RE: Luck Discussion (Full Version)

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PD -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/7/2011 0:19:02)

Imma make formula for how much Dex and support Shadow Arts does. Perhaps then we'll see just how much Luck SA provides.

Be patient. I'll make it by tomorrow probably.



Remorse -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/7/2011 0:21:46)

I have thought of many ways in which to reduce lucks anoyence and still keep the game balanced. Some of these idea may be very big but take time to think about them before you flame them.

Termanoligy: when the term " To (stun,crit,deflct,block) them" is used it mean to do this on an oppenent eg. 5 % increase to crit the oppenent. When the Term " To GET (stun,crit,deflct,block) ny the oppenet means your oppenet gets you eg. 5% decraese to GET Crit.

Idea 1. -Reduce Minumum
Means reduce the minumum chance of all luck by 1-2% eg. block rates from 5% minumum to 3-4% minumum.

Idea 2- Final Blow
Means the final blow on an oppenet is 1-2% less likely to be Bloked, Criticaled or Deflected

Idea 3- Shield Effects
For BH or TM: Mean whenver energy shield or defnce matrix is cast the chance to be crit is 1-2% less from whatever the shield is enhancing eg. A mage casts DM and is now 2-1% less likely to be crit by a phiscal attack during the shield existance
For Mercs: either make it 2-1% less likely to crit when blood shield is active with a resistance attack or just 1-0.5% to not be crit by whatever Hybrid armour is enhancing.

Idea 4- Shadow Arts
In my opinion SA arts should be shared between luck rates meaning rather than 10% to block an oppenet 5% to block and not be blocked.
So shadow arts should improve by 0.5% per level and alos do the same affect with stun. This way classes won't get blocked so much by BH and BH wont have SA nerfed for the third time.

Idea 5- Stun without a turn
Means stun is 5% less likely to occur if the opponent has not yet had a turn. (yes mercs that build is cheap, not op, just cheap)

Support / Don't : please state whether you support or not and il try to keep a talley

Suggestion: please feal free to make any suggestion to my ideas or pherhaps add your own.

Thank You For reading, Remorse



Shadronica -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/7/2011 6:21:53)

Shadow Arts was manufactured to give BH's an advantage. Meanwhile it is throwing the luck/balance factor right off in the game.

Unfortunately Barneypwnsu is busy and is unable to post the vid for the battle I had talked about in a previous post. I will post the link when I have it. Proof that battles just go terribly wrong right from the very start with no reasonable explanation. These battles are far more prevalent than ever!

Everyone can quote maths, physics or even Titan's calculations to their hearts content but you will never convince me that there is nothing wrong. I have been in ED far too long and know the difference.

I agree with Goony regarding EMP, Atom Smasher and Assimilate.






Gabriel Dude -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/7/2011 23:19:54)

Lol I just dont know what to do with this unbalance.[:@] I´m a 5 focused Bh and get bad unbalance, I changed to support the same, now I´m strength and it doesnt change lol
now its worst I get blocked,deflected,critted or all every single fight I just dont know what to do i would reccomend at least if not making balanced the game having a limit of crits,blocks,and deflections in an hour that way I can at least enjoy the game [:)] btw lol taking emp from a BH its taking BHs good we neeed tht to at least survive against merc lol u mages got assimilation tht u dont even use atom smasher its like useless for merc i suggest maybe if the problem its SA remove SA and maybe apply the suggestion i just did that would be ok for me [;)]



PD -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/8/2011 0:23:10)

I don't break Promises, so here's the Spreadsheet everyone (Or at least the people who wanted it) has been waiting for!

Shadow Arts Boost Calculator, made by PD/Mr.SUP/SUP/SOUP

It instantly show the chances to block with and without Shadow Arts. Therefore, this instantly shows how "Lucky" the person gets with the Shadow Arts boost. I've set it to be editable for everyone. When you're done, please erase the values you used for the next person.

Also, if you noticed, I don't know how to calculate how much Dexterity SA Gives, but I do know that if the Attacker had 60 Dex, and the Defender had 100 Dex, with Max SA, the Defender's new Dexterity becomes 120, which is +20 Dex.

If anyone knows the exact formula to calculate the dexterity boost for SA, please do show me. Feedback and correction on the spreadsheet itself is also wanted.

I also hope this proves just how powerful and Influential SA really is.

EDIT: Alright, since someone ruthlessly vandalized the Spreadsheet, I'm setting it as View only. If you want to edit, please go download it so you don't ruin it for others. Thank you.



voidance -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/8/2011 1:14:36)

Link doesnt work.



