EMP Grenade too effective? (Full Version)

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evil2k8 -> EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 14:49:43)

Do you find the EMP Grenade too effective? Even at low levels it takes more energy than the Atom Smasher and Assimilation, what's more is that it's non-blockable.

EMP Grenades need nerfing.

Let's just use in one area instead A Comprehensive Balance Discussion to discuss for balancing. Thanks. :) ~AVA



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:03:08)

No it doesnt.Atom Smahser is about equal to EMP Grenade.It does not need nerfing.Assimilation needs buffing and needs to be unblockable and Atom Smasher needs to be unblockable.That we can all have powerful moves that take away energy and are unblockable.EMP Grenade is fine.Stop asking for a nerf for one class and try to buff you own so sick of nerf this nerf that how about buff your own!



Mr.Pablo Jr. -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:03:23)

Wow, another bounty hunter nerf huh? Just carry Energy boosters and you'll be fine or make a build to counter it.



evil2k8 -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:11:31)

I have a 5 focus build with 41 Energy. It's impractical having more than 41 Energy because most of the bounties EMP Grenade does 30+ AND unlike Atom Smasher (Strength) EMP is unblockable and since it's improves by Tech, it's too effective for a 5 Focus builds. Your seeing bounties as "Awwwww not another nerf..." but in reality, Mercenaries were nerfed 3 times before finally becoming balanced with other classes. All i'm saying is, the EMP Grenade on a 5 Focus build is too effective especially when it's not blockable.



Pyronix15 -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:12:00)

yeah, lets nerf the last real weakness to a support merc left.........


EDIT- and since when are 5 focus builds so reliant on energy?



evil2k8 -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:13:22)

@Above:
5 Focus builds DO require energy, what IF your smoked by a bounty? you'll be blocked and without any energy, you cannot heal nor can you use pretty much any skills, so your stuck with just "Attacking" meaning you'll more than likely be blocked.

Actually, I'm a merc, but NOT support or strength.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:16:31)

You cant directly compare class skills. For example, Mercinaries are better at multi target skills. Artillery strike=uber. Multi shot=epic fail.

Atom smasher is admittedly useless, but they should make that stronger, not nerf EMP.

Assimilation works ENTIRELY differently then EMP so comparing them is pointless. (Gives energy instead of uses it up, deals damage.)

We would be 100% useless in 2v2 without a good emp.

EMP is the only counterbuild we have for dreaded massive support mercs.

EMP requires a very significant amount of skill points to be effective.

Mr Evil, it seems to me that your build just happens to be weak to emp. There aren't a whole lot of emp bounty hunters out there, but we're still counterable. If you go first, spend as much energy as possible. If you don't have much left, we probably won't bother draining it. If we go first, you can use an energy booster or just attack directly. We have spent a turn and have less energy, and probably not max passives so victory is still quite possible.



charwelly -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:17:05)

Omg Bounty hunters again EMP isn't to effective it's the same as atom smasher



evil2k8 -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:21:09)

Atom Smasher is only effective to those of Strength builds EXCLUDING any blocks.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:23:27)

Then I suggest you make a thread about buffing atom smasher, not nerfing EMP.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:27:19)

@evil2k8

You are %100 right i support you its realy too strong , 5 focus build and +5 emp , you cant do anything.Now There is OPed BHs with EMP , Mercs are Oped too But i dont think problem is BH i think mage is a dead class , No need to try finding a good build , the problem is mage.Mage is useless without Healloop and will continue to be useless , Admins will never balance Mages. There is no other option than changing class.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 15:32:47)

Turkish. Are you saying focus applies to emp? Because it doesn't.



IzzyluvsU -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 16:09:19)

Stop complaning, First people complain there is no creativty in this game, then they complain they want all the Energy draining moves to be unblockable, What the heck? Seriously. you cannot have the best of both worlds.



Crossor -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 16:29:50)

Your comparing a move that only hits energy with moves that do damage+remove energy?



Deadly PoisoN -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 16:38:14)

Yeah,please nerf emp granade.Get a grip,the day buster bunker and defensive 5 focus tanks get a nerf,then emp can be nerfed too.Until then,my only answer is...Get over it.



*Nova* -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 16:41:35)

And that's why Builds that give you just enough mana to use all your skills is bad. No, EMP don't need to be nerfed. This is a strategy game, just get more mana.



edwardvulture -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 18:15:45)

EMP requires energy to use, unlike assilimination. I say its good enough for a tier 2 skill.



