Shadow Arts Discussion (Full Version)

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IsaiahtheMage -> Shadow Arts Discussion (3/18/2011 21:14:03)

@Nailboss Yes it does SA does go over the 45% cap.Like 3 mods already confirmed it.It goes up to 55%.

Edit:

@Charwelly and those people are wrong.Its a 10 % chance not a 90% chance get over it already.

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    • Nailboss -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:20:54)

    Isaiah, I've been told before by multiple people in the FAQ part of forum that it doesn't go over the cap. Please link these posts where you claim they said it goes over the cap, because I think you're wrong. I'll believe it when I see it.



    voidance -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:24:46)

    It doesnt matter, being able to have 45% OR 55% block rate in almost every match is Oped.



    Nailboss -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:31:29)

    not when you're sacrificing a heap of stat points for it. mercs use 10 points to get hybrid armor, why aren't you complaining that's OP too, free 13 damage reduction... work it out, thats 26 damage every 2 turns, which is around what a block stops, against a regular (non-strength) build...



    voidance -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:37:54)

    We cant take that away because they dont have any buff skills, Mages have Technician and Defence matrix, Merc's got Hybrid armor, and Bh's have Energy shield, Reflex boost, Shadow arts, and Bloodlust if you wanna count the fact they got a healing skill which is basicly a buff. (and Smoke screen which makes them block more/hit higher/heal more)



    Nailboss -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:41:09)

    mercs have intim which reduces incoming damage. if you have a high-level intim (spend the same 10 stat points on it as a bh spends on SA) you'll get a good 40+ strength reduction, which coupled with hybrid means you'll be taking a good -25 damage a turn ;) and then you still think that block chance is everything? plus the point is any class can build a high-dex setup and have the same 45% block chance, if you really tried. but there's no substitute for reroute is there? nope

    and voiddance, this was about block chance. mentioning skills like bloodlust is totally offtopic. also, they have high requirements now (38 support for max SA, 38 tech for max bloodlust) which really limit what kinda build you can use if you go with them. so, it's not all that great. reroute has no stat requirement and is probably the strongest passive skill in the game. why doesn't it have a requirement? why is noone complaining? mages are very underrated, a strong mage will beat a strong anything else in 1v1, just that people haven't figured out them because they're more complex... i'm working on leveling one up and i'll report back in a month with the results maybe ;) but i already have a good idea of a couple really nice builds for nonvar mage



    voidance -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:46:58)

    First of all Strength doesnt affect every attack so no they cant do what your saying, you can still use aux, energy robot attack, and physical robot attack and then the strength debuff is gone. Second i'm not saying every class cant get that 45% block rate, i'm saying it is much much easier for Bh's to do it. Third dont even bring reroute into this, thats like saying take bloodlust away?



    And LOL at that edited comment you added, you think you can figure out a unbeatable mage build in less then a month with a non-varuim mage when some of us been mages for month's upon a year. Shundraa is one of the best mages in the game and still can be beat easily with right build.



    Nailboss -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:48:44)

    strength doesn't affect every attack, you're right. but neither does block. you can pistol, zooka, heal, pistol, bolt/bunker/stun etc, zooka, pistol... that's 7 unblockables in a row. which is a lot more than non-strength attacks you can do in a row.



    voidance -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:51:28)

    Most mages use sword's so that leaves them 2 unblockables.



    Nailboss -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:53:03)

    sword mage: pistol, zooka, shield, pistol, heal, zooka, pistol... still 7 :P



    Cinderella -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:56:06)

    I don't think that Shadow Arts can increase above the max chance to block, but I need to confirm that.

    @below I think that's a Titan question, not a me or even Wiseman question.



    button33 -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:57:01)

    http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=18683311
    Nailboss
    Here's the link that confirms that the cap is 55% with SA
    Read the whole thread



    voidance -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 13:59:17)

    Thats only 5 and why would i shield 3rd turn in match?



    Nailboss -> Shadow Arts Discussion (3/4/2011 14:02:10)

    ok thanks, that's good to know. in that case it is quite a bit more powerful than it looks like initially, though with the support requirement it's not too bad... i don't even have max SA on my build cause i only have 35 sup/tech for 3 focus (changed to high-str build today, it's ridiculously good btw, kills mercs in 3 hits if they dont intim... though i got 2shot by a str merc [sadface])



    voidance -> RE: Shadow Arts Discussion (3/4/2011 14:10:32)

    Tbh its that build right there. 90% of people probaly wouldnt complain about SA if people like dax, donna matrix, and about 70% of the other 32 varuim Bh's used that build.



