RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (Full Version)

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SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/15/2010 8:41:40)

I think MWP will always be more effective than the Guard tower , when talking about effect per resource spent.

Which leads to the consideration of the value of Estates.

Estates generate
1/ Z-tokens.
2/ Gold
3/ Experience
4/ and Time.

In purely Z-Token terms the more the original house cost, the better the total Z-Token return will be. You will also gain Z-tokens, Gold and Exp when fighting off the villains raiding your buildings.

But there are other considerations.
With the MWP able to create Experience and Gold for your characters during Wars, they are well worth having.

Along with the benefit of having extra Experience and Gold the MWP also generates Time.

How?

You no longer have to spend so much Time farming to gain the Exp and Gold you need to Level your character, so you have more Time to do the Event Quests and Wars etc. [:D]



Nessa Ellensse -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/24/2010 16:08:25)

Has anyone thought of Holiday themed reasourse producers only the ones that I can think of would be mostly food

Snuggle Fest Chocolate shop food (possinly a little mana?)

Grenwog festival: egg hunt forrest food/wood?

Mogloween trick - or treat food and stone (in the book Charles Shultz wrote for Halloween Charlie Brown got a rock when he went trick or treating with the others)

Frostvale Frostavle Tree (food, with small amounts of mana and wood)


Edit: This is something that would come back every time the holiday did the same way blade henge, albuman staff, pumpkin patch ect do



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/24/2010 16:10:54)

I don't really think we need MORE stuff going rare, though something like a clan resource production would be good.



SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/24/2010 17:23:19)

That is an interesting concept 137ben.
How about these?

Lucian Solari Generator for Energy.
Dynami Electro Generator for Energy.
Geoto Geyser for Energy. Or maybe Stone Production from a Geoto Earth Elemental.
Nautica Fishfarm or Seaweed Garden for Food.
Nocturu Mushroom Garden for Food.
Igneus Lava Pit for Energy or Stone.
Glacius Glacier for Stone production?
Aerodu Windmill for Energy.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/24/2010 17:29:29)

Some of them could give multiple resources, just less of each.
Geoto could give both stone and food, not sure where you got it giving energy from.
Nautica can give both food and energy (hydroelectric power plants).
Glacius...I am having a hard time figuring out what it should be. Stone fits with the frostvale houses, which also give stone, but other than that I am not sure.



afterlifex -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/24/2010 17:30:27)

maybe wood for Geoto

edit: would be interesting to see how clans change from something of this nature.



SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/24/2010 17:38:35)

Glaciers carve stone from the Earth. Although the process is a little bit slow in reality...[:D] but this is fantasy so the power of Glaciar can speed things up.
Geysers produce hot water/steam, enough to power a generator for Geoto?



Dwelling Dragonlord -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/25/2010 4:45:50)

@SIGMUND: I always imagined the Nocturu to have a shrine/chapel, because Seeminly evil, the nocturu are the clan who pray the most.

By the way, I have this design for a light mana collector.

quote:

Light Mana Collector
Element:Light
lvl 50
Worker:Light Bringer (level-scaled)
App: Circle of Stones with light spiralling above it.
Function:Produces Energy.
Upgrade costs:
lvl 1 to 2: Food:0, Wood:0, Stone:50, Energy:90
lvl 2 to 3: Food:0, Wood:25, Stone:75, Energy:150
lvl 3 to 4: Food:0, Wood:25, Stone:75, Energy:200
lvl 4 to 5: Food:0, Wood:75, Stone:195, Energy:295
lvl 5 to 6: Food:0, Wood:75, Stone:245, Energy:295
lvl 6 to 7: Food:40, Wood:145, Stone:285, Energy:390
lvl 7 to 8: Food:75, Wood:195, Stone:345, Energy:445
lvl 8 to 9: Food:110, Wood:265, Stone:415, Energy:540
lvl 9 to 10: Food:165, Wood:365, Stone:485, Energy:650
Production:
Energy:2/3/5/6/8/9/11/13/15/18
Descr: The plans for this light mana collector were discovered in a library of an abandoned temple of the Light Lord by Dragoncommander Azer.
Every building lvl makes the light bigger.
price:400z
sb:200z



Thylek Shran -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/28/2010 14:57:37)

Hi fellow players,

I made a calculator for the house ressources.


Main features:

- can handle up to 5 characters
- shows how much days or hours are left until storage is full
- shows how you must balance the ressources to reduce and optimize fill time


Requirements:

- PC or Mac
- Microsoft Office with Excel or OpenOffice


Screenshot

Download

Enter the download URL directly into your browser if you get a 404 error: 
http://Antares01.funpic.de/AQ/AQ_House_Ressource_Calculator.xls



I had made an own thread for that but im not allowed to do so. But im allowed to post it here.
The files are now on a new server which hopefully will make less problems.



SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/28/2010 17:46:28)

I would suggest not using that link.

It might have more than just funny messages attached.

It is just simple Math to work out how long it will take to fill your house resources

For two fully upgraded store buildings the total is 28000.
Divide that by how many resources you produce each hour.
That will give you an estimate.
Which will only be accurate if you have no attacks against your Estate resource producers.

Then you will also lose a few resources by trading to balance the slower resource production and the faster production.
So add a few more hours to that total. Depending on how efficiently you can trade. [8|]



Thylek Shran -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/28/2010 18:46:41)

Please enter the URL directly into your browser: 

http://Antares01.funpic.de/AQ/AQ_House_Ressource_Calculator.xls


The 404 error message is a standard and randomized error message from the Angelfire (Lycos) server.
They also have a pretty young community at Angelfire so thats why they make the jokes i guess.
The 404 site appears when you cant connect to the URL or the server cant find the site.
It also get activated by typos but that isnt the problem in this case here. Technically its a redirection and
the 404 site is normally stored in the main directory of a server or subdirectoy (account).
Its a standard website called "404Error.htm" for example. It can contain every html content and isnt
more dangerous than other websites. Im sorry that you get puzzled or scared by it.

If you want to know more details check the Wikipedia for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_rot


@Sigmund

You dont have to download the calculator and so nobody has to do. I just want to share my work cause
I think its helpfully for other players too. There really isnt a reason to be paranoid its all ok with the file.
Alot computers have problems with the Angelfire server and i dont know exactly why. For example computers
from Great Britain have alot problems with it. Maybe its a browser problem or the government is censoring
some sites. That would be the worst scenario and i hope its not the reason.



SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (4/29/2010 7:59:17)

Sorry Ronin Darkwalker I did not mean to imply anything against you personally.

As a quick guide:~

An Estate producing 100 resources per hour with no attacks:-
With 2 Storage buildings at level 15 gives 28000 resources which = 280 hours
= 11 days 16 hours to full resources.

With 1 storage building at level 15 gives 16000 resources which = 160 hours
= 6 days 16 hours to full resources.

With no storage building gives 4000 resources which = 40 hours
= 1 day 16 hours to full resources.

An Estate producing 90 resources per hour with no attacks:-
With 2 Storage buildings at level 15 gives 28000 resources which = 312 hours
= 13 days to full resources.

With 1 storage building at level 15 gives 16000 resources which = 178 hours
= 7 days 10 hours to full resources.

With no storage building gives 4000 resources which = 45 hours
= 1 day 21 hours to full resources.

An Estate producing 80 resources per hour with no attacks:-
With 2 Storage buildings at level 15 gives 28000 resources which = 350 hours
= 14 days 14 hours to full resources.

With 1 storage building at level 15 gives 16000 resources which = 200 hours
= 8 days 8 hours to full resources.

With no storage building gives 4000 resources which = 50 hours
= 2 day 2 hours to full resources.

These times will increase if your resources producers are attacked and if your resource trading is not optimal.[:D]



Kaelin -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (5/19/2010 21:07:10)

Myth: Using the Mega World Portal and sending half armies with 8 reputation is better (more efficient) than sending full armies with 11 reputation.

I went out to test this very myth in a recent war.

I collected the data using the two different setups. I used the same world (Kairula), the same estate (Darkovia), the same character (my main), at the same level (131) throughout.

The data! (scroll down to Resources.xls and click "Download" right below it)

I calculated the XP earned per resource spent on each wave. Considering 11 reputation using full armies uses five times the resources, it is important that a comparison takes this matter into account to correctly measure efficiency.

The 8-reputation half-army option (n = 49 waves) has an average of about 10.207 XP per resource, with a standard deviation of 2.840 XP per resource.
The 11-reputation full-army option (n = 46 waves) has an average of about 7.992 XP per resource, with a standard deviation of 2.912 XP per resource.

Captain has affirmed that the rewards from each wave fit a normal distribution, so I will assume this claim to be true. Since rewards fit a normal distribution, so should XP per resource.

The resulting p-value from a one-tailed t-test (unequal variance) is ~0.00015. To have evidence of a difference, a person normally looks for p < 0.05. As such, we have very strong evidence that that sending half armies with 8 reputation is more efficient than sending full armies with 11 reputation.

Myth Confirmed



krazy demon child -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (5/19/2010 21:27:00)

That's kind of been common knowledge around here Kaelin, but thank you for taking the time and getting the hard numbers to prove it without a shadow of a doubt!



SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (5/20/2010 2:31:29)

I believe this is balanced though.
Because using half armies requires more time. More time to press the buttons required to send the armies.
Therefore you get less time to actually fight in the war so you cannot gain experience tokens and gold that way.

