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Reinvigorate the Suggestion section

 
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5/14/2021 22:36:07   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


I have some genuine question and concerns:

1. Is it me, or does the suggestion section of the forums seem just.. desolate of interaction? It seems like the same people are always posting new ideas and the most that ever happens besides the rarity that people will actually give feedback on someone else's thread, the most will happen is that it will.. exist in the suggestion section.. I mean I might be missing something, but I can't remember the last time I saw something that someone suggested something even of the same concept even be added to the game? It seems like those days in AQ are long gone when you would see those items cited by the creators in the forums.. what happened?

2. Is there a way that there could be some return investment for the people who will spend years coming up with very detailed ideas to help enhance everyone's experience? I'm not referring to guaranteeing anyone's suggestions be implemented, but maybe some kind of incentive for the people who come up with the ideas and something to incentivize people to take ake the time to acknowledge the time and hardwork these people put into their ideas either via support or criticism? Heck maybe have a month each year where suggestions are focused on with a serious attempt to implement at least 1 if feasible? Maybe all of our suggestions suck is the reason nothing gets added, but at least the concepts are worth something and could use some help with balancing the numbers.

3. There are multiple types of suggestions people will post, some just come up with cool stuff that they would like. Others attempt to expand the lore to make it much more deep, immersive, tangible, and fascinating. Among other ideas, others attempt to address things that are lacking to create a well balanced game; I remember when there was a problem of not enough ice armors lol. What is the way that you can objectively identify problematic deficiency in certain area(s)? It seems like the Devs have their direction of stuff they want to go in while leaving holes (sometimes in stuff that don't at least seem like they are even remotely major implementations as far as effort) that other people are dealing with while we're getting a few more things added to the GGBs or just revamping old questlines that could also be a 2 for 1 if the right ones are focused on.

These are just the things I could think of off the top of my head, I wouldn't be surprised if someone else had somethings they wanted to bring up which is why I put this in the discussion. I really tried hard to not come off like I'm coming at the staff like they don't know what they're doing because that's not my intention. But ironically, it does seem like the suggestion part of the forums are a deficiency themselves.

< Message edited by Mr. Roguish -- 5/14/2021 23:24:08 >
Post #: 1
5/14/2021 22:55:27   
PD
Member
 

1. People don't really use the forums these days. Back in the day when forums were actually a primary means, it was pretty active. Also, it's more or less in parallel with the fact that the game's fanbase is a more spread out than it used to be as people use other places (Discord, Reddit, you name it). The staff does look at the suggestions and the forums however. A few things have actually been implemented quite recently that were actually suggestions from the forums for example:

My suggestion to fix animations on very flashy things + Public Custom faces
Gwen's suggestion for a 200K Z token package
A few other small things here and there from other players that I cannot put my finger on for now

These days players tend to either lobby suggestions on Discord, through DM's or forum PM's, or they tend to ask for small requests in the relevant release thread which the staff does look through and answer although not immediately because they are busy people. I still use this place as my main means of communication because it's generally the best place to archive important things or to write more thoughtful responses. I tried to use Discord in the past but I do not like using the software at all with it and its incoherent structure of discussions making it hard to talk about things properly (it's just too "noisy" for me and the app is full of bloat). I would use Reddit but the staff isn't on there. But if they were on Reddit I would likely be there.

2. The most immediate and closest thing to an "investment" or "reward" that exists anyhow is the custom public face. When you make one, the staff acknowledges it's your face and it gets added to the game. Otherwise I can imagine that anything else would likely take up too much time. Other times the staff does this kind of thing is during the GGB crossover or even more recently the current Twisted Event where the Staff actually asked for direct input on what should be added to the game.

Other things I can think of are the donation contests where you are more or less acknowledged and the staff will ask players for what they want. Doomlight was also a community suggested thing as well. Acknowledgement isn't always there but there are times here and there when you can publicly contribute like that. You just have to stay tuned for opportunities. I guess if you really think about it the "reward" is seeing your suggestion in-game.

3. We can identify such problems by just posting them. I've already got a rather large thread about the deficiencies of the early game experience, which everyone has been pitching on on how they feel about it and how it can be improved. Again they cannot always respond to everything but they do look and take notes for improvement opportunities.

< Message edited by PD -- 5/14/2021 23:02:29 >
Post #: 2
5/14/2021 23:59:19   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


I feel the same way about Discord, but from what I hear people talk about, my perception of it, seems Discord is very biasedly favored, though I could be wrong. I feel it would make more sense for the official forum of the website itself would be favored if anything is receiving bias.

