RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (Full Version)

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legolas the high -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/14/2009 12:08:59)

I personally don't see a point in buying the 3% interest rate on your house. Didn't z-token purchases became cheaper recently?

I also thought that they wanted to get rid of the interest rates all together. That would be a bit to cruel for the people that didn't hop along getting the houses when they just came out with 3% interest rate.
But if you think it this way: 50 z-tokens a day, say you would basically play 75% of the year to get too the cap of the z-tokens you can earn daily. You would have 50x(365x0.75) = 13.5 z-tokens.

So basically you can have the best estate, and decent buildings on your estate. Within 2 years.



Wen Su the Tank -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/14/2009 12:15:36)

quote:

So basically you can have the best estate, and decent buildings on your estate. Within 2 years

and thats why the interest is 1% which does seem quite fair due to many free loaders (includin me)



atrus -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/14/2009 12:30:13)

What I was trying to say was that for new players with money the whole housing situation is probably frustrating. They would have to spend a lot of money to just simply get a house (not to mention all the expensive addons and guards). It makes sense to give an extra little perk to someone who purchases tokens. The free loaders wouldn't get anything extra, but the people that paid would feel like they got a little more for their money. I bought tokens once (5000 for 20$) and I was very frustrated how they could hardly buy anything in AQ when 20$ was quite a lot of money in real life.

Legolas: You're assuming pretty hardcore playing for that. I play much more casually than that. I also don't see how this idea would be cruel if they instituted it retroactively. Who would they be screwing over?



Travis Touchdown -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/14/2009 12:31:51)

quote:

I agree. I cant ever get a larger house cause it would take about 5 years from the smallest one.


This is the one problem I had when the most recent interest rate change occurred. Alot of the lower level houses now feel practically useless, outside of a quick and easy way to grab a (rather limited) amount of potions, which are rather easy to find normally (just not as fast), and definitely not worth a couple thousand tokens. Sure, a couple of the medium class houses have some temporary armour and weapons, but still nothing to write home about.



Shirefolk -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/14/2009 12:48:29)

Yes, there needs to be something more to the medium houses and non-estate properties.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/14/2009 22:03:40)

Perhaps increase the interest rate again, but have a cap on how high it goes?
OR houses could also be bought with "special coins" or a combination of special coins and z tokens. Interest rate would be in special coins rather than tokens, so it would help you save up for new houses but not get other token items.



jolabong -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/14/2009 22:15:37)

It should be easier for one to break even with the non-estate properties(which are mostly the cheaper ones) as they can use Ballyhoo and regular battles(regular, everyday events) to recoup their expenditure in time. Also, increasing but implementing a cap on housing interest would only re-introduce and exacerbate the whole "purpose of housing is to generate tokens" issue again. As mentioned before in the thread, houses aren't token generators.

quote:

Original: 137ben
OR houses could also be bought with "special coins" or a combination of special coins and z tokens. Interest rate would be in special coins rather than tokens, so it would help you save up for new houses but not get other token items.

... You do realise that Z-Tokens are, in every sense "special coins" already? :P Introducing a whole new currency(especially one dedicated purely to housing purposes, or any specific purpose for that matter) would only complicate things. How would one be able to obtain them in-game(would those methods be as specific?), what about purchase of this special new currency.. etc. AQ's financial sysyem would become convoluted, disorientating the playerbase.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/15/2009 7:30:48)

^^The sellback for houses would be in the other 'special coins'. For buying houses purposes they would be equal to tokens. I don't see what is so complicated about that, as the point of housing interest was to help you save up for the next house.
Also, a cap on interest would NOT introduce the token generator issue, because you could just get enough tokens to help save for the next house.



The Almighty -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/15/2009 8:49:18)

I have to agree with 137ben on this one. Housing tokens would be a good idea under the right circumstances; being that they are a totally optional course.

1) houses are purchaseable with both tokens or housing tokens or a combination of the two (using housing tokens first, and filling in the rest with ztokens)
2) the sellback of houses is either regular ztoken sellback (90%-50%)* OR remains 90% with an amount of interest in housing tokens**.
3) house accessories can be purchased with ztokens OR housing tokens OR a combination. the sellback would be 90-50% of your ztokens paid and the same for housing tokens. if a combination is used, you get back a combination at 90-50% depending on when you sell it.

*90-50% of the ztokens you paid, not the cost of the house. otherwise inflation would still be a problem (buying with your housing interest and selling for ztokens.)
**90% of the house cost, irreguardless of how you paid for it, ztoken or housing token, your housing tokens work how they do now



jolabong -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/15/2009 9:26:58)

I believe the point of buying a house is to enjoy the benefits it offers, not as to accumulate a token pool for the next house. If you have an insufficient number of tokens/regard house benefits as unattractive, you can choose not to buy the house. W tokens pay for house X. It stops here, instead of W tokens paying for house X, which in Y amount of time can generate enough to pay for a better house Z. That said, isn't 1% weekly interest still something? Also, one can see things in another manner(allow me to quote myself) --
quote:

Original: jolabong
From another viewpoint, it wouldn't be logical(even though this was never LogicQuest) for housing to significantly appreciate in value indefinitely. In fact, housing value should depreciate over time instead of appreciating at all. I don't see how housing interest couldn't stagnate(the benefits of housing would legitimize this quite sufficiently); that it is increasing(albeit slowly) can only be a good thing, if not neutral.

