RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (Full Version)

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ChaoticFlame -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (10/17/2009 17:57:57)

Satisfyingly dark Helixi. Anytime I'm in the mood for poetry, my mind usually flies to your thread. Not many people can claim that. Keep up the good (and somewhat gruesome) work! :D


~CF

As Helixi noted, page-claiming isn't allowed. - Cow Face



Helixi -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (10/17/2009 18:18:07)

Thanks CF. :) Though page claiming isn't allowed in L+L, even though I would let you keep it.



Wolfstorm -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (10/28/2009 7:36:16)

Crickey. Love ya poems. It is so my type of stuff!



Helixi -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (11/5/2009 13:23:34)

Thanks Wolfstorm. :)

I'm working on some new stuff now, check back for updates often! :)



Fleur Du Mal -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (11/15/2009 13:31:45)

This critique is the response to your request in the Workshop thread. - Part 1/2


Oh my, you have been waiting for quite some time. There are some shorter individual poems that I have not commented on below, but I believe what I have to say about them should be covered with my general comments.

Please note that most of my comments are highly depending on my personal opinions and likings, so are my suggestions. I'm hoping to provide you with an alternative viewpoint as a reader to your poems rather than trying to convince you to change them because there would be something wrong with them. So I hope I'm not going to offend you even though my detailed comments might occasionally look like the work of a meticulous butcher.

In general, I find your poetry very entertaining and fitting to the realm of vampires and all that is gothic. The mood in majority of them is enchanting and I adore the subtle lingering sensuality, whether it is in the foreground or in the background. There are poems where you have such beautiful yet fragile imagery that it's simply stunning, eg. in Single Grey Flower. Yet, there are some poems where there's little imagery, only a course of events, eg. in Dead Weight, Feeding Time, Guilty Innocent.

For poetry to work for me personally, I look for emotions, imagery, and another dimension behind that which is obvious (metaphores, figurative meanings). So, I'm a little baffled with poems that have little else than a course of events. This may, of course, be due to the fact that I haven't been able to relate to the poem in question and when the said events are enough for someone else to have an emotional reaction, I just fall short. However, since Coyote also talks about the importance of figurative and literal meaning in poetry in his guides, this is an issue you might want to be aware of.

On to the details:

Artist

This poem has a certain appeal to it, the choppiness works most of the time in halting the reader as the artist sits halted himself. The shifts in tense are peculiar, though. Especially when you note simultaneous action with 'as' while having the actions in different tenses:

quote:

The roses cried
As he sits alone.


I'd recommend changing all lines in the first two stanzas to the past tense.

Roses
This would be a poem where the readers' personal opinions commands the reaction, depending on whether they like the repetition or not. To me this works as a piece that has the feel of fleeting thoughts to it.

My personal opinion here would be, though, to keep the last line also identical, without the new adjective. It's probably just because I thought that setting the character's death in line together with her laughing, etc, would give the poem additional depth.

To me, associating 'death' with 'black', thus drawing difference between that event and the display of emotions that precede it, is maybe a bit obvious. But presenting the roses falling regardless of what happens to her would purrhaps draw a different kind of continuum. In case I'm making any sense here. =)

It's totally your call, though. Whichever you prefer here stands.

Child
This is simple and beautiful, almost like a haiku (except that the last line would be two syllables short, heh).

Son of Death

Somehow, this poem feels incomplete to me. Very much like a beginning of a story, with only clues to what's in it, yet the whole story never told. Have you ever thought on expanding this? Because, imo, it's only a fragment now.

Vampire, Death, In the Mirror, Unborn, My Heart
My interpretation on these five poems is that they'd present thoughts, different takes on what is fitting in all things vampiric and gothic. I'm not certain if I'd wish more dimensions to them. Imo, there's now the essence of the vampire behind each of them, like an answer to a riddle. In the mirror is the one poem readily offering more interpretations to it, and that's why I like it the most out of these.

