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9/20/2014 23:35:34   
iTz Ice
Member

What are your thoughts on Kartherax's Darkspawn?
I myself bought it to try out the new special, which is decent, but in a couple of my matches players were calling this bot special ability overpowered.
However, this bot isn't OP. The game offers enough forms of damage (sidearm, auxiliary, robot attacks, and skills) to counter the effect which only lasts 3 turns.
Players can also cast a shield, heal, or use a skill core to render this bot special useless.
In my opinion what this bot special did was add another layer of skill to the game that isn't in any way shape or form overpowered and only
adds a new factor to the limited build creation.
Epic  Post #: 1
9/20/2014 23:56:00   
Remorse
Member

Agreed,
Tis a shame you need to spend $50 however therefore limmiting the good it does to balance to those who spend.


Kinda like saying, here is a nice way to counter STR builds so you might actually enjoy the game, its gonna cost 50 bucks however...


For me obtaining this bot would mean I might play the game, but I'm not willing to spend 50 bucks to play. Especially considering wat I have had to spend in the past.
Epic  Post #: 2
9/21/2014 0:12:13   
Mother1
Member

I actually like the bot to be honest. I never used it but I have seen it in action, and it makes strength builds cry when used correctly. But seeing as strength builds are the current flavor build of course those who go against it aren't happy.

I am actually tempted to get the promo myself seeing as it has a cool effect that I like.
Epic  Post #: 3
9/21/2014 2:35:41   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I'm not surprised people complain it's OP. I personally find the whole situation hilarious. Here's a pattern that these people typically follow

1. Find some random guy who revolutionizes a build. Strength is the current one. Strength will probably be dominant for a long time as it's unbelievably easy to use and yields very decent win rates.
2. Proceed to kill the game by making 1v1 the most boring thing in the world. Go figure that these same people complain on the forums how there's not enough players to 2v2 with unless you wait 5 minutes to get matched up with 3 other players.
3. Someone develops a counterbuild. Dex TM is a really good example of this.
4. The all-time favorite strength build loses to dex TM consistently. People complain on the forums. If for some reason you haven't read those kind of posts yet, they pretty much sum up to "This build is OP because my current build can never beat it and obviously my current build can never lose since I'm just that good at ED for using a brainless strength build and destroying 1v1 as well as contributing to the destruction of the playerbase"
5. If the original strength build was the 1st build and the dex TM counterbuild was the 2nd, someone makes a 3rd build which is very similar to build 1 and counters build 2. It's quelled the completely "reasonable" anger and complaints on the forums...for a bit
6. The staff releases some balance changes which are actually really interesting and potentially fun, or introduce a new core which is amazingly gimmicky and very unique. Often this is in response to FotM builds to demote the idea of spamming them and bringing about more build diversity.
7. Fast forward to now. People will complain about the fish. "Fish OP" will fill the forums.

If you all have paid attention to the beginning of Omega, this exact thing pretty much happened with strength merc. I speculate this as one of the biggest flaws ED has had for a while but time by time again have failed to fix it despite (possibly) many attempts to fix it.
Epic  Post #: 4
9/21/2014 3:09:13   
Remorse
Member

I don't think this bot will necesarily stop STR builds,


But the exciting thing is, it may make them actually require to think!!!! *gasp*


Could it be that they might actully have to plan their order of skills so that the impact of this core is minimised :O !!!


Could it be that STR may actually stop existing as an effortless cheese win!



If I were a user of STR builds I would actually be happy that they created an effective counter to me because then I can actually use my brain to beat those that don't use the counter properly.



This is the one thing I have seen ED do in a step in the right direction in a long time.


The only issue is that it is exclusive.


I think they should honestly offer this robot in game,

Either that or they will lose a large portion of the player base who aren't willing to spend $50 to get this item.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 9/21/2014 3:10:09 >
Epic  Post #: 5
9/21/2014 3:54:18   
kosmo
Member
 

 Yes ice the bot actually is op.It s just a fact, that you require it if you want to keep your winning rate.Many other wepons, skills and specials can be said op, but this is different, it s stronger than azrael gun when it first came out, it s totally p2w.Many will say I dont appricitate all the work that devs do, but the problem is in how AE acts towards the epic duel community, investing very little on the game, while fooling players with the same seacky tricks, such as:

-changing the balance very often.Instead of giving us a solid, easy and fair balance between classes in one release, they take years for a poor balance, forcing people into class change evry single time.
-hiding evrytime real game mechanics (description of bots, cores and many other things).
-Realeasing op stuff we never asked for.Things like ranks and new promo bot is just what players dont want to see.
-nerf all the op stuff they previously released, just to bring new op stuff.


Many players are aware from supporting the game because of how AE ask us to do it, no game can last long this way, community will never support the devolopment of this game if they keep acting this way.

@Remorse.In design notes is not clear, but the bot IS avariable ingame for the price of 1900 var.