Speaking of a perception of bias, now that you mention it, I do remember about the shared custom faces and the 200K z tokens. However.. 2 of those 3 things you said a directly relate to the purchase of or purchasing z token packages. While..... I get the particular interest AQ would have in that area.. I remember those got suggested relatively not that long ago and were nigh expeditiously added not even in comparison to some of these threads with ideas for nigh a decade.. although you did say that there are a few others that you don't remember, is that all it takes? Heck I'd purchase the heck put of some z token packages if they had some of my ideas in them. Though I get the feeling like saying something like that triggers an auto-defensive response that that isn't the case instead of just acknowledgeding it for what it is. Heck the protector set, one of the oldest and most highly request sets that's many of us had all been waiting for to get a revamp, finally got it's due, just for it to be release for a huge amount of Z-tokena even though the previous versions only had the weapons as z-token.

The custom face isn't really an incentive for contributing to the suggestion section of the forums, its a reward for purchasing a z-token package. I referring to an incentive for people (outside of the the devs) to be more active in the suggestions section of the forums rather than just putting something in there and hoping it gets added.

Of course you can identify by just posting them, the issue is the priority of the issues and the direction of the projects. Like awhile ago (the thread got deleted because there was confusion about my identity), I did so much research to identify and prove a big problem and was told that the staff was aware of it but didn't know what way to fix it despite myself having a whole suggestion thread with a plethora of potential solutions. It feels like riding in a car with someone and they're texting and driving, and you point out that they should focus on driving and they agree, but then keep texting while driving. We're got game play holes and we're getting void bosses.. Thats why I ask what is needed to identify a significant deficiency that can objectively understood as making a priority. I feel like if I had the parameters of what to accomplish, I would at least have a tangible goal to work towards instead of just bumbling in the dark and praying for years.
Post #: 3
5/15/2021 14:23:15   
GwenMay
Member

I mean, its unrealistic to post super long threads with custom ideas for items and expect staff to implement them. That's a lot of the stuff I see on the suggestion forum. Staff have their own ideas and schedules, they're not gonna make forum user's OC sets. It's great that a few people like doing that, but the effort they put in should not translate to any sort of reward, that's silly. If you want to make detailed suggestions go ahead but treat it as roleplaying or brainstorming, not game design.


A lot of the quality of life suggestions made on the forums are also usually stuff staff is aware of but require time to implement. The AQ team is very small and they have to keep pumping out new content for players. I would like to see them start doing "bug weeks" or quality of life weeks, but it's up to them.


As for the suggestions that got implemented, like my package suggestion and the Custom Face shop suggestion, both of those were 1) easy to do 2) really popular with players and 3) made money for AQ. Of course those sort of suggestions are going to be more likely to be implemented; the most important criteria being they are easy to do.


As for Discord and Twitter and such, the ways game developers interact with their playerbase has just changed. The era of message boards being the sole means of interaction are long since past; AQ has been lucky enough to survive almost two decades and grow past that.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
5/17/2021 10:37:30   
  The Hollow
AQ Lead


I know it seems like the suggestions area gets ignored, but even if we aren't interacting in your posts, it does not mean we do not see them. Earlier this year I asked Cray to look through your suggestions to find any usable ideas, and I know he did some serious digging. He his going to integrate some ideas here and there in his scripts, and I believe he found enough we can do an entire player-suggested item release in 2022.
AQ  Post #: 5
5/17/2021 21:12:10   
battlesiege15
Member

quote:

player-suggested item release in 2022
Hype!

I do agree having more player based items in game would be nice. I miss those days of having suggestions contests but I understand the staff are busy and overwhelmed getting releases as is anyways so it's not a priority.

I also do agree some more interactions on the suggestions forum would be nice. It's typically just the original thread creator adding ideas to their thread and maybe another person commenting here or there.