Death's Queen, Death's Slave
Imo, this is a very good poem in all of its dark romance. There's a contradiction, though.
quote:

I will never be whole

This line feels odd, as it is later stated that the persona in the poem shall be whole after the coronation. Maybe 'I am not whole' would just note the current state of things without challenging or disputing the change that happens later: I can never be whole/Until I die and am crowned with bones.'

Flirt/My Suicide
There seems to be a typo:
quote:

I had felt Death's chill hand before

I think that should be 'chilly' or 'the chill in Death's hand'
Aside of that, my only suggestion for this poem would be about the last line:
quote:

I was still.

Imo, the previous line would make a far stronger impact as a closing line.
quote:

And Death caught me and held me tight.

Holding tight and getting caught are simply far more descriptive and leave stronger impressions on the reader than the slightly insignificant 'was', imo.

Of course, again, it's your decision whether to edit, or to cut that last line out or not.

The Turning
I might very well be borderlining nitpicky now, but I think trying to draw the memories and the loss stated on the last line together tighter might improve the feel of forlorn sadness here. I'd suggest spoon-feeding what is included in the 'everything' again in the ending. The touch, the friendship, sun, etc. Maybe it's just me, but leaving it at, 'and yet I had lost everything' doesn't quite reach the feel of loss I'd expect to be portrayed here.

Single Grey Flower
I absolutely love this one for the pain in the beginning and the experienced hope under the watery sun in the end. Good imagery.

Immortal's Death
Another poem that I interpret as a window to all things vampiric. It's a haunting thought. Grammar-wise, some apostrophes would seem to be missing:
quote:

Until you have felt Deaths kiss
Until you have rejected Days embrace

'Death's' & 'Day's' or 'Days''

Wounds
Hmm, I'm not familiar enough with Linkin Park to point out the influence. Maybe I'd wish for more elaboration and details how the wounds connect to the 'you' in the poem.

Isolation
One typo:
quote:

But soon our blesseing becomes our curse

'blessing'

Other than that, I don't have much more to say besides the fact that you sum up the theme of the poem pretty well together in the last two lines.

Music
Although the idea of defining the music as the sounds the other makes makes this poem very intimate and effective in its own way, I think the presentation is very prose-like. This makes the poem seem more like a few lines written on a note or in the beginning of a letter rather than a poem. Or maybe I'm just over-sensitive to this, as I battle also myself with writing poetry that sounds more like prose than lyrical poetry.

Blood sings
Another short poem that is a short intake on vampirism, or so I interpreted it, this time from the victim's point of view. Imo, this could be way longer or combined with the other short views. Just to entertain the idea on elaborating this, there's still so much to explore in the scene you have depicted here. Why was the person content, what did they get out of it, and so on. I think that could make this poem grow until it would stand out of it's own and tell the whole story of surrending.

Night Terror
The first four lines seem to have a rhythm of their own, so after that the fifth line seems a bit conflicting or meddling with the rhythm. I'm not sure if trying to cut it shorter would help to adjust its rhythm in line with the rest of the poem.

Blood and Tears
This poem I have commented on before and I still adore it. =)

Feeding Time
Imho, this poem might be a tad too literal. You are describing what happens, but why? What do you want to say with this poem? I'm not seeing the depth nor the strength of emotions beyond the feeding here. How does it make the persona in the poem feel when they know that he wants them? I'd recommend diving a little farther into the emotional side here, so that the poem would grow past stating the events.

My First Heartbreak
Hmm, there's definite delicateness in the latter part of this poem, quite adorable, imo. =) My problem here would be that I don't understand why would you need the Before-part to it? Those lines seem somewhat disconnected to me, not tied in with the rest of it. I'd probably concentrate only on the Later-part because that is where all the emotion seems to reside.

Dead Weight
As with the poem Feeding Time, this feels a bit too literal and just stating what happens instead of dwelling deep in the emotions or showing them. I'd suggest trying to find imagery to describe and illustrate all this. How is the cheating person to be described when he means nothing. A shadow to be turned away from? How did the lying made the 'I' in the poem feel? And so forth.