To awnser your post, you re kinda right when you say winning now requires more strategy, I m pretty sure that cheap strenght builds don t stand a chance against the endless 9 turn-intimidate you can perform with merc and bm.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 9/21/2014 6:05:49 >
Epic  Post #: 6
9/21/2014 4:11:15   
Remorse
Member

^ That is a good thing,


STR builds should exist,

But cheap effortless STR builds should not.


Also I didn't realize you could buy it in game that is great news :)
Epic  Post #: 7
9/21/2014 5:03:40   
kosmo
Member
 

 ^The bot ingame allows many players like me to buy it for a relatively cheap price.Releasing it promo only would ve been a big mistake nowadays.
I just dont like that those very very few players who can t afford the price, or cannot get var from their country cannot compete anymore.

Since it s relatively easy to farm with limitless npcs, credits are devalued and we see var only weps sold ingame.Again they re doing what they said they wouldn t have done.
The good thing about this is that it s impossible to add too much op content without breacking the game, so we can either expect to see this bot nerfed soon, or to last very long without being replaced by something stronger.But when they nerf varium stuff it only leads players to quit, so I don t think they will play this game once again, my tought is that they wouldnt release such a strong wepon nowadays if they ever considered nerfing it in future, so I believe it s safe to buy this bot.

< Message edited by kosmo -- 9/21/2014 5:10:39 >
Epic  Post #: 8
9/21/2014 6:17:02   
Ranloth
Banned


 It seems to be a trend now that promo Bots are in-game, for the same reason rare Bots were brought back - variety. Once the package goes rare, so will the Not in-game, and will be back next September (for TLaPD) with a Credit option. Just like Lionhart Not just went rare and also had just Varium-only option. And same with Blood Hawk which will likely be available for Credits now, during the Winter Event.

Also, there are no plans to nerf the Bot at all. There are ways to counter it, and had Str builds not been a fad, it would be barely any more useful than the Yetis are currently. Build variety doesn't contribute to item's balance.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
9/21/2014 6:28:10   
Remorse
Member

^ I agree that the special if fine, but for the sake of consistency the base damage of the bot should probably be lowered.

I can understand the lion-heart bot having 190 damage cause the special is pretty bad.

However this special is great and is similar to the hawk and the abyss in terms of usefulness so it makes seance that it should have the same base damage as those bots.
Epic  Post #: 10
9/21/2014 6:35:01   
Ranloth
Banned


 Damage is also fine. Compared to Black Abyss and Blood Hawk, who have three turn offensive debuff (and lower base), this one has higher base and a defensive debuff. Whilst you have a point with Lionhart, I do also believe its special is re-useable, as opposed to once per battle - hence why I believe the damage is fine for either of these Bots.
AQ Epic  Post #: 11
9/21/2014 6:36:52   
kosmo
Member
 

 @Trans.I believe they wont bring hawck or this bot back for credits, I would like to be wrong, but currently it s way too easy to earn credits with npcs, devs wont allow players to use credits for such a strong wepon.
Epic  Post #: 12
9/21/2014 6:40:13   
Variation
Member
 

 I agree with Trans, it really is all relative to the build. While the robot special is dangerously powerful against strength builds, it's mediocre against other builds. I personally believe the special was genius considering all of the strength builds running around. Just like Remorse implied, they finally have to plan more than they did in the past if their opponent has one of the new robots. In my honest opinion, nothing is wrong with that. It's a good thing, as this game is supposed to be strategy based.

Pretty much if you're using a strength build versus this robot you should be using your primary/primary based skills all the way until they use the robot special. At that point you need to be using ranged attacks, possibly defensive based cores (generator/piston punch), or even your robot/robot special. Strength builds won't be made obsolete by this robot, as there are counters to it. Like I've implied before it all comes down to whether the player wants to use the same strategies or take the time to invest into counters. This is a PvP game, and strategies probably will have to change when new cores come out.
Post #: 13
9/21/2014 6:47:43   
Ranloth
Banned


 @kosmo
If the Bot is currently tagged as seasonal rare, it will be back during the Winter Event and have a Credit option - just like any other Bot that was released since Omega. The same applies to the weapons. After all, there is the Rare Promo policy which mentions promos coming back after a year / during the next event (whichever is sooner). Consider this to be a Staff confirmation.

Going back to the build fad argument - think Botanical Hazard. Remember the low HP era and how powerful it was? Not so common now, with high HP being a thing. Yetis were also a thing, especially when Str/Support builds were really common. Nowadays? Yep. This is no different with this Bot.
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
9/21/2014 7:36:03   
DarkDevil
Member

i only find the damage to be overpowered.
let's not compare it to a completely different one but to one very similar , a yeti.
it's stronger than a fully grown yeti.
main weapon is used by 50% of offensive skills, sidearm and aux aren't.

if we are doing a baseline of balance then it should be obvious that one of the bots is flawed.
if we are saying that this bot special is not strong and therefore he got the highest damage in game then the yeti whose special is weaker should have more damage.

i am just knocking some common sense here.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
9/21/2014 8:16:48   
kaiseryeux21
Member

as a rank 12 mercenary using BC&Zerker combo, i can say that the new bot is a GREAT counter to my build but its not a guaranteed loose for me. As being said, you don't have to use strike all the time. There is heal, hybrid, and aux which will eventually vanished the 3 turn effect of the bot. People find it OP because it is a direct counter to a certain build, but not all builds are affected so it isn't OP, not even close. As for me, i still have no intentions to change my build because there are still many strength builds roaming around and my only counter is to use strength build as well. Im not one of the so called "no brainer strength abusers" but for me, STR build is still very viable so im sticking to it.
DF Epic  Post #: 16
9/21/2014 14:16:30   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Just as yetis synergize greatly with dex builds and intimidate classes, the new bot synergizes amazingly well with malfunction classes and tech-oriented focus builds. Problem is yeti is a lot harder to apply and utilize successfully IMO.

