RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (Full Version)

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goldslayer1 -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/30/2011 20:13:19)

hold on a sec. u guys are complaining about varium items.
one of the most not so powerfull items in the game right now are the beta items.
founders got their buff. now where is beta wep buffs?
when i bought beta weps it said that the beta weapons would be among the strongest of the weapons in ED
yet the now they have bazookas with +37 damage.
all the primaries lack about 5-6 stats points compared to the newer weapons (frostbane azrael and other frost weps, and charfades)
the gun only does +29 damage when and only has +17 on stat modifiers while there are around 8 guns that have +18 stat modifiers.
almost all the primaries are +29 damage when we now have +31 and +32
not to mention that the weps didn't come with a counter, example energy beta gun, physical beta zooka, and counters for the primaries, and since they didn't have this and they didn't update them yet.
the ones in a loss are also the ones who bought beta weps, because ED had assured people that beta weps would be among the stronger, yet u have a ton of lvl 31and lvl 32 weapons that are better.
TBH i feel like i got ripped off on the beta weps.

and im sure anyone else who has the beta weps can agree that they are now under powered compared to the top gear that has been release as of late.
so ED is beta weps still among the strongest weps in the game?
hell no



bighobbo -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/30/2011 20:20:36)

There is just no balance between the non-varium and varium gears released. Look at the Valentine Rares. Varium players get everything, from Aux (physical and energy), class specific weapons (physical and energy) with insane stats. What do non-varium get? Only a sword (energy). If EpicDuel is free to play, there should be more non-varium items released than varium. I'm not saying that varium gears should be weaker, I'm saying that there should be a balance between gears released for varium and non-varium. If varium players get complete set of gears, at least give us non-variums WEAKER complete set of gears too. It just disappoints me when varium players get complete sets of Auxes (physical and energy) AND class specific weapons (physical and energy) and we non-variums only get a sword (energy only). It's been happening a lot these days and it's so sad how they're treating non-varium players the way they do.



Larcell -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/30/2011 21:10:28)

You DONT have to buy varium to become stronger. You can DO surveys....might be lengthy, but 1250 varium can go a long way...



Deadly PoisoN -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/31/2011 0:34:00)

@Larcell,surveys are a WASTE of anyones time and no ads even give varium except for those ones in the US.Not everybody lives in america,pretty shocking ey?Iv'e rarely ever seen ads that give varium except for people that live in european countries mostly.And only the ads from the US seem to give enough point for you to claim varium.

@Turkish,thanks for admitting i'm right,if a player HAS to have a certain class in order to survive as a free player then there's something wrong.



orrthehunter -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/31/2011 0:50:59)

Well the game is still developing so they need all the money they can get for now before they can move on with the non-varium stuff. Not to mention if they plan to develop a storyline Quest (Cutscenes, NPC boss battles, maybe making choices to determine what will happen and who side your on in the story) I can see them adding more good non-varium items.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/31/2011 16:36:10)

i notice lots of players saying things about F2P's and im here to step up to bat on this. Im sure afew of you know me in game and those people know i fight dirty(praying for crits and stuns LOL)

i have a Non varium acc BH Mage and Merc and heres the kicker off all of that Mage 32 BH 26 Merc 17 can you guess which one has the best record..... If you picked merc your right but thats cus hes lv 17 so its irrelevant. Anyway i tested a theory a long time back i broke one rule of ED and ive quit so ill admit it i let someone else use my acc so i wouldnt be dummying(break one rule not to break another) a F2P mage with the strongest build i could manage i had the weaknesses of my alts build put into mine. And a Merc w/ Marine armor and the Chaos Clever. The first build wise was in my favor and i lost two out of three times.

To make that simple for everyone reading this teh Stat modifers on Varium gear F2P cant hold a candle to w/o rare gear and my only rare gear is actully the Carrier Zooka which still might be the best Phys F2P aux(since i still she it around it might be)

The problem with this is that F2P rares are few and far between if you dont belive me chekc the wiki there have been updates w/ only Rare Varium Gear(halloween F2Ps got i belive a gun) Charfade F2P's got a sword which multible of my Varium friends have admitted to buying to boot its lv 25 and pretty much worthless to a lv 32 TM like myself. now i will give you guys Christmas we got some good rares but 1/3 is still failing by math standards(and i belive that is the three latest set of rares)


Now onto to that The game needs money to devolpe i heard somewhere Frostbane had 2000 people buy it and thast 20 bucks or just frosty 20*2k is $40,000 from just one rare now think about all teh other Varium gear that was prolly bought over this time frame ED racked up some major dough so i dont think its ED needs money thats why there is always Varium gear.



Cinderella -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/31/2011 19:32:10)

I think TVTropes calls ED "Bribe your way to the top" rather than "pay to win".

I'm sure Nightwraith and Titan will take your concerns into consideration. We <3 our ftp-ers!



