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Probability and Balance

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10/28/2012 8:38:04   
Stabilis
Member

Discuss luck/random_number_generation in balance. How does it affect balance; how it can be improved? What is good luck; what is bad luck?

I believe there is an alternative way to incorporate luck in EpicDuel without removing it completely, because chaos is a pleasure.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 10/28/2012 10:30:03 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
10/28/2012 9:05:36   
Mother1
Member

Depressed

Probability is the chance for crit, block, stun, and deflection. As long as their is something with percents this will happen. Also if you were to remove this, then it would always be the most powerful build win and if that were the case there would be OP builds which would suck all the fun out of the game.

However most people complain about this because they remember most of their bad luck rather then their good. I know I have most many times in battle due to a block, deflect crit or stun, but at the same time I have done this to other people. Plus this factor believe it or not keep OP builds in some sort of check many of us wouldn't have gotten some of our wins without this factor as we would have just be slaughtered if we didn't have these coming up.
Epic  Post #: 2
10/28/2012 10:11:53   
Darkwing
Member

Even if luck is random in this game, it helps balance the most. Where would strength builds be if they would never get blocked? Stats and enhancements would be even stronger, since a player with better stats would have a even better advantage. OP builds would be even stronger since luck can't counter them.



< Message edited by Darkwing -- 10/28/2012 10:12:23 >
Post #: 3
10/28/2012 10:27:56   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

@Mother1,

quote:

Probability is the chance for crit, block, stun, and deflection. As long as their is something with percents this will happen.


Also, first turn, the opponent (stats, skills, equipment), choices made, damage range (example: 35 + 20-24 = 55-59), waiting time before rage (as a result of choices made), etc...

quote:

If you remove this... ...there would be OP builds which would suck all the fun out of the game.


IF, and yes, we are not removing it of course. Transmuting probability into something more, influenced. The "overpowered" argument applies to player status balance, luck is not a cause or effect of this, but a result. The backup to a truly chaotic superpower. The last statement is of interest to myself. Fun. This is your perception as an individual. If you came to EpicDuel to seek fun from random chance in an mmo-pvp browser game, nice, you can also do as well in an online casino gaming network. I would have to argue on my part, that in card games as poker being an example, we achieve the fun from social encounters more than probability (unless one is the most strict of gamblers [professional gambler]). We may think the fun is the fact that the "4 of a kind" beat every other player in a swift strike... but I state that being competitive in that trying to win to impress others is the more "fun" aspect of it. This does not apply to myself however.

quote:

However most people complain about this because they remember most of their bad luck rather then their good. I know I have most many times in battle due to a block, deflect crit or stun, but at the same time I have done this to other people.


If this is the case, then I do not understand how useful this would be if luck only wanes from winning to losing in each battle. The lack of consistency endangers the fairness in a strategically played out battle and, in some cases a random event utterly backfires on the supposed winner. This can not be planned for, so it detracts from creative thinking. A portion of players seeking a game of well-formed decision making processes leave because their preference was not met consistently.


< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 10/28/2012 10:28:38 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 4
10/28/2012 10:49:44   
Mother1
Member

At depressed

Then what then? The last idea someone came up with was a block/deflection button that could be used 2 times per fight to equalize the amount of blocks and deflections per match but at the same time I can see it being badly abused and it would still come down to the strongest build winning.

Lower levels would be at the mercy of higher levels and at the higher levels it would be down to who has the most overpowered build. As for why it suck all the fun out of the game, it would because instead of people coming up with their own builds to try and win they would be forced to jump to an OP build just to be able to compete unless of course they having people mop the floor with them.

We already have issues of people jumping to OP builds just to win and those OP build are complaining about the luck factor that help the underdog because they know they are OP and think it isn't fair that an outside factor (The stun I give that OP str BH that beat me 3 time for example) cause them to lose.

While people may not like it when these factors go against them unlike other things in the game it doesn't pick favorite it is equal for all and while you can stack the odds in your favor you can't abuse it.

But more then anything removing this and trying to fix this factor to where it is controlled would remove the underdog thing that is in the game. I know we all had that feeling when we came across a player who was stronger then us but we still managed to come out on top. fixing this factor would remove that completely.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 10/28/2012 10:52:17 >
Epic  Post #: 5
10/28/2012 11:07:27   
Stabilis
Member

^

The solution is easy. EpicDuel would then require more complexity, more options, more variety. Such as: more skills, more possible actions, more options. I have one idea out of billions from the players, I will post that separately.


quote:

Drop everything they do.


Oh come on now, you know that that is an overstatement.

▼

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 10/28/2012 11:32:11 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 6
10/28/2012 11:14:53   
Ranloth
Banned


 Changing whole PvP system in favour of that of OS? Yes let's make Team drop everything they do, re-balance whole game, re-balance stats, and so on because people don't like probability..
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
10/28/2012 13:26:55   
laguna blade
Member

This game ok with many probabilty.
Epic  Post #: 8
10/28/2012 16:43:23   
Promiscuous
Member

Reducing the maximum chance to block/crit/deflect is the way to go but before that get rid of SA. Luck factor plays a huge role in fights right now and I feel that players' skills and strategy have little to no impact on the outcome of the most battles.
Post #: 9
10/28/2012 16:54:08   
laguna blade
Member

Max chance to deflect is 25%. Most of 5 focus high tech depends on this luck.
Max chance to block is 35% without SA. I think this one ok coz blockable skill is very powerful like berzerker, bludgeon, atom smasher.
Max chance to crit is 20% without special. Chance to crit go very slow so it is ok coz if u crit u ignore 50% . If with infernal interidictor ignore 65%. Crits really powerful against tank.
I think probability makes this game interesting but I hate it sometimes.
Epic  Post #: 10
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