Physical Staff Discussion (Full Version)

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xxmirxx -> Physical Staff Discussion (3/4/2011 12:32:23)

cause I Find that bountys get 2 types of weps physical claws and energy. so why not mages
so what do you think should we get physical staff or no. ps there are none in game just incase anyone say there are.

quote:

Since there are already some similar topics, I have to change the title to Physical Staff Discussion to prevent multiple similar topics.

You can discuss here anything about Physical Staff:
- Why do Tech Mages never had Physical Staff in this game unless Overlord Staff?
- How many people here want more Physical Staff?
- Etc etc

~AVA



phycocat18 -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 12:33:17)

There is a physical staff in the overlord guard shop but it is varium.

Edit: @below it's also the only Physical staff. Even though i'm a merc i agree with more physcail staffs. My mage alt would porbaly never use them but it would be nice to have.



xxmirxx -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 12:40:58)

above your right



voidance -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 13:27:42)

Yes physical staves would be cool but i dont think that people are gonna start being caster mages again just because they can get a physical staff, so im just fine with my Azrael bane.



Nailboss -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 13:30:20)

there shouldn't have been even a single physical staff, ever.
you make a choice.
caster mage = primary weapon energy (still bludgeon for phys though)
sword mage = ability to have physical primary
you can still have robot, pistol and aux for physical damage though so its not much of a problem - with bludgeon too you can do nonstop physical damage the whole match ;)



voidance -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 13:53:18)

Thats like saying Bh's should have never had Energy claws? and besides much easier to make a wooden stick then it is to make a unrealistic energy based claw.



Nailboss -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 13:54:53)

a mage with a staff gets access to 4 different energy caster attacks. bh claws don't give them damage-specific attacks, that's the difference. if you could cast spells without a staff then it wouldn't matter, but by taking a staff you should limit your primary weapon to energy damage because of all the extra spells it gives.



Cinderella -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 13:57:46)

I think part of it was that the physical staff just wasn't very popular. If there's enough demand for it, I'm sure they can put in a few more.



xxmirxx -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 14:01:58)

above many don't know about physical staff not even me i have been play this game for long time.
they should be non varium staff too.



voidance -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 14:06:26)

@Cinderella
The reason its not popular is because the damage and stats are way outdated.

@Nailboss
If i had the choice i would love to make it where Bh's had to have Energy claws to use Emp grenade, Stun grenade, and Multi shot. Just so you could understand that having those skill's dont mean you wanna have to have a energy based weapon to use them.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 15:09:26)

@Nailboss

what are you talking about ,Skills ???? , Mages got the weakest skills of the game and all of the skill require class specific and all the class specifics are Energy , this is wrong.
Why Anything doesnt limit mercs , they can use 9 skills with Sword , they need club only for 2 skills.What mages want is only Physical Class specific , is it too much ?

@Cinderella

Almost all mages want Physical staff how can we demand more? , than make a poll and see what ppl want , i think BHs and Merc will give vote for Physical staffs to end this unfair.



Nailboss -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 15:22:47)

turkish, if all classes had the same everything there wouldn't be a point to having different class at all.

warriors have 2 weapon-spec skills,
rogues have 3 weapon-spec skills,
mages have 6 weapon-spec skills. (thanks bloodrainbow)

mages have 4 round-1 extra-damage skills (bolt, stun, bludgeon, deadlyaim)
mercs have 3 (doublestrike, bunker, stun)
bh have 2 (cheapshot, stun... poison doesnt really count)

however, mages have the highest first-turn spike damage (bolt. no other first-turn skill can match it for raw damage) and reroute lets them use skills more than any other class (heal loop is a good example).
mages also have the only skill in the game (bludgeon) which changes damage type on their primary weapon.
mages also have the only skill in the game (assimilate) which removes mana from your opponent AND damages them same round.

all 3 classes are different yet balanced. that's just how it is.



BloodRainbow -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 15:32:42)

@NailBoss, we actual have 6 skill that require a staff to use (plasmabolt, overload, plasmarain, supercharge, bludgen, assimalation).... thats half our skill tree so no matter how you look at it there should be absolutely no reason y we cant have more physical staffs put in game.













Nailboss -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 15:38:42)

fixed the 6, thanks.

however, even so, you don't need an physical staff to do physical damage:
robot, blugeon, pistol, aux, bludgeon, pistol, robot, aux, pistol, bludgeon, robot, pistol, aux.... this could go on forever so long as you have a little mana for bludgeon. so really, there isnt a need for a physical staff whatsoever. none of the other classes can do this because mage has the only skill that changes primary weapon damage type when it attacks.

edit: and without a robot, it goes like: blugeon pistol aux bludgeon pistol [other skill] blugeon pistol aux bludgeon pistol [other skill]... ie you only need one other skill every 6 rounds to do nonstop physical damage, and you probably wanna heal if a battle is that long



xxmirxx -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 15:43:39)

what about non varium players i think we can use it more. were already weak class in this game why not help us
get us better in game. for gamma bots they get blocks in game alot when go up against bh. even merc have to types of weps.