Winter Trees
I love the imagery in this poem. The first two lines seem to fall a little short from the rest of the poems, though:
quote:

Everything is so clear in winter
Thats why I love it so much

'Everything is so' is a little bland expression to use in poetry, imo. How about:
'Winter wreaths everything in clarity:
the reason for my love for it'
Either way, there's a little typo: 'Thats' -> 'That's'

Dying
quote:

Its just the transition that's troublesome

Mesuspects there's an apostrophe missing there -> 'It's'

quote:

So when Death stretches out her hand
Go willingly
And in a dignified fashion.

Just a suggestion, but I think here would be a fitting spot to add emphasis to the 'going' with some repetition:
'So when Death stretches out her hand
Go willingly
Go with dignity.'

Imo, the wording in 'And in a dignified fashion' feels a little cumbersome if you compare it to the other, quite simple lines in this poem.


Rest of the comments on details will be posted later.



Fleur Du Mal -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (11/16/2009 17:25:54)

OKies, part 2/2 on the critique, comments on the details continued

Pain and Pleasure
To me it was the last line that really made the poem interesting. I'm a little undecided here on whether I'd wish that last line to not be the last, but rather an opening to a second stanza, or whether this is best just as it is, leaving me reflecting on where I myself heard that before... Either way, this poem, stopped me to think.

Parted and Joined in Poppies
There are these two lines of fluid imagery:
quote:

Where snakes wind
And wolves howl to herald arrivals

that I want to point out to note that they raised this piece to another level in my opinion. And since you are good with this kind of portrayal, I'd wish for more lines of imagery, all over your poetry, not necessarily in this poem or only in this poem.

Gods of Today
Okies, only my personal preference, but I'd actually separate the lists into stanzas and drop the numbers. Imo, the repetition when you go over the items again is clear enough and the numbering feels unneeded. I don't think that stressing that one is going over a list in a poem with numbers brings anything extra. It'd be a different story if the cardinal numbers were used for rhythm, rhyming, including syllables to a line, etc. Anyways, my suggestion would shift the poem to look like this ->
quote:

Vapid Celebs.
Stoned Musicians.
Fast Cars.
Money.

You got it all, you're a modern god.
You got some, you're a demigod or a suckup.
You got none, you're dirt.
The old gods have fallen,
Toppled from Heaven, Nirvana or Olympus by their.....children.

I do not worship any

Vapid celebs are surplus to requirements.
Stoned musicians make bad music.
Fast cars are a frivolity.
Money is a necessity.

Like I said, the old gods have fallen
Replaced by ones that show how shallow we are, mean less and are needed more.
So that's ok, because I never believed in them anyway.

Yeah, another one of my nitpickerish comments; totally up to you to decide.

Funeral
quote:

We thought, Mama, we're meant for the flies.

My Chemical Romance – reference?

I like the slow pace in the beginning, I think it adds a rhythm not unlike a funeral march to it. The twist in the middle of the poem turns it suddenly into horror, and since I'm biased for gothic horror, I like it quite a lot. However, I felt that the ending could be even more scarier or have more description to really lock into the helplessness and to bring in the chills. For example, there could be sights of dirt falling over the persona and surrounding her in cold or airless embrace, etc. Just an idea.

Heartache
quote:

Its telling me to leave, get someone new.

Just lil' typo: 'It's'

quote:

So you still stare through me or past me.

My favourite line in the poem: 'past me or through me,' giving two options equally negligent and hurtful. Actually, to me this line felt more effective emotionally than the flat out statement of heart being ripped. Go figure.

Puddles
Heh, this one made me smile. Simple and cute and no doubt some of it's uplifting quality derives from the company it's keeping with your darker poetry.

There's also a dark component into this as well, as isn't the smiling puddle always only a reflection. So the persona in the poem can also be seen being very lonely. Just something that crossed my mind.