Once you finish using your Estate resources you can of course take part in the event just like people using the Full Army Rep 11 option.[:D]




Kaelin -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (5/20/2010 3:29:02)

Players are more or less getting an extra 1700 XP for each 11 rep full army wave they break into five 8 rep half army waves (there is a lot of uncertainty about the exact number, but it is probably within a few hundred of it). Even for fairly high-level players, this is still probably a profitable trade-off. Also, it is five times as resource-intensive for the server, and while MWP waves are probably a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, it can't be a good thing to encourage players to demand more server resources. And sending waves in this manner gets back into the territory where improving a "stat" harms the player, and this type of outcome is hostile to newbie players (leaving them ignorant is one thing, but misleading them is another). Also, if players have already hit any daily caps of interest, they aren't going to care how long the extra clicking takes.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (5/20/2010 16:01:14)

I honestly think that the efficiency should be the same regardless of rep. Then you have the choice to customize things to the desired standard deviation for your personal tastes. The same way as half armies is the same efficiency as full armies.



Nessa Ellensse -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (8/13/2010 23:00:28)

Kaelin: personally I'm less conserned with the amound of XP than I am total number of wins. I use army wins to help win the war faster



Finally we've had a long enough break between wars that Willow's Darkovia estate is nearly full and Nessa's Frostvale estate is nto far behind



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (8/14/2010 11:05:14)

The only reason I care about army wins is if the players can have some impact on the out-come of the war, which is very rare in AQ.



brianspenceni -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (8/14/2010 12:49:48)

If I'm understanding this right, is it still the case that a rep of 8 sending 1/2 armies is the most efficient method of getting xp and battle wins? (Taking the very small time-taken to send each wave out of the equation.

If true, seems harsh that we're being penalised for having great reputations? Could someone confirm this, before I have all the aliens in trescol and Kairula hating me.

Edit: just read thread 3 - those results are crazy. I wonder, has anyone tried rep 6 (the average) as perhaps the max returns are seen at the middle/average rep (i.e. 1 and 11 rep have equal returns, 8 and 3 have equal returns great than the extremes of 1 and 11, with 7 and 5 rep surpassing 8 and 3, and 6 being the pinnacle) - which seems logical, if 11 isn't best.



afterlifex -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (8/14/2010 13:35:28)

brianspenceni
I wouldn't say "penalised" for higher rep it is just that higher rep also costs more resources. So while you can get higher numbers with better rep you aren't guaranteed it(the odds are even against doing better) so you could be paying more for the same amount. Lower rep(lower cost) allows for a "tighter grouping" and wins on the average.



Savage Fred -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (8/14/2010 20:51:08)

@afterlifex I can see what you're saying, but it still seems like semantics to me. Getting a higher reputation takes more time, more effort, and should be rewarded. The higher your rep, the more efficient battles should be. So while you may not categorize it as a penalty, I agree with brianspenceni that it seems that way to me



SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (8/15/2010 5:13:22)

This is how I see things.

The problem is not the reputation but the size of the army that reputation demands.....
A General has to command hundreds or thousands of warriors.
A Captain can choose his small group of elite fighters.

A large army is cumbersome and difficult to supply with resources. It also requires an enemy to gather a force sufficient to face it...
otherwise the enemy would stand no chance of winning. So why would the enemy fight at all?

A small army is like a commando team. They require less resources to support them and can fight smaller target groups.
This makes them more efficient than larger armies.





Kaelin -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (8/15/2010 5:47:37)

Nessa Ellensse: I haven't checked "Wins" carefully, but the problem that occurs for XP seems to occur for Wins as well.

SIGMUND: The practicality of large armies v/ small squads depends on the battlefield. When dealing with a force that has to spread itself thin to hold many areas or travel though areas low-visibility, small groups can use their lack of visibility to sabotage and ambush the opposing force. In more conventional "invasion" warfare, it is more effective to attack in large groups so you can exploit a firepower advantage. The nature of AQ wars seems to follow the latter more than the former, so it'd perhaps be good if estates rewarded players accordingly -- or failing that, at least not penalize them for it.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (8/15/2010 10:54:31)

quote:

@afterlifex I can see what you're saying, but it still seems like semantics to me. Getting a higher reputation takes more time, more effort, and should be rewarded. The higher your rep, the more efficient battles should be. So while you may not categorize it as a penalty, I agree with brianspenceni that it seems that way to me


Getting from 8 rep to 11 rep takes 3 battles, or less if you encounter the creature you are trying to befriend. It can take under 10 minutes to get from 8 rep to 11 rep. Instead of giving huge rewards for those 3 battles, I think efficiency should remain the SAME, you would just have a choice about standard deviation.



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