Gree -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 15:48:45)

Having a phys staff would be incredibly liberating. I would def use one if it was on par with other Varium items.

edit: I see people listing above to use bludg, then use a phys gun and aux. Why should i be limited to having to use phys guns and auxes just to keep my damage types balanced. Also if i want to use assault bot instead of gamma bot, i lose access to a phys attack. I like my current set up, but it would not work with an energy primary. Forcing me to use an energy primary also forces me to use non energy guns, auxes and bots just to stay balanced.



BloodRainbow -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 15:57:52)

yea there is the option of having a phyical gun and aux(bot is out of this cuz u can only have it if you have varium) but y should mages not have as many options as the other classes. mercs and bh can have any combo of weapon with and any build. but no matter what if mages want to use bludgeon or assimaltion, or and of there spells(which is what makes a mage a mage) we have to have an energy primary and that limits our build variety
the point behind the physical staffs is to allow more variety in builds.... whats wrong with that??



Grun Teufel -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 15:59:59)

More physical staves would be quite an interesting addition. I'd like to address a few things in this thread, however.

1: All energy? Why would you want an energy staff simply so that you can unlock *more* energy type attacks? Especially considering that the majority of said unlocked attacks are less effective in comparison to the other two classes? Not including that using a physical gun/aux in general only weakens the base offensive strategy offensive strategy of the mage class.

2: Skills. Overload is far from unmatched in first-turn damage. Bunker buster, Cheap-shot on strength bounty hunters, maul and double strike fr strength bounty hunters, they all can achieve equal, normally greater, damage than any mage spell.

3: Already have energy. The logic of saying mages don't need physical staves because they have bludgeon and can use physical auxiliary weapons and sidearms is essentially the same as saying Mercenaries should not have physical primary weapons because they can just use bunker buster/artillery strike; or that they should only have physical weapons so that they can use *more* physical attacks when they clearly can already use enough physical attacks.



B9000 -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 16:05:02)

As Gree mentioned it would be very limiting to use a phys gun and aux, especially if one doesn't have a robot. That would weaken malfunction's usefulness a lot. While on the odd battle it might work out for a mage to use a phys aux and gun, as an overall build choice I think it would be a rather bad idea. Also don't forget to keep the game mechanics in mind. You usually pick to do phys damage when your opponent has relatively low dex (d lower than res). Therefore making it wise to deal physical damage which works best with weapon strikes (less chance to be blocked). If they have lower dex, they may still have high support, which would make shooting phys damage at them less than ideal.



Nailboss -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 16:07:23)

grun: bunker/airstrike doesn't do ~60 damage (before resists, ofcourse) for 10 mana either ;)



Gree -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 16:23:08)

I don't see why we are even talking about bludgeon in this post. Giving mages access to appropriately powered physical staves in no way effects the balance of bludgeon.



Grun Teufel -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 16:26:12)

@Nailboss: Neither does any mage skill.



5rr5 -> RE: why do mages never had physical staff in this game? (3/4/2011 16:30:37)

There is only 1 physical staff it's overlord staff now lock



Nebula -> Physical Staff Discussion (3/4/2011 16:37:40)

There should be physical staves. Using certain skills as an excuse for why there shouldn't be any doesn't mean you have a good reason for why there shouldn't be any, it makes it worse. Skills are optional, however not using your primary weapon in a battle ( unless its something like a 32 vs 27 and its a 2-hit battle ) is nearly impossible. Limiting mages to energy staves, other than an incredibly weak one, makes the mage class even more undesireable in the current state of the game. Mages are pretty much forced to use swords since physical primaries with energy unblockables are usually the desired choice, unless they want an all energy build with a stave.

Saying that Mages have bludgeon and can use physical unblockables isn't a good backup for your argument. Like Grun said, Mages could just argue back that a Merc shouldn't have physical primaries because they can use physical skills, or say that they should be limited to them. Same with Bounty Hunters. Skills and other weapons shouldn't be a reason for physical staves not to exist.

Also @Nailboss like Grun said, mage skills never do over 60 damage. Maybe a max supercharge or plasma bolt but those cost 60 and 33 energy so that's not a valid argument. Since when does Bludgeon ever do that much in a decent build?

@Cinderella Mages have wanted physical staves for a long time. There has been a huge demand for it. When you say the idea of physical staves weren't popular, how long ago was that exactly?



Angels Holocaust -> Physical Staff Discussion (3/4/2011 16:47:00)

@ Conderella, I'm pretty sure that a lot of people have asked for a physical staff since the beginning of Beta. How can I say this, mages have always been discriminated since the beginning of the game. It was already bad enough when they crippled them by adding agility and increasing the cool down of field medic. If you all haven't noticed theres only 1 physical staff in the game. Logically speaking that doesn't make sense at all Merc and BH all have physical and energy weapons yet mages are stuck with only 1. It's strange don't you think, this game continues to promote itself by making more and more weapons each week yet they won't even create a decent amount of physical stave's for mages.




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