic at times. This is a godsend.

< Message edited by Helixi -- 1/24/2012 2:04:30 >
AQ DF  Post #: 4
1/24/2012 2:10:28   
Glais
Member

Skimmed it, but I've found it very interesting, couldn't have come at a better time either as I've just begun writing.
The dialogue bits were very helpful in particular. Hoping that when I finish, it'll help me with keeping personalities distinct, unless that's...acquired.
DF MQ  Post #: 5
1/24/2012 3:53:41   
demolitiondragon
Constructively Friendly!


 There were points that I was going to add, but then they were covered in the links, so...

The personality distinction was new for me.

I tend to rely on too much talking to relay information. Must break that habit.
Post #: 6
1/24/2012 13:50:13   
Eukara Vox
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 Well, later tonight, I am going to post... "an assignment". Pretty much, it will be a picture you will (optional) write a short story to go with, emphasing your dialogue writing. I kinda set your stage and you go with it. Then, we all will look at our writing and see what we liked, what we want to work on and what others think.

This way, you will have directly applicable feedback on this aspect of writing.


I have to tell you that when I first started seriously writing, I was very guilty of the full page "he said, she said" bit. In my head, I thought the dialogue just needed to be done and that was it. But mostly that is because I had never truly sat down and watched a conversation. The first time I did... I was embarrassed. I left out everything that made the conversation, if not important, extremely interesting. Smiles, gestures, footwork, how the world around the talkers messed with the conversation.

It took a long time for me to adjust though. And then, I went OVERBOARD. I put too much in the conversation. Two people whose conversation should have taken 20 minutes, now was taking 2 hours because I was putting too much into it. It was frustrating. I think I have found a decent, if not acceptable balance. I still find myself wanting to put too much into the conversation, but in my opinion, that is better than leaving it, essentially "naked".

A challenge, if you will. This is actually a homework assignment for my students on Friday. Watch a conversation (they have to watch 3, varied). Don't be so obvious that you are inhibiting the conversation (creepy stalker mode), but watch it. Take notes on how the people move in reaction to each other and their environment. Jot down phrases and words they use that make the conversation engaging. How did emotion enter into the conversation and how was it expressed?

Then sit down and look at it and really think about the realism of your own dialogue when you write and see if you are doing anything like this. Do you have your characters realistically interacting? Are they using "realistic phrasing and words" or are your characters perfectly dictating the native language?

Anyway, I figure such an exercise would be useful.

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
1/24/2012 15:40:07   
Mritha
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 I'd say the character speech is the biggest of my writing difficulties. For the longest time, the thought of a character with an accent, while makes perfect sense, never once crossed my mind. I have tried to fix this problem by taking ideas from people I know or characters I see elsewhere. For example, in a story I am working on currently, one of the necromancers has an Irish accent. The idea came from a character in a book I am reading and the accent suits the character I am writing very well. It adds so much depth to her in comparison to what she would be without it.

I've also been listening to conversations like you mentioned before. My Biology professor last semester, could not say the "x" sound. Try as she might, she just couldn't do it. When she told us "No texting in class," it came out as "No testing in class." Rather amusing circumstances, as well as inspiring.

I still forget often to make the speech more.... real. I have gotten to the point where I made a list in Word of all the characters I am using, as well as important details such as their manor of talking. That list has saved me from having to either remember what they sounded like, or having to wade through a story to find their dialog.

Another problem I have is trying to match a speech to a character. Sometimes it is so obvious to me that this is what they would sound like. Others, I have spent literally weeks trying to come up with a good dialog, but nothing I could think of really fit that character. It sounds like it should be so easy, but for me it often isn't. I'm really looking forward to this lesson, hopefully I can find the time to participate in all the lessons you will be doing!
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 8
1/24/2012 15:57:45   
Eukara Vox
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 Unfortunately fore most grammar sticklers out there, my dialogue is frequently written how I speak. I know it has driven a few old L&L notables crazy. I can only shrug. We do not speak in perfect syntax, why should our characters. The sad thing... if you read the dialogue examples of Impera in my "lecture", I do tend to talk like that when I am talking science or something very academic. But, if you look at my Dionysus' Challenge novel, I have so many characters in there, so many personalities, that I am fortunate that I teach mythology classes, or else I don't think I would ever get their personalities ironed out and realistically portrayed. I've done what Mritha has, made a list of characters, their personas, quirks, etc. That always helps.