PD -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/8/2011 9:41:47)

Access level fixed. Anyone should be able to view (But you can't edit))



Absolute Truth -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/9/2011 17:23:34)

I would really like to know why Titan or Nightwraith only have not really responded to all the reasonable arguements and complaints about this block, stun, crit, and deflect thing that is so clearly different now and out of control than what it once was and how the weaker or more pressured opponents seem to get more lucky especially when they are about to die. Regardless of someone's build. I am really happy that some people though are starting to wise up and see it and point it out because I've been posting this sort of problem out for a while now and Titan and Nightwraith clearly need to do something. This kind of thing takes much more than just sending them a private message, but they need to know that much of their primary customers and strong gamers are all in agreement. A response from only the mods is not what is needed. It would also be a big shame if this post was deleted, locked, disregarded, or even worse some people being banned without being rude in any way just because of confronting and exposing a clear problem that needs to be heard and understood and dealt with. I have no problem with much lower opponents going first but the issues that I have just stated is worth speaking up about. I'm not asking for people to go on strike or protest against Epic Duel because I still think this game is great but this has become a huge problem in the past few months and believe me that there are a lot of good and faithful players who agree and I've been playing Epic Duel even before they partnered with AE and so I see the difference by good observation and experience.



Shadronica -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/9/2011 21:02:13)

Ok now enough is enough is ENOUGH!

I am a lvl 32 varium merc close to becoming an emperor. I also have a lvl 32 varium character also heading towards emperor.

NEVER EVER before have I been cleaned up by a lvl 30! A non varium lvl 30 mage no less!!! I have a 5 focus build which is a reasonably balanced build.

What in hells name is going on??!!

Get a grip this ain't a strategic PvP game anymore. Its becoming more and more insane each week.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/9/2011 21:48:47)

goony made a good point bout the energy drain of other classes being nerfed because of shadow arts. mages assimilation does little energy drain. basically assimilation is kinda useless on bh because it will most likely get blocked because most bh have maxed sa or more than lvl 4 sa. this means they get 4-10% more chance to block.emp is unblockable so most bh using energy drain are not so affected by sa. not saying sa should be nerfed but sa = luck and this is a discussion bout luck. either make enery not affected by sa or make emp affected by sa but still unblockable. hears my idea sa can deflect emp and emp only not guns not aux.



Gabriel Dude -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/10/2011 17:11:53)

lol if SA can deflect emp it would hav to deflect bunker,artillery,mages spells,surgical strike and stun grenade for BH soo i guess make a limit of blocks per hour and change SA for somethin if u guys cry soo much [:D][:)]



voidance -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/10/2011 20:54:27)

I personaly think they should just make Emp Grenade blockable because the other 2 Energy drain skills can be blocked and theirs is no where near as powerful as Emp.



Cinderella -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/11/2011 14:42:15)

PD- I didn't think that Shadow Arts changed your dexterity, just the chance to block or stun. I don't even think it increases the chance of deflection.



Digital X -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/11/2011 14:45:10)

quote:

Shadow Arts:Passively increases your chance to block, and chance to stun the enemy.
Energy Required: 0 (Passive)
Block and Stun Chance Increased:
Level 1: 1%
Level 2: 2%
Level 3: 3%
Level 4: 4%
Level 5: 5%
Level 6: 6%
Level 7: 7%
Level 8: 8%
Level 9: 9%
Level 10: 10%
Weapon Required: None
Stat: 20 Support
Level Required: 10
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 0


Says nothing about a DEX change there.

Quoted from the Bounty Hunter page on the ED Wiki.



Matgon -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/11/2011 15:28:58)

quote:

PD- I didn't think that Shadow Arts changed your dexterity, just the chance to block or stun. I don't even think it increases the chance of deflection.


It used to... but it was removed, right?



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/11/2011 15:45:06)

I can guarantee it doesn't increase dex- I based it off of stun grenade damage :P

@Matgon Correct :)



Gabriel Dude -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/11/2011 20:53:06)

Lol i just got blocked 7 times by a strength Bounty Hunter [:@]



Wraith -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/11/2011 22:29:41)

That shadow arts will be the end of us all(unless you have sa)



PD -> RE: Luck Discussion (3/11/2011 23:59:59)

@Cinderella, Matgon, ED Prince of Shadows: Thanks for catching that.

Also, I've made a private version of a calculation thingy-mah-bober, and I'll release it as soon as it's ready for public.