I think the bot is fine as is and wouldn't need a nerf; people should stop relying on strength-based attacks to deal most of their damage.
Epic  Post #: 17
9/22/2014 8:17:08   
King Bling
Member

Actually this bot is pretty descent and a little OP, for str users that is, but then who doesnt use str at all? except dex tm, bm who doesnt use str?

The thing is this bot has +190 base damage, so basically it means the lionhart bot is totally useless, completely useless, since this bot offers a far more powerful and devastating core than that of the lionhart bot.

Second thing is, I myself use str build, and am a bm, and basically when someone uses this core, I think hes wasting his turn, since all I do is gun, aux and heal ( since by that time they do atleast 500 dmg which my heal completely covers up (Lvl 5)).

Even someone can swap heal with gen or piston punch.

This bot is totally fine, dont pop up issues with it or else it too may get a nerf and be same as abyss gear, infernal indicator core, etc etc....
Post #: 18
9/22/2014 8:54:15   
DeathGuard
Member

@King Bling: It won't get nerfed. Trans mentioned it already. The primary and robot's core and damage are balanced and just because some are thinking it is "OP", they won't get the nerf they want for it. I think I have mentioned it several times but something can't be OP if it is beatable/counterable and from what I have read from many of the posts here, it is counterable.

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 19
9/22/2014 9:06:40   
King Bling
Member

In that case many things have got nerfed which were hardly op.
Post #: 20
9/22/2014 9:18:56   
InFlamed Fury
Member

As a person who has been using the bot since day 1 of its release, i can say and agree with most people here that the bot's special is mediocre at best against 5 Focus or tank builds but against STR builds it can get the job done but is still able to be countered easily. Sidearm, shields, debuffs, buffs, heal, other damaging skills that don't require the primary weapon.

While the bot is meant to be a counter to STR builds, not that many people have it and as more people get it, the more people will try out other builds seeing as the bot's special won't completely ruin their build. This bot was an unexpected but good idea for both balance and something new to the game. Ever since it's release (and the new balance patch) i have seen a larger variety of builds being used. Most of them are pretty good while others are in need of a little bit more fine tuning to get better.

I'm happy with the new update overall and most people would agree.
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
9/22/2014 9:51:22   
DeathGuard
Member

King Bling: Something can be nerf even if it is not OP. If it proves to be too strong in comparison to other effects/skills, it is suitable for a nerf with arguments to back up such nerf.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 22
9/22/2014 18:07:35   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Woah didn't know that its base was 190 damage.

Scratch that, it should get reduced down to 170 or so base. 180 would be good too, since it would become pretty much a mirror to yetis. If it's 190 lionharts are completely useless since their special is utter trash.
Epic  Post #: 23
9/22/2014 18:54:36   
Variation
Member
 

 ^That would be a good argument, but the Lionhart robots were already trash before the Kartherax robots came out. To nerf the new robots to indirectly buff robots that were already trash before the Kartherax robots came out is pointless. Even if the damage was nerfed most players would still be using the Black Abyss Bots or Blood Hawks over the Lionhart robots. It's better to compare the Kartherax robots to robots that aren't underpowered like the Lionhart robot currently is. When you compare the Kartherax robots to the Black Abyss Bots and the Blood Hawks the extra 20 base damage it does is completely justified. You can't please every robot in this game when a new one is released. I personally believe the base damage is fine. Even when this robot is versus a strength user the strength user could still win if he played correctly, just as kaiseryeux21 explained. Also the robot only serves as decent damage versus builds that aren't strength based, and that is another reason why the 190 base damage is justified. These robots aren't nearly as useful versus all builds like the Black Abyss Bots and Blood Hawks are, so nothing is wrong with them having 190 base damage. This is just a comparison to other promo robots(very strong robots) besides the Lionhart robots.
Post #: 24
9/22/2014 21:54:35   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 IMO it should at least go down to 180 to mirror the fully evolved yetis.

Also, I wouldn't say it's a buff to lionhart, I'm saying that Lionhart bots' only redeeming factor was its base damage. It's lost that unique trait now, and the release of the new bot has indirectly placed a nerf to Lionhart. It's not a buff; it's restoring the bot to its rightful previous state where there was more than 0% incentive to get it.

On a side note, I honestly don't know why assault bots haven't been buffed yet.
Epic  Post #: 25
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