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/31/2011 22:02:43)

Only Nonvariums and smart VIPs use effective builds. Nuff said. [;)]



Deadly PoisoN -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (1/31/2011 23:51:31)

@ Cinderella,i know it seems like ever since i came to the ed general dis,all i seem to be doing is complaining.It might seem like i'm trolling and like i refuse to give the developers a shred of glory,but it isn't so.But iv'e been wanting to make a thread like this for a while,when winter cleavers went rare and i realized that my bounty has no hope now,this is when i boiled over.

Strangely enough,a year ago when AE bought this game i told someone on youtube that epicduel will be a game where whoever pays the most,will probably have the most power and that i'm not interested in such gameplay.My year old comments can still be found,back then i didn't even play.

I hate how i'm always right about things like these,it feels like my negative words have now come into effect,but i somehow feel it was inevitable.My bounty is currently lvl30 and when i go through the shops and i see the nice selection of lvl30 claws for varium i almost want to tear my hair out.Some of those don't even have to be varium,they would certainly help a free player though.

At lvl30 we get 2 kinds of wrist blades that are non varium,and frankly both have weak stat gain.Once again,that post nightwraith made,made my stomach turn,that's how uneasy i was reading it.It's sad to say that most of it wasn't even the truth,no counter argument is even needed,his words can be nullified if anyone cares to take a stroll through some epicduel shops.

What am i saying?Varium should=Non paying?Once again,no...This thread was just a cry for help.But look how long nightwraith took to throw a bone at the public,and it's not satisfying in the ''We aren't here to try and grab your money,we care about you''sense.How can someone say something like that when their actions portray the complete opposite,just how?And then goes on to say that if you still aren't convinced then you aren't free to voice your opinion on what you think.

This is why sadly this thread will disappear into the black abyss of other ''concerns/complaints'' threads that lead to nothing.It's frustrating,but we'll probably have to accept that then.Which once again is a very hard pill to swallow.



InTheSky -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 0:05:41)

Even if you have the best build possible as a non-varium you still won't win.

Like I said I've never lost to a Non-Varium. I usually end up winning with more than 60% of my health.

This counts for all 3 classes.



edwardvulture -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 0:43:40)

It takes real ski to win as a nonvarium. So if you want to show skill, do it!
This game is both the above title, which is interesting.



PD -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 0:45:52)

Of course this game is Free to play. However, it's highly advantageous (and expensive) to buy varium. To survive as a Non Varium in the higher levels, you'd need...

  • Best Build and Strategy
  • Best Equipment
  • Lots of time and dedication

    Most of the best Non Varium Equipment is rare. What's not rare simply cannot compete against what Varium players have (you'd fight someone with 50-60 more stat points than yourself) the best equipment. And a good chunk of the level 32 players happen to have varium, and have around 80-96 stat points from weapons. Only option to do is fight fire with fire, which means using the best non varium rares to combat the best varium rares. I've done the math, and you'd be losing out by 10-30 stat points, assuming you were able to even afford enhancements. It's still possible to win, but it will take some serious strategy to win.

    But yeah, it's still possible to survive as a free player, but it gets harder and harder as you progress At low levels, you can get away with all free player equips, but as time progresses, the difference becomes more and more apparent. Still, many have succeeded and resisted buying varium, either because they don't feel like it, can't buy it, or feel they could be much more resourceful by reaching the best possible state without the help of varium. They may not have 80-95% win ratio's, but for what they have, they are extremely skilled and efficient, and I commend the few Non Varium players who have made it to level 32 through all the pain and im-balance.



    • InTheSky -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 0:56:59)

    PD that makes no sense. This would mean you're assuming that the varium players have bad builds, since non-varium can somehow beat them with this "Hardcore strategy"

    It's almost like saying varium don't use strategy and only non varium players do, so that means they have a chance of winning?

    The person with the higher stat points win always. The gap is just to big.



    PD -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 1:15:46)

    No InTheSky, you completely mis-understood my post...

    Of course Varium people will have great strategies and builds. Nowhere in my post did I say that Varium players have no strategy, nor do they have bad builds. And 2ndly, yes, the Stat totals are pretty wide. However, if you had the best possible build with the best possible equipment for a free players, as I said, the difference can be 10-30 stat points, which rounded, is 2-7 levels. You're not going to notice the effects of 4 stat point difference, and you also need to be careful about investing HP due to agility. 8 HP is a pretty big difference, but that advantage can go away with 1st strike, which is roughly calculated, 100 stat points (I'll pm you the math behind this if you so desire). However, I will acknowledge that to have the best equipment, is not easy, and you would need to farm a lot because the best equipment will go away as they are rares. It's not easy, but it's not dreadfully hard either.