Shouldn't we make the most of what we have instead of perpetually yearning for more? Personally, I do feel the non-estate houses do deserve some updates to increase the qualitative and quantitative aspects of what they have to offer; in all fairness though, they do tend to cost less. Also, one can recoup initial token capital with significantly more ease from everyday events such as Ballyhoo and regular battles.

As for "housing tokens", it's one thing to make a suggestion(which I would like to see in-game too, you know), but another for its implementation. In a nutshell, it would be nothing short of problematic to integrate a whole new currency into the game; aside from the currency per se, there are other factors to consider such as availability and ease of purchase(if purchase can even be made possible). There would also need to be a fair bit of explanation to be done so as to enlighten the playerbase as a cohesive whole.

EDIT: Even if "housing tokens" have their uses justified by players and staff alike, are they really needed?

EDIT: If you own a house, will you expect it to become more valuable with time's passing? No. It could only become older, dirtier and all, thus fetching a progressively lower sellback. In AQ, this would not be feasible, as players might end up with a sellback below the house's initial cost. So we should be thankful that current housing actually accumulates, regardless of rate(and that there is no housing tax in Lore). :P



Darkstars -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/15/2009 10:59:05)

In the example for real housing another analogy is you sell the house five years later with new renovations for more than you bought it for. After taking into account inflation you might have actually lost money. Since there is essentially no inflation in AQ I wouldn't be opposed to there being no growth in housing value. It's unreasonable to think that just because a house is standing it should be worth more and more with no economic causes.



OnuaNuva -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/15/2009 11:09:13)

Quick and Easy Answer:

Upon the purchase of the house the sellback remains at 100% for one week.

From then on for 25 weeks the house value depreciates by 2% each week, stopping at 50%.

At that point the house increases in value by 3% of the starting value each week, stopping after 17 weeks when it hits 101% of the original value.

From that point on the house value increases by 2% of the original value every week.

This would take 91.5 weeks to double the original value, (1.759 years).

Currently, it takes 110 weeks (2.115 years)

From then on every 50 weeks (just under a year) it would gain the original value.

Different numbers can be toyed around with, but the idea is that it originally depreciates before giving a return.



Aca6ar -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/15/2009 12:22:53)

I think the cheaper houses should have a higher interest rate than the more expensive ones.
Once you have a mansion estate there isnt any point of having interest, at which point it will decrease to 1%
So you can get to the bigger house but once you do you cant just accumulate z-tokens.



legolas the high -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/15/2009 14:46:14)

^yes it loses 2 levels.

And what about this:

House regain their old interest rates. But the houses z-token sell price wont increase over 1000 z-tokens the house was worth when you bought it.
All houses above 9000 z-tokens keep their current z-token interest
So then new people can grow at the same speed we did, but when they get too the good houses they get the option of 1: wait for long time and gather z-tokens free. 2: Buy z-tokens to get their perfect house.



COMPACTER -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/16/2009 12:03:43)

May i should post this in the suggestion section however thoughts first, what if you leave the estates the way they are BUT buying options or guards are all in Gold, if i wanted to add properties i could use my gold to purchase and increase levels rather then buying them in tokens and not having enough to level up.




Anvos -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/16/2009 13:20:04)

quote:

EDIT: If you own a house, will you expect it to become more valuable with time's passing? No. It could only become older, dirtier and all, thus fetching a progressively lower sellback. In AQ, this would not be feasible, as players might end up with a sellback below the house's initial cost. So we should be thankful that current housing actually accumulates, regardless of rate(and that there is no housing tax in Lore). :P


Now in a way I think this is flawed premise for a few reasons
1. For all we know beyond sleeping when we log off our characters might be little handy men or women who like to work on keeping their house in shape and up to date.

2. The property probably would experiance slight value increases since with the longer you live there realistically the less wild monsters should be in the area of land you get with the house decreasing the danger of wild life attack thus increasing value.

3. Look at the places the land you are buying are in and tell me the land value in those areas wouldn't go up.
Darkovia~ Housing values would realistically be depressed due to the about 6 sided war going on over the forest leaving prospects of increased land value when the war dies down again thus allowing speculative post war costs to drive up the current price of Darkovian land.

Lolisa(Beach)~ Its beach front property and the more of such prime land is baught up the more the price of the other beach front properties go up from the lessinging supply of availale beach front property.

Battleon(Forest)~ Battleon is an ever growing hub for the increasing hordes of adventures and NPCs meaning it seems like good land to your aspiring adventures thus eating up supply of plots increasing property value.

Frostvale~ Okay best I can come up with here is the yearly tourism and the fact your neighborhood is partially populated with kind helpful frost moglins who keeping inventing new items to be presents for the next frostvale.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/16/2009 18:00:05)

The idea of housing always losing value is not true in real life. In some areas, such as my neighborhood, housing that was once cheap is now worth several million, or more. So if I sold my house in real life I would have made a HUGE amount, not lost.

