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RE: Passive Rework

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9/8/2013 20:31:33   
Xendran
Member

If the devs truly want to fix passives, there are only two options

1. All passives become actives
2. Skills are separated into your Skill Tree and Passive Tree. This tree would have to be designed properly, not something that i can see the ED devs being willing to do.
Doing it properly is more difficult than creating a brand new skill tree for every class.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 9/8/2013 20:53:01 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 51
9/8/2013 20:37:11   
Mother1
Member

@ Xendran

They are going to do option one from what I read in the design notes.

However, many people are against that since it will destroy certain builds while other's won't be affected and still dominate.

The masses here is hoping they will do option 2 on your list instead since they will still keep their passives, but you won't be forced into investing in them.
Epic  Post #: 52
9/8/2013 20:58:48   
Xendran
Member

I haven't been around here in quite some time, but i think if i get the right ideas going in players heads, eventually the devs will have to comply.

I'm working on a little something for these trees. Here's a little teaser of one of the Bloodlust passives:
NOTE: EMP is broken. Needs to be removed/fixed for this to not be suicidal

Bloodlust
Line: Energy
Passive: Final 
Plasma Reaver - Max level: 1
EP damage and regeneration applies to Health instead of Energy
30% Increased EP damage taken
30% Increased EP regeneration effectiveness



EDIT: Here's the bloodlust tree. I will not spend time doing the others.
Any attempts to claim OP or UP are worthless, as there is nothing to compare this to and these are concept.

NOTE: You gain one passive point every 5 levels. 

---BLOODLUST---

Base Passive
Bloodlust
15% of damage dealt is returned as HP

--Line 1 - Defensive--
Blood Oath - Max Level: 2
1. Bloodlust power increased by +2%
2. Bloodlust power increased by +3%

Ensanguined Armor - Max Level: 2
1. 35% of health regained via Bloodlust is applied to your Defence and Resistance for one incoming action
2. 50% of health regained via Bloodlust is applied to your Defence and Resistance for one incoming action
Note: Incoming actions include friendly ones such as healing, shielding, or recieving a second HP Regain via Blood Pact. These will reset your D/R to normal.

Life Reaver - Max level: 1
15% of your damage is converted to HP and not dealt to the target






--Line 2 - Energy--

Excessive Bloodthirst - Max Level: 2
1. 7% of your damage is removed from your EP and converted to HP
2. 13% of your damage is removed from your EP and converted to HP

Plasma Lust - Max Level: 2
1. 10% of Energy spent by opponents to damage you is converted to EP
2. 17% of Energy spent by opponents to damage you is converted to EP


Plasma Reaver - Max Level: 1
All EP damage and regeneration applies to Health instead of Energy
30% Increased EP damage taken including Excessive Bloodthirst
30% Increased EP regeneration effectiveness


--Line 3 - Offensive--
Sustainability - Max Level: 2
Bloodlust will not activate on Criticals

1. Bloodlust power is quintupled when Blocked
2. Bloodlust power is septupled when Blocked


Diamond Blades - Max Level: 2
You cannot block attacks
Strikes pierce 10% of Defence and Resistance

1. Pierced damage has +80% additional Bloodlust power
2. Pierced damage has +160% additional Bloodlust power


Blood Pact - Max Level: 1
15% of damage dealt is returned as HP on the start of the enemy's turn.
Cannot regain Health outside of Passive skills.


< Message edited by Xendran -- 3/19/2014 18:24:04 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 53
9/9/2013 17:16:30   
toopygoo
Member

the idea is remarkable, however, i think it gives level 30 and below jugg battles and even greater advantage unnecessarily. i know someone will bite me in the butt for bringing that up, so i sh9ould mention, it is the most compromising of all responses i have seen to date on this issue, so i still love it.


HOWEVER: i dont think level is what we should be basing it off of, because that gives higher levels an advantage greater than just spending stats, damage, defence, hp and energy... i think it would go a little overboard from that perspective. instead, it should be based similar to something like focus, like a balance among your weapons or equipment. in a game where accumulating and spending are key, it passives should instead be acquired by a questline. for once, qoing quests should be worth than a pretty badge/tokens/credits. the questline would upgrade according to level, HOWEVER, you do not get the bonus from the passives the moment you level up, but rather only when you finish the questline, to where your level allows you to, thus the advantage of passives are available for higher levels, but not given.

the reason i promote this, instead of players getting to level 35 who just grind, and lose a lot, it would require some skill and and extra time to be level 35 with the possible bonuses that come with being a level 35.

alternatively, this also disallows lower levels to create major tank builds, which would leave lower levels as stat abusers, which we do not want to promote at all.

what i would really like to see, is the disappearance of omega, and the return of stat based weapon, with the new cores feature, which would finally return the balance of money as it should be rather than just looks, but of course thats jswut an opinion, and also i know it isnt gonna happen.

nonetheless, and feedback on my input?

_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 54
9/9/2013 17:37:28   
Mother1
Member

@ Xendran

Good ideas, but only for higher levels. If these ideas went into play with the way the game is now, lower levels would stand even less of a chance of winning against higher levels since not only would stats be against them but these passive moves as well. Especially those who are trying to get to the cap level and consistently fight 35 or someone else higher then them. Especially when fighting in Juggernaut mode.

@ toopygoo

In order for omega to be removed the core system would have to go as well since it is part of omega. Also I highly doubt the staff will remove this piece of omega just because some people don't like it. If change was that subjective then just about every promo, change Etc that people didn't like would be gone.
Epic  Post #: 55
9/9/2013 20:06:38   
Xendran
Member

It wouldn't really be too bad since the maximum difference is 1 passive point.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 56
9/17/2013 9:48:12   
Seteriel
Member

Please excuse me if it was mentioned already.

quote:

I have an idea that will compromise both sides. We have players who feel passives are necessary to identify class traits, and players who feel that any skill that MUST be invested into or have to face a poorer performance in battle needs to be nerfed. So how do we fix this? Simple.

We rework passives entirely. Instead of using skill points to improve, they use only level. Meaning that no matter what, you will only ever have a lvl 1 passive. You don't even need to invest skill points into it and it wouldn't even need to be a part of the skill tree, thus opening up a couple extra slots to fill with new skills and to allow filling in of gaps in some trees.

So for example, Mercs no longer have Adrenaline or HA in their tree. They have one single passive that gives them defense and increased rage gain and it improves over time with level. The numbers are the same except spread out. Level 1s will have the same rage gain and defenses as HA and Adrenaline at level 1 and level cap players will have lvl 10 HA and Adren.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I think this is a great way to rebalance passives.
However, i wouldn't let them only depend on the players level. That is too limiting in my opinion. Why not making an additional check towards focus?
Currently focus is only used for bot expertise, but it could be extended to general expertise. The higher the focus level, the stronger bot and passive.
Also, this will take away some dents from extreme builds, as they wouldn't get everything for free.

It could look like this:
level 1+2 of the passive are only dependent on player level
level 3+4 require focus 2
level 5+6 require focus 3
level 7+8 require focus 4
level 9+10 require focus 5

With increasing level caps the focus could also rise.
As an example: level 40 players could achive focus 6 and lvl 11+12 of the new passive skills.

Following ND Mallets suggestion, i understand that the new passives will not have an actual "skill level". But still they somehow need to have a "skill tier",
in order to correspond their bonus values to the players level. And these "tiers" could be chained to a combination of both, player's level and focus.

Also, if i understand correctly, the new passives will not be fixed to certain stats (like at the moment shadow arts needing a certain amount of support).
Again: focus could help to balance them.

< Message edited by Seteriel -- 9/17/2013 9:56:50 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 57
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