Funeral for a Friend
I absolutely love this one in all it's forlorn love, regret, false self-accusations, and utter regret of staying silent. The style of writing feels very prose-like, but somehow the rhythm of the words make it work as a poem, imo.
I have just one suggestion:
quote:

Returning, we got jumped. A coarse hand pressed over my mouth and a gun pressed to my temple

This is quite a long line, and I think it might actually flow better a little broken, without repeating the verb 'pressed' ->
'Returning, we got jumped. A coarse hand pressed over my mouth and a gun to my temple '
Your call, as always!

Alone
There's so much behind these lines that don't show to those who don't readily recognise themselves in here. So, I'd guess this is the type of poem that doesn't open up enough, give and illustrate the situation enough for those who haven't been there (for example, I could think of a few different meanings to 'leaving' so I'm not actually able to focus into one and that makes the poem feel a little diluted to me). And I guess for those who have been there it speaks loudly enough already.


Jealousy
quote:

A silver stream that hid the rotteness beneath

quote:

Jealousy coiling through like a wraith

My spellchecker claims that 'rottenness' should have two n's. It has erred before, though.... Aside that, once again, I love the imagery on these two lines.

Aftermath
This poem paints a pretty effective picture of any war-ravaged field filled with piles of corpses. I like how you have shifted the focus from the corpses themselves to the phenomena that surrounds them. The only thing I can't help myself nitpicking about would be the contradiction I'm fooled to think there is in these two lines:
quote:

Under a midnight sun
Under a starless sky

Of course, a sky with midnight sun would be starless. So there isn't an actual contradiction. However, to me a starless sky represents darkness, bleakness, and midnight sun represents light and glow. Thus, I imagine there being a contradiction. My suggestion would be to change the other line to something like 'Under a washed-out sky,' but this is yet again just a suggestion.

Rescue Me
A very heartfelt poem, the occasional rhymes add to the appeal, imo. Especically when applied into a simple line like this:
quote:

Kiss me, keep me?


Compared to the other lines, this one felt a little run-on-y, imho:
quote:

Reach down and grab me from this hole, before I go too deep and die down here, in the smoke and fumes?

My simple suggestion would be to split it onto two lines, just so as it wouldn't overwhelm the poem with its sheer length->
'Reach down and grab me from this hole,
before I go too deep and die down here, in the smoke and fumes? '

So Slow
Hmm, any reason why the first 'So slow' isn't on a line of its own to further slow the rhythm down?

Door to the Mind
quote:

My memories, a forest,
I can't see the forest for the wolves.

Imo, it feels like there would be a transition missing here. From the wish to see it all, the memories like a forest, we are all of the sudden encountered wolves. So, I'm expecting some contrasting or other form of transition for the wish to the what is hindering the wish to be fulfilled. For example:
'My memories, a forest.
Yet I can't see the forest for the wolves.'
or
'My memories, a forest,
a forest I can't see for the wolves'

The latter might not seem like that much of a difference, but actually it defines the forest further now, imo, as opposed to telling there's a forest – full stop – I can't see the forest. If I'm making any sense here. Which I'm probably not. Anyways, I love the idea of walking amidst the forest of memories and yet unable to see anything because of the monsters in there.

Mask
quote:

We all have to gaze on the rotteness at some point.
Be consumed by it.

Any particular reason this is 'Be' and not 'Become.' I'm imagining this as if it were a slow, advancing process, and thus suggesting the word 'Become.'

Losing You
Ugh, this one really hit home. I love all that waving between decisions and letting go, how the thoughts build and arch from the beginning to the conclusion in the end. This is simply beautiful. Can't even think about anything to nitpick about. =P

Scars of the Past
Very effective, though I started to wonder how could the chocolate eyes be like knives if the person didn't even know about the heart beating for them:
quote:

My torn heart throbs for you
And you will never know.

?

Monotonous Life
In case you didn't know, my sense of humour works in funny ways sometimes. I enjoyed the litany of 'Great Memories' all the way up to 'Six feet under'. I found it hilarious, actually, a display of absurdity and black comedy. Not necessarily how you meant it to be, but that's how I read it.