Raven God -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 18:30:41)

With all due respect to anyone who may feel flamed (bear in mind it is not my intention in doing so), but aren't you sick and tired of making all these nerfing complaints?
Well I most certainly do! Nowadays ED General Discussion is "buried" under piles of such threads.

@evil2k8 I don't even know where to start... OK, putting it simple, if the bane of your build is EMP, carry boosters, increase your mana, whatever... But if it isn't viable for your build, well I'd say its natural, because every build has its counters... ITS NORMAL! No build is loss-proof. Every build has its flaws, like every class also does.
So please (asking you politely), work on your builds, improve it, instead of ruinning the builds of others. EMP is not an overpowered skill:

- Cost-wise: EMP costs way more energy than Atom Smasher. The latter has the advantage here.
- Damage wise: Both quite close, with EMP being slightly stronger for Tech builds, while Atom Smasher is more effective on Strenght builds.
- Accuracy wise: EMP is better because its unblockable. Atom Smasher is not.

So, when it comes down to numbers, I guess its 1 win for both skills and a tie. Atom Smasher is blockable, a price to pay for such a low energy cost, while EMP is unblockable with higher cost. Practically the same from my point of view, so why is EMP overpowered again...?

But if you still think it is underpowered relatively to EMP (and I would like you providing evidence to why the latter is as overpowered as you make it sound), why not appealing for a Atom Smasher buff instead? Thx for your attention.



H4ll0w33n -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 18:48:51)

@IsaiahtheMage

you provide no proof that emp is equal to atom smasher and assimilate is worse then all of them.



InTheSky -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 18:51:41)

Agreed. EMP vs Atom. (BH vs Merc)

Atom blockable. BH have their OP SA. Why would you even risk it?

EMP just needs over 27 to as useful as it needs to be. A booster won't save you. It's unblockable BH who use EMP aren't likely to use that much energy, so the energy EMP needs means nothing.



od -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 19:03:37)

@raven
WAY more is exaggerating, it's only 5 mana.



Raven God -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 19:11:25)

@InTheSky Dude, do not limit to stating untrue, unproven stuff about something.
EMP exists for a reason: for players who actually put their minds in the game and racionalize, think and strategise according to their opponents (players such as myself). What you just posted does not prove it is in fact overpowered, which is not, as so is not Shadow Arts for that matter.

If you are convicted of what you think about EMP, I would like to see coeherent proof of such instead of random unfundamented gibberish you posted there. I took the work of getting facts and appealing to logic in order to support my convictions; I apreciate you do the same as a sign of intelligence and respect.

If you are so threatened by EMP users, here's an advice from one: Increase your mana pool. Use builds that are less dependable on energy. Create a EMP-countering build. Work your build around, instead of asking for something to be nerfed right away.

@od Sorry if I overdid that point of view in my comparison, I just made it relevant due to complaints about Merc's energy is precious (since they cannot increase their mana pools by sacrificing stats for some reason I do not know). In such terms, I believe 5 EP can mean the diference between, say, being able to use Field Medic or not.
But thx for pointing to that fact. Aprecciated.



InTheSky -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 19:16:51)

You posted practically the exact type of form I posted in.

And now you can't prove my points wrong and you're getting mad.

quote:

EMP exists for a reason: for players who actually put their minds in the game and racionalize, think and strategise according to their opponents (players such as myself).


It's rationalize.



Raven God -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 19:31:05)

@InTheSky Who says you decide what form of post should I use or not? FYI, I did not copy your form, I do not even need to do so.

And, for that matter, I never lose my calm on people who cannot prove what they say. I simple ignore them, because if you obviously cannot keep it rational, might as well not even confront me, because your not even worth me wasting my time. I already did provide evidence... what about you? Not so much. I have not seen you prove one bit of what you mentioned as "fact".

Its not I that have to provide anymore evidence. You created an hypothesis, as such you must corroborate in order for it to be valid, not me. It is YOU that have to do so.

---

About the Grammar correction, I gladly apreciate it (no sarcasm). I shall remind you tho, for I seen such attitude from you in other threads used with ill-intent, that not all people in the world lives in America (or countries in which English is widely spoken for that matter) nor does everyone have English as their mother tongue. Just a reminder that no one is forced to speak English perfectly.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: EMP Grenade too effective? (2/4/2011 19:35:45)

@Hallow why should I have to?Have you not seen the skills been used or used them yourself?A lvl 7+ Atom Smasher usally does 25+ energy take away and EMP usally does about the same but like Ravon said EMP is unblcokable and cost more and Atom Smasher cost less but is blockable.Assimilation is 90% useless.You take away 10 energy points AT MAX and ONLY get 5 back and it is COMPLETELY BLOCKABLE.



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