    Nailboss -> RE: Shadow Arts Discussion (3/4/2011 14:20:59)

    well right now i'm still playing around with builds. i'm chainging to a higher hp version of that setup and dropping some support/tech down to 2 bonus to give more hp while keeping the str. i'll have to see how it goes but this only gives me 7 bloodlust and 6 SA. just that i had 91 hp before and it was too fragile, i'm going to 109hp now with 1 less damage and 2 less protections... should still be good i think :) have to try it and see.

    my main build though looks like this, with an easy 90% win rate in 2v2 and 1v1: 

    125 hp
45 mp

 base,weap,ench
str 42 +22 +4  =53-57 primary damage
dex 42 +31 +14 =28-34 defence
tec 40 +20     =28-33 resistance (7 from founder)
sup 40         =51-53 secondary damage

10 bloodlust
1  reflex
10 shadow
8  poison
2  smoke


    but like is aid i'm still experimenting, i try a few different builds a week, maybe i'll find something better, who knows...



    drekon -> RE: Shadow Arts Discussion (3/4/2011 19:31:25)

    I think everyone needs to stop complaining about SA already. It's been nerfed multiple times, what more do you want? I'll speak from my personal experience, SA DOES NOT HELP MUCH!!! I have it maxed plus high defense on some of my builds, but I hardly ever get a block. Occasionally, I do get a few blocks, but it's nowhere near the so-called 55% some of you claim. It feels more like 25% chance to block. So quit your whining and lets duel.



    jegaggin -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 19:46:30)

    erm actually somewhere i read on the forums the max is 45%+10% of shadow arts



    OhMyGoshness -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 20:25:15)

    Lol.. The answer if it's really OPed or not is in the name of the person who made this thread.. IsiahtheMage is a Bounty hunter.. Now why would anyone want to switch classes.. Maybe because they know that particular class is better than the rest.. Think about it guys.. why would anyone who's name has a class on it change to another class..



    Dax -> RE: I cant take this anymore. (3/4/2011 20:59:18)

    To clarify once again - Wiseman has confirmed with Nightwraith that shadow arts does allow the block chance to go above the cap.



    IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Shadow Arts Discussion (3/4/2011 21:38:10)

    @Ohmygoshness Actually I am all 3 classes.



    drekon -> RE: Shadow Arts Discussion (3/4/2011 23:40:41)

    Even if the max is 45% +10%, most bounty hunters have well below the maximum chance to block. So stating the maximum as if we all have it is misleading and inaccurate.



    eragonshadeslayer67 -> RE: Shadow Arts Discussion (3/4/2011 23:43:13)

    ^are u sure? ^_^ HINT- "smoking" is bad and may cause dizzyness and may not be used when driving [:D]

    so yes many BHs do have close to 45% blocking chance



    Ashari -> RE: Shadow Arts Discussion (3/4/2011 23:50:03)

    @eragonshadeslayer67: That's rarely the case. You need a 70 Dexterity advantage to reach 45% block rate. That usually only happens if you smokescreen a low Dexterity strength build. Otherwise our block rate is nowhere near the max.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Remorse

    change it to decreases your chance to be blocked and stun by 10%(maxed) rather than increasing the chance to actully get it, i for one am a BH and would much rather winning rgihtfully without luck. this way every class would be happy and people will stop complaining.
    What do you guys think?


    The problem with this is that it would greatly reduce the effectiveness of SA. For the most part BHs already have very low Block Rates thanks to Smoke Screen and our builds generally having high Dexterity. You only need a 12 Dexterity advantage in order to reach the minimum 4% block rate. Most BHs are already at this point after a Smoke Screen. That means having Shadow Arts above level 4 would be a waste in 90% of situations.

    Similarly, the base stun chance can only go down with Support, not up. Stun is already a very underused game mechanic -- we don't need to make it worse.



    eragonshadeslayer67 -> RE: Shadow Arts Discussion (3/5/2011 0:30:35)

    ^oh yea?!, imagine str build with 57 dex and a tank BH with max smoke (-41 dex) and u have 81-90 dex that is 70 dex advantage right there, so what else is there to say? I made an aproximation so no need to get on my back about exact calculations because this thread is not a math competition



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