Now, here come my personal preferences into play yet again: I'd actually would have preferred a more objective ending, without the last stanzas about 'you rebelled and then conformed.' This is simple because it' s a recurrent theme and I've encountered it maybe too many a times. So I'd rather have had the poem without the underlining in the end. Just my opinion, though.

Seasons
quote:

Eager to each the Sea, their mother; they shed gifts along the way.

Just a typo: 'reach'

Otherwise, beautiful imagery, each line very much alive. =)

Dark Angel
Once again, what is there left for me besides complimenting the splendid imagery here, going hand in hand with the sensuality. The ending line is splendid as well, 'with you and for you.'

Bedtime Story
I love the mood in this one. You painted the scene into my mind like the grandma in the poem painted the stories. An image of past and fragile memories I could easily relate to.

Loup-Garou
This poem has rich imagery on the transformation, actually such depth of imagery I was missing and suggesting for you to add in your earlier poems that focused on vampires.

Anyways, in addition to the imagery I think there's quite an effective rhythm in this piece: short lines with rhythmic pauses created with commas. =)


OK, I hope some of my butchering is useful to you. I also hope that I didn't offend you with my poking about the poems, and poetry can sometimes be pretty personal. I'm not questioning or judging the thoughts or emotions behind any of them. (And I'm most certainly not put off because of any of the contents.) When I say something along the lines that 'I didn't get this' I'm merely pointing out that as a reader I might have needed more clues to be able to attach myself to the poem. Pretty much the same comment I go around with when I'm commenting on prose that I think needs more description for the reader to see and feel enough to become immersed.

And just to make myself an epitome of a criiquer who goes on repeating stuff, I'll say once more that you are very good with imagery when you take a dive for it!

WriteOn! =)



Helixi -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (11/22/2009 16:45:46)

I apologise for taking so long to reply to this critique. Reply to part 1.


  • Artist: Suggestion taken.
  • Roses: Suggestion taken, colour changed to white.
  • Child: Lengthened the end line to make it more like a haiku. Did I succeed?
  • Son Of Death: Any suggestions? I've been working on it for months.
  • Death's Queen, Death's Slave: Suggestions taken.
  • The Turning: Now, that's just nitpicky. I'll leave it as it is, I think.
  • Immortal's Death: Death's and Day's.
  • Wounds: Reference to the song Numb. Any further suggestions for this poem?
  • Isolation: Fix'd.
  • Blood Sings and Music: These two would fit well together as one poem, imo. What do you think?
  • Night Terror: I confess, I have no idea what to do with this poem.
  • Feeding Time: Intensely personal poem. I'm not changing this at all. People will just have to deal with the lack of depth.
  • My First Heartbreak: I have toyed with the idea of chopping this poem and you have told me what I already knew; that the first half is unnecessary. Many thanks.
  • Dead Weight: See Feeding Time.
  • Winter Trees: Your suggestion and several others didn't fit, so I'll leave it the way it is. Typo fixed.
  • Dying: Typo fixed. Also changed the last line and added some more lines to the end.



Helixi -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (11/22/2009 17:35:45)

I apologise for taking so long to reply to this critique :( Reply to part 2.


  • Pain and Pleasure: Thank you, I think.
  • Parted and Joined in Poppies: Again, thank you. I'll try to add this type of imagery to my future poems.
  • Gods Of Today: Numbers removed, stanzas split but differently to your suggestion.
  • Funeral: Yep, reference. I think it comes to a natural stop after that line, so I doubt I will add to it.
  • Heartache: Yay. :) Typo fixed.
  • Puddles: I can be funny and uplifting! Honest!
  • Funeral For A Friend: Second 'pressed' removed.
  • Alone: I'm not sure if this is a criticism or not. So I'll leave it as it is.
  • Jealousy: My spellchecker claims one 'n'. So I'll leave it as it is.
  • Aftermath: Changed "starless" to "barren".
  • Rescue Me: Suggestion taken. Second part split again.
  • So Slow: There's no reason why it isn't split. Why not? Suggestion taken.
  • Door to the Mind: Second suggestion taken. Also applied to rivers/bodies line at the end of the poem.
  • Mask: It is now 'become'. Better?
  • Losing You: Thank you.
  • Scars: The person in the poem still loves someone who broke her heart, though they don't know this.
  • Monotonous Life: Last part removed, some small updates of my own added.
  • Seasons: Typo fixed.
  • Dark Angel: Thanks.
  • Bedtime Story: Thanks again.
  • Loup-Garou: I decided to move from my normal domain of vampires to the unknown region of werewolves. Judging by your comments, I'm guessing I did passably well. :)




