RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion

RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (Full Version)

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brianspenceni -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/22/2011 16:13:48)
Two people have reporting higher stats for rep 7, and unless you come back to me with a comparison of two means or another statistical signifcance test, it's just anecdotal at this stage. What was fact for me was that across my 5 characters with full estates and rep 8 half armies, in the first wave of attacks all 5 of my estates produced about 50 less wins than one of the people who was fighting off rep 7 (in one of the recent wars - http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=18461085 ). That convinced me to at least give it a whirl before making a final decision. Edit: just checked Sigmund, and in the Frostval 2010 battles (i.e. the war I refer to above) I slightly outperformed you. If afterlifex was clearly outperforming me at the start of the war (I assume he sent waves on the first day, but not after that) then he was likely to be outperforming you too. Just checked and all 5 of my characters have similar war counts to you in that war, so unless afterlifex was exceptionally lucky there is proof that rep 7 could be as effective, if not more so that 1/2 rep 8s. Perhaps we shouldn't give black and white answers without definitive proof?

krazy demon child -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/22/2011 18:25:36)
I switched from rep 8 to rep 7 a few wars ago and the only difference I've seen thus far is that it's faster to send my armies now. Other than that they seem to be equal in terms of wins and rewards.

Isphus -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/22/2011 23:16:20)
Whart's the difference (in effectiveness) between half and full armies?

Rai Spellfang -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/22/2011 23:31:19)
In terms of effectiveness? There really isn't much of a difference between half waves and full waves. It's simply that sending full waves gives you fewer total attempts, which can wind up randomly giving you significantly more or significantly less than the average amount. People send half waves to minimize the standard deviation. It's the same sort of concept behind why most people prefer attacks with two or more hits to attacks with only one hit, even if they both have the exact same average damage :p

brianspenceni -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/23/2011 7:42:17)
I personally suspect that some of the difference between half and full armies has to be rounding of victories e.g. With a half army and a full army, if both have a minimum value of 1, then if you do hit the minimum with either then the value for two halves is two but for one full army it's one.

SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/26/2011 14:23:24)
Okay we have a War this weekend, so let us compare results brianspencini, Nessa, magicdog, Isphus, krazy demon child and any other interested parties. I willl only use Rep 8 half armies on my five characters. You can use Rep 7 full armies on your 5 characters? There will be some differences due to three of mine being level 115. But SIGMUND and VENESS are both level 136 so they will be directly comparable to your characters. If there are any level 115 characters out there with 28000 resources you can compare your results to LUCY, HERBERTUS and Nikita.

BexnDan -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/26/2011 17:07:32)
Why not do like I did in the last war (see previous page), and each person send say 90 waves of full army, rep 7, then 90 waves of half army, rep 8. Then you know you are comparing like with like. It's an easy experiment to do and the results are easy to interpret. If we try to compare across different characters then there are a lot of extra variables (eg how many times were your resource producers attacked, what level are you, how much resources are you using on guard tower, did you start as soon as the war began, did you fully use all your resources at the end of the war)

brianspenceni -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/26/2011 17:10:11)
That seems reasonable. Out of curiosity, how does your character's level affect results? I thought the three factors were rep, mwp level and amount of resources? Linear regression, anyone? Can I suggest that we all post outcomes after sending our 28k resources out? BTW I'm not bothered about gold, just wins.

etching -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/26/2011 17:46:26)
>Out of curiosity, how does your character's level affect results? I thought the three factors were rep, mwp level and amount of resources? >Can I suggest that we all post outcomes after sending our 28k resources out? BTW I'm not bothered about gold, just wins. Character level only affects the gold/xp rewards, not the war kills. Otherwise a level 130 character would have a significant advantage over a level 80-90 character. The gold/xp rewards go hand in hand with the war kills and your character level. And yeah, you get more gold at level 136 to compensate for the lack of XP. I agree, please post after your done (or edit your updated post). And include the character level please. Makes the thread rather untidy with a ton of intermediate posts, IMHO...

trans205 -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/26/2011 19:26:28)
With 28000 resources and rep 8 half armies, I'm getting around 1100-1150 on first day resource dumps. I'll see what I can get with rep 7 full.

brianspenceni -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/27/2011 16:04:10)
Here are the results of my 5 level 136 Zagorakis characters, using their full estate resources (28,000 per character). MWP rep is 7 for all 5. Arch Duke Gold: 133,190 Wins: 1,204 Arch Duchess Gold: 132,480 Wins: 1,204 Arch Enchantress Gold: 130,140 Wins: 1,178 Archon Gold: 123,030 Wins: 1,124 Arch Sorceress Gold: 127,890 Wins: 1,169 Hence, the average over 5 level 136 characters, at rep 7 with full resources is 129,346 gold and 1,176 wins - standard deviation is 4,100 gold and 33 wins. If that is remotely close to rep 8 1/2 armies then I'm sticking with rep 7 - it is soooooooo much quicker!