I'm not sure I've ever written anything with a character utilising an accent. I find it hard to do.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
1/24/2012 16:36:15   
Shadow Ravena
Paladin of Shadows


 Honestly, dialoge is a bit of a bane (fight scene's are worse), made harder by the fact that I write in first person primarily. I have no trouble monologing, and adding in a few extra things to make it seem realer (though I doubt I truly hit the mark well), but whenever I have to use another character it gets difficult. Mainly, in that all my characters sound the same. I write as I speak (which hurts my grammer to be sure) and because of this dialoge tends to sound like two identical people talking, or two people with very little differences. When they're my characters its a bit better, but trying to write NPC's is a pain, not to mention if they be the opposite sex. I don't really do (I think) too much overly lengthy dialoge, as frankly I run out of things to say, and again, I write in first person, not third.
I found that essay intriging, and extremely helpful (especially the sit-down-and-watch-conversations; overly grammar speaking will never be an issue ). Thank you Vox for writing it!

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/24/2012 21:37:00   
lordkaho
Creative!
quote:

Mainly, in that all my characters sound the same.


I REALLY hate this.

When writing dialogues, I should always consider that each character has their own personality and has a limited amount of information. Sometimes I tend to make it that all characters are omniscient in that they answer questions as if they were reading the narrative.
DF MQ  Post #: 11
1/24/2012 21:45:00   
Mordred
Member

It was helpful, but I think less helpful for me than others. My troubles with dialogue are mostly accents(I'm really no good with these), and packing way too much importance into the dialogue. I don't think I have a "he said, she said" problem by looking at my own work, as I have always tried to include gestures and actions(mostly dealing with hands and walking/moving. I should probably expand on face gestures). It really helps to use other ways to say said when you need to use a bunch of different characters in one situation. Terms like reiterated, exclaimed, sneered(which also helps describe their facial expressions while speaking), etc.

I'm looking forward to this exercise. Practice never hurts anyone.

< Message edited by Mordred -- 1/24/2012 21:47:59 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 12
1/24/2012 21:49:14   
Glais
Member

quote:

Mainly, in that all my characters sound the same.

This is what I'm worried about doing. As I'm not amazingly experienced, I usually have no idea what the character actually sounds like until a few days later.
DF MQ  Post #: 13
1/24/2012 21:53:53   
Mordred
Member

Personally, I find a good way to help in dialogue is to describe how they speak. Are they usually gruff? Do they have a gravely voice? Do they have any verbal quirks(like Mordred speaking in Middle English[usually, anyways. ;)])? An obvious accent? All of this helps. Although, I may have a problem in that I write most of my character's voices in the same way; it's hard for me to determine that because I've already formed individual voices in my head(Tumultu sounds like George Newburn in my head).
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 14
1/24/2012 22:26:52   
Goldstein
Member

I love this. So much. My problem is that my conversations go on forever, and I start feeling guilty about that. I keep telling myself, they wouldn't just cut their conversation of here, it'd be more natural for them to talk more.

I do not have the problem of having my characters sound all the same. Why? Because I assign them a quirk, and then let that quirk govern how I write their dialogue. But if they sound too different, it sounds contrived, and that's a problem.
Post #: 15
1/25/2012 14:25:46   
Mirai
Member
 

 I agree: this is very helpful. The point about reading dialogue out loud is simple, yet so easily forgotten. And actively listening to other people's conversations and speech mannerisms makes it so much easier to think about how different characters will respond and 'speak to' different situations.

Many thanks!

< Message edited by Mirai -- 1/25/2012 14:55:53 >
AQ  Post #: 16
1/27/2012 2:06:48   
Eukara Vox
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 I am glad that this has been helpful. I know that there are lots of things to explore in writing, and I started with this one because it is one we all have to deal with. I've enjoyed reading your discussions, concerns, feelings and pitfalls.

So, for those who want to do this, here is your first "Assignment". Choose one of the two pictures below and write a short story (2-3 pages max) that takes place in the picture, the people in the picture being the ones who are talking.

I will create the story thread to put our stuff in, along with an official commentary thread. I encourage you to not only write, but to take the time to do serious reading and commentary. This subject can stay alive as long as we need it to, so no rush. Remember, critique is one of the best teachers.

Remember to copy the link of the picture you choose at the top of your post when you post your picture.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z157/Eukara_photo/Public/Oldfolkconversation.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z157/Eukara_photo/Public/Railroadconversation.jpg


=Class= Dialogue Stories
=Class= Dialogue stories critique and learning

< Message edited by Eukara Vox -- 1/27/2012 2:14:52 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
1/28/2012 18:06:17   
Kinzdor
Member

I just got around to looking at this,and my biggest problem with, dialogue is always trying to make the grammar perfect. I try`ed the observation thing,though I only manged to observe one seal conversation. The list thing seems, like a great idea,and I have never tried writing a accent. I will do the picture assignment later.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
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