Fleur Du Mal -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (12/7/2009 17:49:39)

1)
quote:

Child: Lengthened the end line to make it more like a haiku. Did I succeed?

It was a beautiful poem to begin with. Now even more dreamy to me. =)
2)
quote:

Son Of Death: Any suggestions? I've been working on it for months.

It is a little hard for me to suggest much here as I do not know the story. Maybe you could add a few lines why the Son of Death was crying to his father, or at what occasion he was doing that. Also, it might be interesting to see the developement arc from him crying to him smiling with the blood running down his face. Maybe adding these things might elaborate the story further.
3)
quote:

Wounds: Reference to the song Numb. Any further suggestions for this poem?

I'll be coming back for this after I've listened the song a few times.
4)
quote:

Blood Sings and Music: These two would fit well together as one poem, imo. What do you think?

Actually, that's a great idea! I'm sure they'll blend in purrfectly. =)
5)
quote:

Night Terror: I confess, I have no idea what to do with this poem .

Hmm, since I complained about the fifth line being a little off with the beginning, I'd suggest some cutting/rewording, for example:
quote:

I go to my lover but find him wrapped in all manner of things

-> 'I go to my lover; he's wrapped in all manner of things'
This is just simply making the line shorter. (Not sure if the word 'all' could be dropped as well or would it change the meaning too much)
6)
quote:

Mask: It is now 'become'. Better?

Imo, it makes more sense with 'become' so I'd definitely say it's better. =)



Helixi -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (12/25/2009 0:35:14)


  • Son Of Death: Added a small line in the middle. It's not finished, but it's a start.
  • Blood Sings/Music: Merged, titled Music.
  • Night Terror: Changed the wording and the rythm, though it still isn't right.



Helixi -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (1/9/2010 6:36:12)

Added a new poem, The Girl Who Couldn't Fly. Enjoy :)



.Discipline -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (5/10/2010 15:45:08)

I love your new poem. The way you take something so seemingly normal like a girl being unable to fly, and then create a story that makes us feel sad that she is a normal girl really touches me. It's like once you taste being supreme, normality is sad.

However, the use of 'they' is quite odd, because you don't say who it is, referring, therefore, to everybody. That is what makes it transferable to happiness and sadness in real life, and I love you for making that topic alive. It's true, you're happier to have been poor and miserable, and then gain, than to be great and powerful, and then lose.



Helixi -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (10/4/2010 15:34:22)

I have been working on a few ideas for a while now, Full Moon Over France, which I hope will be a WW2 poem to complement Blood and Tears, and Masochist, which describes someone I know very well almost perfectly. Hopefully I will update my thread soon with new poem(s). :D



Helixi -> RE: Comments and Criticism: A Collection of Dark Verse (1/8/2012 10:22:38)

Important note


I have decided to leave my old poetry collection on the forums for people to read. I hate them, personally. I hate what I was like when I wrote them and I felt physically sick reading through them again, all these years later. However, I want people to see my progression as a writer and poet. I also want to see that myself and know that I am a better, happier, safer person than in the past.

I will not updating poetry to this Collection. If you read them and decide to comment, please keep in mind that I was a fragile and depressed young girl and, yes, I self-harmed often. I am not proud of that fact.

I will not tolerate comments such as 'lol, emo crap' and similar. These are intensely personal to me, whether I like that fact or not, and people that laugh at self-harm are people I do not get along with. Bear that in mind if you decide to post. ~Helixi



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