Museum people are probably going to be really disappointed at the results, since they bought the museums BEFORE knowing what the effect would be...



Traveler -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/16/2009 18:23:48)

Using real life examples to ask for changes on the pricing system of AQ housing won't lead us anywhere. In real life, real state is an extremely complicated market affected by many variables, both related to each house (how well it has been preserved, if there have been reparations made, how old is it), to the area (equipment -libraries, hospitals, etc.- built in the vicinity, changes in the average income of the neighbourhood residents), to the real state business (lack/overabundance of housing relative to the demand, government programs aimed to encourage/discourage renting), to the economy as a whole (interest rates, unemployment, good or bad economic situation in the country) and even to cultural issues (the age at which young people is expected to leave their parents' homes, extended families living under the same roof being common or not).

It is evident that AQ's engine cannot come even remotely close to replicate all those variables. Therefore, housing pricing and sellback has to be determined by a simple system. And that system is logically tuned to what AE feels that is more benefitial for their bussiness.



jolabong -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/17/2009 6:56:12)

My two cents worth on why housing value cannot increase over time in AQ. In the real world, housing value increases due to:
  • A flourishing economy
  • Demand for land

    Issues like demand for land area and RL economy aren't applicable to AQ -- rather, they cannot be integrated into AQ due to them being too nuanced(for economy issues, at least -- it is assumed that Lore has and will have no lack of land anyway -- a consequence of magic :P). Conversely, we must accept as a fact that the value of a house per se can only decrease over time. That much can be implemented ingame, as it is a constant that does not differ regardless of circumstance.

    .. And all the above is just an alternate way of viewing things. In actuality, we aren't supposed to be concerned about housing interest as it is not within the jurisdiction of housing benefits. From my earlier post --
    quote:

    Original: jolabong
    I believe the point of buying a house is to enjoy the benefits it offers, not as to accumulate a token pool for the next house. If you have an insufficient number of tokens/regard house benefits as unattractive, you can choose not to buy the house. W tokens pay for house X. It stops here, instead of W tokens paying for house X, which in Y amount of time can generate enough to pay for a better house Z.

    At least, I think this is the case.



    • COMPACTER -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/17/2009 8:16:31)

    I don't know where these people who state the housing economy in real life is loosing money cause if you were living in ontario or in canada the housing industry is hotter then ever, i have sold several of my own homes and made serious money from it. Property in Ontario if being sold usually last no more then 2 weeks tops my past house sold for full asking price within 6 day's.

    So do not use local or individual economy to base your stats.

    Housing in game or in real life should never lose money that would just be totally unrealistic.



    Mystical Warrior -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/17/2009 8:26:53)

    @COMPACTER you do know this is a game...like you said don't base local or individual economy...and think this...do you suppose people will buy ancient or really old houses for a high price tag(unless of course if they are antique collectors)?



    Traveler -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/17/2009 12:06:42)

    quote:

    I don't know where these people who state the housing economy in real life is loosing money cause if you were living in ontario or in canada the housing industry is hotter then ever, i have sold several of my own homes and made serious money from it. Property in Ontario if being sold usually last no more then 2 weeks tops my past house sold for full asking price within 6 day's.


    As I said, there are many variables that affect housing prices and therefore the situation may vary wildly from place to place. If you insist in real life examples, is Spain the burst of the "real state bubble" has been so bad that it is the main driving force behind the current economic crisis, which is more serious here than in most other european countries. Construction and real state speculation were the most active areas of the Spanish economy until the offer went so out of hand (it is esteemed that there would be no need of building any new housing for the next five or six years, since the current recently constructed and yet unselled -or selled and repossesed by banks due to owners being unable to pay the increasing interests of their mortgages- housing would be enough to absorb all the demand) and the prices went so unrealisticly high that the market ended up collapsing. The result? Earlier this year I bought an appartment that would have costed me at least 20% more a couple of years ago.

    So, as you see, supposing that real estate prices will go up indefinitely is a very unsafe assumption.



    Lord of Nightmares -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/20/2009 20:50:57)

    I'm still holding out for the underground plots assuming that's what will included with the next update just so that I can install a 2nd Storage Building.



    Conspiracy -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/20/2009 21:34:07)

    Oh! I almost forgot about the underground plots!

    Hope they have something like underground Oil Drilling, underground Reservoirs and underground Diamond/Coal mines!

    I'm pretty sure you guys know what sources these will affect [:D]



    Anvos -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (11/21/2009 0:47:25)

    I wouldn't count on oil drilling considering LORE widely still has no use for it yet.

    However I could see

    Mines that gen stone and maybe a couple gold each day but consume other resources
    Mana Collector and Fishing Pond being able to move underground
    Underground Mushroom Farms that also gen a little mana along with food.
    Maybe in a wild dream some sort of cave tree/giant vine farm so Darkovia can finally get better wood gen.
    Also there are those other thing Ruharb has mention like the Rouge Shack.



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