BexnDan -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/27/2011 17:47:04)
I sent 90 waves at rep 8 half armies, and 90 waves at rep 7 full army (total cost of 27,000 resources) rep 7 full: 558 wins (139090 XP, 47710 gold) rep 8 half: 558 wins (139530 XP, 47860 gold)

Bizarro Sephiroth -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/27/2011 18:45:29)
So rep 8 1/2 armies gave me 1152 army wins prolly going to switch to 7 full Edit: as of 12pm server time jan 30th my estate is at 1490 wins at 127 resources regained per hour at rep 8 1/2 armies the entire time

brianspenceni -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/27/2011 19:28:32)
Was curious, based on my resource gains rate and my wins per wave (c.6.32, costing 150 resources for rep 7 and rep 8 1/2 armies) to see how my earlier posted figures should change over time. For the record, my main character gains 135 resources/hour meaning I should on average gain 135/1506.32=5.69 wins/hour and for my other four characters (who have higher level guard towers) it's 121/1506.32=5.1 wins/hour. Essentially, to compare the number of wins my characters are capable of against other people at a point in time, take how long after my post they post their figures and add 1,176 + hourseither 5.69 or 5.1 to make it like for like. One day from my initial post, based on my initial rates, my average should have increased to about 1,300 (i.e. 1,176 + 24either 5.69 or 5.1).

afterlifex -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/27/2011 21:27:56)
well since we have a "few" rep 7 lvl 136 numbers i guess i will do rep 8, 1/2 armies instead. I will be back with kills & gold. edit: lvl 136 27,600 of 28,000 resources used 130,297 gold 1,171 kills (gold may be a bit off thou(by a few hundred..as I am stupid)

SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/27/2011 21:59:28)
So far 6.09 is the average from SIGMUND. But he has only done 66 Rep 8 Half Army missions. So he is below your average brianspencini. However that may change? Edit: 28000 resources breaks down to 186 repeats for either Rep 8 Half Armies or Rep 7 Full Armies After 186 battles SIGMUND had 1159 Army wins and 125780 gold. The average 6.23 army wins giving 676.24 gold. So still slightly lower than your average brianspecini. But improved from my first 66 battles. Veness was at 1210 after 186 battles. With an average of 6.50 army wins I don't think the difference is statistically significant even though the numbers are different, but I'm not going to work it out. Currently my characters stand like this. Sigmund http://guardian.battleon.com/Build30/charview.asp?temp=27082669 Veness http://guardian.battleon.com/Build30/charview.asp?temp=27082768 Herbertus http://aq.battleon.com/build30/charview.asp?temp=27082813 Lucy http://aq.battleon.com/build30/charview.asp?temp=27082708 Nikita http://guardian.battleon.com/Build30/charview.asp?temp=38185097 None of my estates should be attacked because I haz bazillions of guards......[:D]

Prosperine -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/28/2011 2:45:32)
rep 7 full armies, 6,200 resources in each category = ~~979~~ ~~1084~~ 1218 army wins.. ~~that's gonna go up abit~~ :D

krazy demon child -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/29/2011 0:11:42)
I got 127,530 gold and 1160 wins using rep 7 full armies. From past experience and the data that we are seeing I can say without a doubt that there is no difference between rep 8 half armies and rep 7 full armies other than speed.