    And also, if the person with the higher stat totals always wins, then how is a Founder, who never got the founder armor, such as myself and others with my same situation able to still win against people who have the advantage by +30 stat points, and go first? (Base damages from weapons accounted for too). Simple - We used strategy to win despite the huge dis-advantages to win. You CAN win without having high stat totals. The non varium level 32's testify to that. You don't NEED to have the best stat totals to win, but having high stat totals would in correlation, decrease the amount of strategy and luck needed. However, this is NOT to be confused with "People with high stat totals don't have strategy". You will still need luck and strategy at the end, but the less strategy(ies) and luck needed to win, makes the battle easier to win because your strategy becomes more reliable in correlation.



    InTheSky -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 1:26:59)

    Exactly how many non-varium have ALL enhancements? Not one. I'd say anything OVER 20 stat points is WAY to much for a non-varium to handle.
    Keep in mind they have to save for rares also. since they RARELY get them, they never know when their coming, so it's risky to even spend any credits on any enhancements. The enhancements cost is far to much credits.
    I've beat decent non-varium with rares by them going first and I even skipped my first turn.


    "The person with the higher stat points win always. The gap is just to big. "
    This was pointed at non-varium vs varium point of view. if it's only a 10 stat point difference then I'd say you have a good chance depending on who goes first.



    Deadly PoisoN -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 1:33:58)

    @PD,your complete analysis of everything i said is perfect,only you can do mathematics and my head hurts if i have to do it too much.Pd basically filled in the gaps of everything i left out.Why is it that a non varium has to basically work his/her butt off to extreme lvls of dedication,that 90% of people that do have lives simply cannot do.All this to just stand a chance.And as you say,the stats even if a free player gets lucky sits 30 points behind.

    All this surrounded by the fact that you,let me number it[>:]
    1.Had to buy certain rares,otherwise you're down.
    2.Had to have the highest lvl in the game to get the worthwhile ones.
    3.Have to have a good build,almost leaving no gaps for error.

    Now let me list what a varium player has to do,this is all in the name of fair pvp battles right?Just like nightwraith said.
    1.Buy varium
    2.Gain insane stats,don't have to have rare items since the shops are loaded with selection,that's if you aren't fussy and can actually craft strategies.
    3.Sit behind insane stats and spam gamma/assualt bot.
    4.If they are in trouble,ah who cares?We'll just go defensive and win the match on normal strikes.
    5.Just laugh at the start of each match,because they know they'll win 99.999% of the time if it's a free player.
    6.Complain if they get defeated by another varium player and then buffs are applied to their build,making them even stronger.



    edwardvulture -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 1:59:11)

    ^Are you serious? 99.999%? Not against me. I knock most of them under 35 life after they heal, that's when I lose. I win probably 40 percent of the time. I used to have a higher percentage, but Space Warrior was released...



    Deadly PoisoN -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 2:30:53)

    @edward,obviously that 99.999% was just a bit of sarcasm,which at this point is completely natural.When you said:''BUT THEN SPACE WARRIOR WAS RELEASED''.I just typed in caps for emphasis,not anger.Anyway,that part made me laugh since azreal bane serves the same purpose,to down free players even more.

    Each update you'll notice that there's some or other feature that not only strongly encourages payment,but it's to the point where you can call it forceful.Like i said,it's easy to sit back and say that it's any person's choice.But the word choice is so loose in epicduel atm that it doesn't exist.

    This is not a mistake or coincidence,it's pure practice and willful behavior.



    Soliqe -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 2:51:00)

    The V-Noobs are being the same as usual. "OMG WAT U WANT THEM TO MAKE FREE PLAYERS HAVE MOAR?! OMG HAX I WANT MY MONEY BACK"

    Personally, I must agree that the Varium aspect of this game has gone way too far. I would much rather see some more weapons for our F2P friends. I'll be honest I'm one of those 'Oh good a F2P this battle should definitely be easier." However, with recent inflation of prices, it's a bit insane. I see F2P's with the same weapons OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

    It's always the same guns, and auxes. I personally regret that the varium players are so much better. I was a F2P from level 1 to level 26 and I never had that much trouble fighting varium players. Now if you look at F2Ps they are so desperate now. They get creamed at level 20 now, and if you happen to make it to 27 you feel hopeless because you're getting two turned by level 32s.

    It's madness! I think Titan and Nightwraith need to stop rushing things. They need to focus on two things:

    1. 2v1 Boss Battles and Survival Mode
    2. Free content for free players

    The V-Terds can wait for two-four weeks. They won't die. (Does anyone remember the once a month releases in the summer?)

    ~L0TUS EpicDuel Founder and Egg Staff Wielder



    aqwshadowking14 -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 10:42:42)

    I would like to say that if there isn't an actual benefit to varium, who would buy it? I also agree that non-variums are under powered, that's sometimes their own fault. If you look at some non-variums their builds have the wrong amount of stats on them. You should also understand that rare weapons are stronger than normal weapons, varium or non varium, that's how the game goes.