For those who are wanting to create some item or have game ideas, don't be afraid to post (after reading the FAQs and what not to post of course)! Most everyone will be happy to give you ideas, critiques, and maybe even help you in the creative process. And do not worry about balancing the items when you make em because the staff will re-do that anyways when they make the items. Personally, I just enjoy coming up with ideas and have been lucky enough to have some items put into the game so the staff do take the time to look through the suggestions :D
AQ AQW  Post #: 6
5/18/2021 22:48:01   
Mr. Roguish
Banned


@GwenMay
You think that players who have been playing for +15 years, who have been diligently and passionately analyzing the game out of a long founded love, to provide feedback AND feasible and detailed solutions (sheerly for the benefit of the Devs to take a lot of the thinking work off their plates') specifically tailored to the shortfalls present, rather than just "cool stuff they wish were in the game"; receiving some small amount of recognition and appreciation for their effort to enhance the game for others to create a more satisfying experience as well as incientivizing more community activity that would, engender even more of the loyalty that has kept this game able to:
quote:

survive almost two decades and grow past that.

and a potential resurgence of active players due to a profound level of player satisfaction; is "silly"?
I specifically mentioned not having anything by way of guaranteeing anyone that they would specifically get their ideas implemented so its not like I'm asking that in the first place.

AQ does not
quote:

have to keep pumping out new content for players.
They put that on themselves to do so for their own reasons (not for a lack of appreciation). However, while I cannot speak for others (although you essentially admitted to at least somewhat desiring the same thing) I personally would much rather they slow down and take their time to address the issues instead of trying to champion on and put out new stuff that will have to be added to the mountain pile later of stuff they have an issue with. The incident with the late release of the long awaited protector set and other times are evidence that the loyal players will continue to support and wait patiently. Heck people have been waiting on the archmage class since the wizard class was updated. We are patient, and being patient is a lot easier when you have reassurance that the concerns you are addressing are actively being worked on, rather than "we'll get around to it in some unspecified future".

It is not lost on me about the time consumption of balancing and implementing the detailed suggestions, but that is why we try to give as detailed suggestions as possible, so that the vast majority of the thinking is already done. My goal when I made a lot of my item suggestion was to mirror as close as possible (given the limitations of the format of a threat/comment post) a encyclopedia entry. Why? It is my attempt to make it as seemless to implement as I possibly can. Its one thing to try to fix an issue and have to come up with potential solutions yourself, its another when people have already done the brunt of the mental work already and provided it for yout to just weigh your favorite and polish the details.
However, some of the suggestions (trying to not specifically talk about mine because that's not the point of this) are actually designed in an attempt to help the Devs and create less work for them for the future as well as still meeting the overall intent. Everyone knows I have been nigh screaming about the lack of rogue themed items in the game considering that it is one of the three no drop item character alignments for the start of the game as well as an entire class that has 2 direct classes that build from it. When I first started playing, I was playing like a standard ranger but I really wanted to use daggers. Alot of the game treats daggers as weaker swords, and a lot of the best swords were these big soul caliber looking weapons. The whole initial reason I switched from STR to INT was because I could actually find feasible to use daggers that were magic than melee. The concept of being able to use spells because I have magic as well as liking the idea that a rogue should be really smart instead of assumingly this big pound of muscle the size of bowling balls with maxed out STR. I digress, the idea was for more armors to have that animation where the weapon and sheild are static at the bottom of the screen and the armor has its own built in and animated weapons. This in theory would:
• reduce frame overload from the big super detailed weapons (seriously I nigh almost can't even fight cerberus with the ultimate dragon scythe of elements)
• reduce time of animating each weapon onto every armor in the correct position of where it would be feasibly held and bounced back and forth while being held
• reduces immersion break by allowing people to nigh use any weapon they want without feeling like they're betraying the intent of their build.

Even still those suggestions get treated like the rest even though they are designed to reduce work.


@Hollow

Yall are the best! I'm not 100% sure you specifically mean yall are going to implement "my" ideas specifically or something along the same concept. But I cannot express my gratitude that yall would take the time and effort to genuinely address something other players and I' have been suffering through for years.


@Battlesiege
While I guess in an overall standpoint, people comment on each others threads to provide feedback; in my opinion, it is severely lacking, no-where near what it used to be. More often than not, the creator just keeps posting new ideas and maybe the same 2 people comment. I really go out of my way to at least comment on as many people's threads as possible to either give feedback or approval especially if they don't have any/that many in the first place. It might be unrealistic, but I would really like more of that to go around, if there are 50 suggestion threads, it is my goal that everyone has approximately 25 different people leaving comments of support and/or feedback. This will help the Devs know what stuff the community wants prioritized as wells as helps each other create better suggestions to help take the planning stage off the Devs.

< Message edited by Mr. Roguish -- 5/19/2021 1:44:33 >
Post #: 7
5/19/2021 3:12:01   
battlesiege15
Member

I do wonder if it's because the Suggestions tab was moved down that less people pay attention to it. And also because the forum isn't what it used to be.
AQ AQW  Post #: 8
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