brianspenceni -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/30/2011 9:57:01)
As per Etching's advice, gonna try to keep my posts tidy! However, I am keeping my initial wins, and subsequent wins separate within this post for the reasons discussed below - please note that my character arch duke never loses resources due to attacks but to differing degrees my other characters do. Here are the results of my 5 level 136 Zagorakis characters on 27th Jan at 4pm EST, using their full estate resources (28,000 per character). MWP rep is 7 for all 5. Arch Duke Gold: 133,190 Wins: 1,204 Arch Duchess Gold: 132,480 Wins: 1,204 Arch Enchantress Gold: 130,140 Wins: 1,178 Archon Gold: 123,030 Wins: 1,124 Arch Sorceress Gold: 127,890 Wins: 1,169 Hence, the average over 5 level 136 characters, at rep 7 with full resources is 129,346 gold and 1,176 wins - standard deviation is 4,100 gold and 33 wins. If that is remotely close to rep 8 1/2 armies then I'm sticking with rep 7 - it is soooooooo much quicker! Results clocked 7am, 29th Jan EST: Arch Duke Wins: 1,410 Arch Duchess Wins: 1,398 Arch Enchantress Wins: 1,360 Archon Wins: 1,292 Arch Sorceress Wins: 1,340 Average wins: 1,360 I actually think it's crucial to separately posting your initial 28k resources wins and intermediate stage wins. This is because all things are equal for those starting with 28k resources, but two other factors come into play after this - your resource gain rate and the number of times your estates gets attacked (i.e. what proportion of your available resources gained you retain - in other words net resources gained). In the face of it, the Arch Duke character seems to be outperforming my other characters, but that's not the case - he has more guards, but a lower level of guard tower meaning his net resources gained is substantially higher than my other 4 characters. If, at the end of the war, someone seems to lag or catch up, it may be because of this. If we make conclusions, I would prefer it to be based on all the facts. Edit @9.51am, 30th Jan EST: Arch Duke Wins: 1,574 Arch Duchess Wins: 1,526 Arch Enchantress Wins: 1,486 Archon Wins: 1,423 Arch Sorceress Wins: 1,492 Average wins: 1,500 Ended with a sum of 7,727 compared to e.g sigmund at 7,820 across 5 characters with full estates so minimal difference. My character most comparable to sigmunds (i.e. loads of guards) scored 1,625 which was 45 more than any of his characters. The conclusion is that rep 7 is as good (possibly identical to) rep 8 1/2 armies.

BexnDan -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/31/2011 5:54:12)
Well my character (who does not haz gazillions of guards like Sigmund and the Zagorakis) finished with 1510 wins after doing a mixture of half 8's and full 7's. I'm convinced that it makes no difference, which I suppose we shouldn't be surprised about because they both cost 150 resources. One point to consider especially for those with gazillions of guards is the guard tower level. I've been spying on your characters - I hope you don't mind [:D] ArchDuke Zagorakis - guard tower level 7 - uses 2 resources per hour - ie 150 altogether (the war was approx 75 hrs I think) The other Zagorakis - guard tower level 15 - use 16 resources per hour - ie 1200 altogether Sigmund's characters - guard tower level 12 - use 8 resources per hour - ie 600 altogether If none of you had any attacks then Sigmund's can send their armies 3 more times than the lesser Zagorakis, giving about 20 extra wins, and the ArchDuke can send another 4 waves on top of that, giving about another 25 wins. That probably explains why he had the most wins.

SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (1/31/2011 6:28:02)
I think the case is proved that there is no statistically significant difference between the two options we explored. Rep 7 Full armies is the fastest option for speedy delivery of wins . If you have time and you don't mind pressing lots of buttons you can use Rep 8 Half armies.

ants -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (2/9/2011 1:02:12)
will wars be the only thing we can use estates for? Maybe some ingame estate sort of quest that you can repeat once per week regardless of wars (Now that would be awesome!)

SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (2/10/2011 8:58:21)
It would be good to have something for the Estates to do between wars. But the rewards would pile up too quickly. Unless they were different to normal War rewards...??? This would change the nature of AQ from a single player bash-em and level up RPG. It would make the estates an essential part of playing the game, rather than just an additional thing to do. Anyway I have full resources again. So now we have Snugglefest and then ? Fixit week followed by a War, maybe.

Nessa Ellensse -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (2/10/2011 13:29:35)
You mean other than the Frostval estate's quest for the Reigndragon, it's an easy place to farm for XP but even that gets old after awhile

SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (3/8/2011 8:28:35)
Full Resources sometime past and the food is starting to rot...... It must be time for another War? or maybe an update? Come on Captain Rhubarb you know you want to....[;)]

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