    Deadly PoisoN -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 11:14:39)

    @aqwshadowking14,can you do me a favor?Go right to the start of this thread,read my post carefully and then ask yourself if anything you just said makes any sense?I even stressed the fact that without varium this game cannot go further into development.Rares being the most powerful is a point i raised,this is a fault in the game.

    You can't just say,hey that's how it is,everything needs fixing,nothing in gaming is ever balanced unless reasonable changes are made.What's the point of making a single weapon available to a class and then making it go rare when you know that it's a huge gap in the game for that particular weapon type?

    You see,when you post something and contribute to a discussion,posting a random message just for the sake of posting doesn't help anyone.The whole point of my post was to show how everything nightwraith said,can be summed up in a single sentence.I didn't even need to twist his words or use them out of context.

    You basically addressed my post as if i had no clue of how epicduel and the holiday items work,in fact your post makes it seem like you're the one that needs to see things for more than they are.

    F2p players underpowered?Nope.We barely have selections,are you telling me that just because i chose a bounty hunter i deserve to only have 2 weapons in the entire game available to me?The rest is rare or varium,are you really telling me that after epicduel being in development for over a year that they can't create an adequate shop system.

    But they can easily create Azrael's bane,this right after charfade sold a bunch of varium items too?Same goes for the holiday shop,they basically only had useful rares at lvl32.The rest is varium and once again covered more lvl gaps.

    If my bounty could get winter cleavers at lvl32 it would be a godsend.But now it's rare for a frikken year and i'm stuck with lvl30 claws and they have weak stat gains to boot.

    Is that just how it is?Are you suppose to be punished for being 1 or 2 lvls away from a rare that fills gaps?Something isn't sound here.Oh wait,i already addressed what it is.

    And another thing,please don't spout ignorance on how free players sometimes have bad builds,so do varium players,and your point is?Let me tell you something,the difference is the immense amount of stat points a varium player gets,this makes it so that half the time even if they did have a bad build,it's still not bad if you compare them to free players.

    There's a little info download for you,take what i just said and reflect on it for a moment or 2...When you're done you'll mysteriously realize that what i just said is RIGHT.



    Pyronix15 -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 11:40:00)

    The balance was fine until weapon enhancements came.

    Most non varuims lack the funds to enhance, increasing the gap by a good 6-10 points.



    Snaipera -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 12:01:32)

    ^ Indeed . At first it was only 4 slots max . Then came ..... armor enhancements (another 4-10 points of disadvantage) and another +2 enhancement slots to everything , thus making the gap .. well huge . Thus the varium items are now really getting more powerful . For example the varium sidearms have +18 stats while the non-varium ones only have +12 . Bazooka balance is fine , so is primary balance . Armor , i'd say too . Still enhancements are ruining f2p builds[:)]



    110Stalker -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 14:33:41)

    Okay now there is one thing everyone seems neglectant to speak of the so called "balance" in the classes themselves. What I'm seeing here (from a buisness perspective) is cut out half of what is available, then charge money to get it back. An example of this is the critical percentage, the numbers where cut down into thirds. Now with azrealize bane (not positive on spelling there but no matter) you get what you were left with doubled?!?! It's an old buisness scam, and it still works today.

    And by the way Cinderella, threads such as this one have been showing up for a few months. I promise you that neither nightwraith nor titan give a crap what is asked if we dont offer an arm, and a leg as payment. And please, somone tell me how much money it takes to run a game such as this.(Very little) Now look at how much money is comming in from people who want to be up top. Guys if they wanted to make this game fair to our free player friends then they would have by now.


    And uhhh..... Anyone notice you never see either of them reply to one of these threads seriously.
    Regardless to what some people may belive, I WANT to be proven wrong about them.



    KingOfGame -> RE: Epicduel,free to play or pay to win? (2/1/2011 17:08:34)

    "Deadly Poison" I completely agree with you and with others like angel holocaust,Goony,PD and Buffy a Summer this game is all about money. the first time i spend 10 dollars in the game i was having high expectations. the problem is not just balance is also the weapon it self. whats the point of buying a weapon that in the next update is going to be c completely useless. They got to make a way that the weapon don't become so useless so quick but them again that will just make them lose money just like making varuim sell back would they said thats a problem because many player that have already sold weapons will be mad so im hoping they are thinking of way to reward does who already have which i doubt. As for non varuim they are not just unfair in the weapons stat but in their looks too. "THIS GAME IS THE BIGGEST RIP OFF I HAVE SEEN IN MY LIFE" and the funny thing is that they even created a new forum to keep players from telling their real opinion even further. AND YES WHAT NIGHWRAITH SAY DID NOT SATISFIES MY QUESTION AT ALL.



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