Telcontar Arvedui I
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@Ward - Your math is definitely more accurate than what I posted in another thread, though thankfully I still arrive at the conclusion you did. The numbers prove that with the proposed formula, Guests at 0 END still heal at a higher efficiency than Healing Spells at expected corresponding stat investment. That alone should be reason enough to not necessitate conceding a portion of stat-scaling back to CHA. Am I still willing to concede up to 80:20 END/CHA scaling for Pets and Guests that heal HP? Only if the devs make that call.
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@Chaotic - Thanks for correcting my numbers. I have to admit, prior to your response I hadn't really caught on that 105 player HP is equivalent to 404 monster HP. I guess the Chosen really is more equal than other Lorians :P
Consider me convinced and on-board supporting the Healing formula. But only for HP Heals - I am still advocating for MP/SP Healing being standardised according to equal/equivalent %Melee exchange rates, instead of being directly scaled by END (or any single stat, for that matter). And I will still put forward some variants of your formula, for reasons stated below.
@Grace - Another thing to consider is that, since those are HP Heals at 0 END, the implications are that the player character has the opportunity to allocate those statpoints elsewhere. The obvious example would be into CHA, for an extra 20 %Melee pet damage output per turn, which may just be enough to deal the finishing blow to the monster with that extra one (1) turn gained from Healing. Something along the lines of:
Turn 8: Player heals, pet attacks, monster attacks and player doesn't die.
Turn 9: Player attacks, pet attacks, player wins.
instead of
Turn 8: Player attacks, pet attacks, monster attacks and kills the player at 38.9 %Melee health left.
Of course, the scenario above would be a one-in-a-million, but that's to be expected. My point being the statpoint allocation opportunities presented by 0 END investment should be enough to capitalise on any extra turn, whether singular or plural, gained from casting a Healing Spell. That's why my goal is to simply make sure HP Heals at 0 END do not end up being irrevocably detrimental to the player, and therefore counterintuitive to gameplay at all levels. We do NOT want to have to tell new/casual players that the Healing Spell they bought from Warlic's is actually an absolute, undisputed waste - because they have 0 END.
Still, here are some variant formulae for you (and others perusing this topic) to consider:
quote:
END-scaling formula #3 for HP Healing: = [Heal] * (0.65 + 0.35 * END/Expected_END)
END-scaling formula #4 for HP Healing: = [Heal] * (0.65 + 0.5 * END/Expected_END)
Abuse prevention measures are implied even though not explicitly included in the formulae.
In the (unlikely? far future?) event that this game equalises both player and monster HP (i.e. 1 Player HP = 1 Monster HP), a 0.65 base power Heal reaches 99.45 %Melee. Add that to a 20 %Melee pet damage output, and we'll be able to ever-so-slightly overtake the expected monster damage output of 119 %Melee. With 0 CHA and 0 END investment to boot. So IMO a 0.65 base power HP Healing Spell is about as future-proof as we're going to get.
However, raising the baseline power does result in 2 immediately obvious outcomes that we must choose between. Either we accept the dilution of END-scaling (from *0.5 to *0.35), and thus accept that END has to be less appealing in this regard, or we maintain the END-scaling factor of *0.5, nudging HP Heals into power-creep territory.
Personally, I'll be in favor of the latter. Because w.r.t. HP alone, currently END already offers buffs to HP_HealRes and flat maximum total HP. We should be able to funnel those power budgets into Formula #4, thus alleviating power-creep concerns. Which brings me to my next topic.
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How much HP do we, the player character, really need?
This is a topic I want to address, given its relationship to HP Healing - I agree with the notion that "the less HP totals you can have, the more reason for you to need/want HP Healing". Therefore, I did a thought experiment on how much HP is required to sustain the most obvious counterintuitive playstyle IMO, i.e. hyper-offensive attrition in FO Elecomped armour and correct elemental shields.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1881rgjHJpU64HIatgeglINT4dG-7hs__dnFVBDd8rQU/edit?usp=sharing
EDIT 3rd April: Welp, I predicted this - wrong assumptions, wrong results. Google Doc has been updated, new write-up below. Sorry Chaotic!
The results, as seen in the Google Doc linked above, is quite surprising, at least to me. Such a playstyle deals in big outgoing and incoming damage, yet with 1 single Healing Spell at 250 END, the player character can defeat the average monster while only sustaining a hair above 1400 %Melee in damage, almost conforming exactly to the basic player turn model. Even if we do away with that Healing Spell, the player character would intake approximately 2100 %Melee in damage, i.e. only require 250 END to provide +50% to the player's total HP.
The results, as seen in the Google Doc linked above, are less surprising after the corrections, but still points in the same general direction. Such a playstyle deals in big outgoing and incoming damage, yet with 1 single END-scaled Healing Spell at 250 END, the player side can output 1400 %Melee while taking in ~2400 %Melee in return. That's ~73% extra HP required from the 0 END baseline. Sorry Chaotic, you gotta withdraw your compliments now!
Although, I believe it's still worth noting that I achieved those results while still leaving a lot of headroom open, from winning Initiative, to further midbattle equipment changes, to Stat Bonuses, to a whopping 250 uninvested statpoints. If I input a better EleComp multiplier (*1.84 instead of *1.7) for example, and add a +5% MC damage bonus to the weapon, these two changes alone would've won the fight one turn earlier, bringing total damage intake down to ~1900, or only ~37% extra HP required. The inference here is that maximum END investment giving +100% to baseline HP is totally unnecessary from a tanking perspective, when one of the most counterintuitive high-risk playstyle can comfortably win battles with less than +50%. I would daresay actual players that pursue this kind of playstyle are smart enough to minmax their way to only require no more than +22% baseline HP for tanking purposes.
Again, I am not familiar with all this math, therefore I could very well be off by a couple hundred %Melee. Which is why I post this out here to invite further debate and playtesting (including with different playstyles, such as Backlash). But until I am proven horribly wrong (again), I will use these results to posit that 250 END only needs to give the player character 15 to 20 20 to 40 percent extra total HP (i.e. add between 592 and 1184, to 0-END's 2958 max HP), AND the remaining power budget of END can/should be allocated towards HP Healing (and/or status resistances). That is not to say the devs cannot choose to give more, of course. But I would still disagree with that decision, because as far as I can tell, the excess HP will, 99 percent of the time, only be converted into upfront damage output buffs, which defeats the intent of END providing tanking options.
In conclusion - yes, by broaching this topic, I am fully aware of the possible end result being changes to HP Healing and nerfs to total HP. But I will claim with confidence that all of my posts in this thread aim to a) give HP Healing a (narratively + mechanically) cohesive identity, b) tangentially, give END a more prominent identity by tying it to HP-related mechanics, thus really turning END into the endurance/tank/healing stat, not the EO-resource-conversion-abuse stat.
< Message edited by Telcontar Arvedui I -- 4/2/2024 22:24:21 >
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