Donny The Ultimate -> Luck Discussion (3/12/2011 15:53:54)

Ever since the update ive been getting alot of loses because of blocks deflects and crits there just out of control now this is ruining a perfectly fair match do u guys think the game should do something to stop this?

Since this basically the same discussion as before, I've merged this into Luck Discussion. You can continue the discussion in one thread. ~Ashari



xxmirxx -> RE: Crits Deflects and Blocks (3/12/2011 15:58:13)

me to



8x -> RE: Crits Deflects and Blocks (3/12/2011 16:08:56)

Nothing has changed (by that I mean blocks, crits...), you just want something new to complain about.



Absolute Truth -> RE: Crits Deflects and Blocks (3/12/2011 17:39:26)

Some may not agree with this but it also seems that damage done to us or others is not the way it once was either. It seems that the range of damage is more spread out now and not as consistent as what it once was and I'm talking about regular damage, not from crit or rage and I'm not sure if it's related to this whole out of control block, stun, crit, deflect thing. But I have no doubt at all that the the block, stun, crit, and deflects are certainly a problem now in the game and something needs to be done and the devs need to understand and realize this and do something. The more pressured a person is, then the greater their chances become of getting a block, stun, crit, and deflect and especially when they are about to die and the super tanked players like me are the ones who should see and experience this the most because it seems that the stronger players get punished more for having good builds and the weaker players get rewarded with increased chances of block, stun, crit, and deflect and the lower lv people I really don't have a problem with them going 1st. But also again it seems to be just whoever is in a more pressured situation and especially when they are about to die that their chances increase.



Goony -> RE: Crits Deflects and Blocks (3/12/2011 21:01:09)

OK, the game is working correctly and the random factors are being applied as the calculations suggest!

Overall, with all my characters, I have had close to 50000 battles over a period of 15 months and there are too many occasions when luck factors have helped me win or contributed to a loss!

What continues to amaze me is the quantity of random factors that are in the game, based on the way the calculations are applied it would seem that the frequency could be reduced by a good margin.

Heres a few suggestions:

Rage

For starters the calculation shown on epicduelwiki is wrong! It reads [Formula] Filled Rage Bar = 40 + (5 * Level) and it should read [Formula] Filled Rage Bar = 40 + (3 * Level) and received is misspelled (recieved)
-Reduce defence/resistance ignore to 40%
-Increase the support modifier from 3 to 4

This will require a 60 support differential to reach the maximum/minimum (115%/85%) rage rate increase/decrease. The reduction of rage damage is to ensure that in any attack no more than 100% of total defence or resistance can be ignored. (see criticals below)

Deflections

-Reduce base chance to deflect from 10% to 5% (based on even support)
-Reduce minimum chance to deflect from 2% to 1%
-Reduce maximum chance to deflect from 25% to 15%
-Increase support modifier from 3 to 5
-Reduce the damage ignore from 50% to 30%

What this will do is considerably reduce the deflects, but if you do get a deflect they will do more damage! If you have 20 more support than your opponent then they will have a 1% chance to deflect and if you have 50 more support than your opponent you will have 15% chance to deflect!

Criticals

-Reduce defence/resistance ignore from 75% to 40%

This will reduce the damage done in a critical strike and also when combined with a rage critical the damage ignore is reduced from 120% defence/resistance ignore to 80%. How any attack can ignore more than 100% of total defence/resistance is an abnormally and if the defence/resistance ignore was reduced then attacks like maul, bunker buster, bludgeon or cheapshot would be closer to a maximum of 100% defence/resistance ignore when a rage critical happens on these strikes. Possibly there should be a cap on defence/resistance ignore!

Blocks

-Reduce base chance to block from 10% to 5%
-Reduce minimum chance to block from 4% to 1%
-Reduce maximum chance to block from 45% to 25%
-Increase block modifier from 2 to 4
-Include Shadow Arts in the maximum chance to block calculation
-Reduce damage ignore from 100% to 80% (this means that blocks will do some damage not 0 damage)

So to reach maximum of 25% chance to block the dexterity difference would need to be 80 points higher. It would be possible for a BH to get the 25% chance to block if they have maximum Shadow Arts with a 40 point dexterity advantage over their opponent. Minimum chance to block is a 16 point dexterity differential and above!

Just my 2 cents, luck plays too great a role in the game and since focus and agility have been introduced the consolidation of builds has meant that random factors have become increasingly important!



Cinderella -> RE: Crits Deflects and Blocks (3/13/2011 0:19:42)

@Shadronica- I thought about you when I went on yesterday and got my butt handed to me by a level 30 nonvarium player (blocked/deflected my every move, and critted me while I was stunned). <3



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