RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (Full Version)

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eragonshadeslayer67 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 23:53:12)

@gold:there is no "winning"

there is only getting lucky for mages, because if you are unable to crit/deflect/block the merc then idk ANY mage who can win in this situation, BHs have emp but even they have to bet on getting blocks with their SA and dex

and yes the mercs need clubs with the requirements of staves, 41 tech on the clubs would be nice



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 0:28:25)

@eragon
uhh idk what type of mage u must be
but the mages i fight all have high resistance, and unless they happen to crit me
which they always do with their gun or aux
then it comes very close to the point if i hit hard enough.
and most of these are 94 hp or 110 hp



voidance -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 0:31:45)

Well tbh we dont try to have high Res, its just that most times mages gear always gives good tech bonus and to add our 40-45 base tech on that makes its about 24-29 Res which really isnt much.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 0:32:41)

@void
yeah and the energy armors for the founder mages.
and most other mages also use energy armor
still i dont see how they are hard.
back when i was a mage and str merc was new i was beating them all the time.
all u have to do is malf, gun, aux and there the str merc is dead.



voidance -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 0:35:45)

Wait....in your prev post you said mages were easy unless they critical'd you but in this last post your saying they are hard? Which side you on?



Atomic garden -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 1:03:08)

I just got 2 shotted

i see why you guys complain!



PivotalDisorder -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 17:56:25)

put one turn warmup on Maul, Overload and stun grenade. seems the fairest option.



Sparticus -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 18:38:27)

I have a BH that uses Stupid Builds and I have a Merc that is a +5 focus stun-zerker with Gamma Bot. My BH blocks enough and has high enough stun resistance that the STR Stun-zerker seldom works. My Merc gets beat by lots of Mages and BHs with very average builds. I don't see the point of nerfing Maul when it's not that effective. I can understand no one wants to get 2 hit without being able to attack but it is also possible the Merc whiffs and you win easily so risk vs reward wise the Merc's build is more risky and has a greater reward. If you find yourself getting stunned often, perhaps you should take a look at your build instead of begging for a nerf.



eragonshadeslayer67 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 19:53:47)

@gold: before you make an assumption that I'm weak, take a look back at your post

quote:

unless they happen to crit me


which proves my point exactly, and mages don't have high resistance at all like voidance said and 24-29 res is nothing compared to the 33-40 res some 5 focus mercs have



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 20:53:42)

@eragon
i dont see how that proves ur point if crits and blocks are now even more out of control since last update.
anyone with 50-60 support will crit 1-5 times a match.
and i been critted 3 times by a support merc with aux, and twice by the artilery strike in a single battle.
but what pisses me off even more is that they call u a noob after wards because they got lucky.
5 crits in a row?
seems like BS to me.
worst of all is, he was non varium



Lectrix -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 21:02:51)

Beserker is practically an extra Final Skill (like Supercharge, Massacre, and Surgical Strike). So yeah, it definitely should be nerfed, because no other Class has a Level 1 Skill like Beserker (at Level 1).



Competition -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 21:07:43)

If you ever played as a STR Merc, you'll see how much times your going to loose. The majority of the losses from the obvious Smoke + Mass BH.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 21:24:40)

quote:

Beserker is practically an extra Final Skill (like Supercharge, Massacre, and Surgical Strike). So yeah, it definitely should be nerfed, because no other Class has a Level 1 Skill like Beserker (at Level 1).

thats not true
berserker is only effective if u have over 100 strengh
go put a BH with 80 strengh and watch him hit just as much damage with cheapshot when he smokes.



Lectrix -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 21:50:50)

I was also factoring in the Energy Cost...



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 22:12:24)

@lectrix
and did u notice how the BH combo only cost a little more but is way more effective?



Lectrix -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 22:19:30)

Under the same circumstances, Bounty Hunters will probably only do more damage if they Crit. Also, Bounty Hunters need two turns for Smoke Screen and Cheap shot, while Mercs can use Maul instead on their first Turn. A possible Stun, followed by a devastating attack. Sounds overpowered to me.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 22:41:38)

^
and increasing block rate by smoking isn't OP?
ignoring entire damage alone with just block isn't OP?
regaining health which in the end the only way to beat them is if u can hit them another 2 turns isn't OP?
having an unblockable stun isn't OP?
having unblockable energy drain isn't OP?



Wraith -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 22:59:49)

^Goldslayer1: I believe the only reason you are saying this is that you are a strength mercenary yourself. Also, Smokemassy BHs give you 3 turns to shield. With str mercs, its stun zerk, ur dead. End of story.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 23:10:18)

Dudes. It only needs a charge up of one. Thus, players have a garunteed chance to defend themselves first- defense matrix, energy shield, reflex boost, smokescreen, whatever you can do to improve your odds against the ludicrously high damage.. I believe it is WRONG for you to lose without having a single turn if you have a careful well made build, and any build that can do that needs to be balanced.

@Goldslayer

1) Use unblockables or heal/defend until it wears off.
2) Use unblockables.
3) You have hybrid armor, mages have reroute.
4) Name one FREAKING overpowered stun grenade build. That skill ain't the least bit overpowered and you know it.
5) No...its not. Its just not. Again, name ONE overpowered EMP build. It takes a turn, it takes energy points, and you can use energy boosters if you really must.

Listing off a bunch of skills that annoy you does not constitute an argument. It's impossible to combine stunning with high strength for our class. Because are stun is DEX BASED. We cant go 120 freaking strength and throw a stun grenade. It would be an absolute waste of a turn. Maul is overpowered because you can get however much strength you want and it just gets more powerful. TO BOOT, maul ignores 20% of your defense. Basically if it hits, screw your build, strategies, and defenses. You just got 50 damage on you, and another 70 from berzerker next turn, particularly if you get stunned.

@Jehannum.

No, that would not be fair. The devs admit that updates are not intended to restrict all classes, just the OP one. Think back a few weeks, when bounty hunter passives were viciously nerfed. Im pretty sure hybrid armor and reroute were still fine then. Why assume overload and stun grenade need to be nerfed just because Maul is overpowered. Listen. These skills will never be overpowered because they are dex based. Dex based builds have little to no offensive, once the grenade is thrown, along with wimpy crit rates and a weakness to crits, and energy attacks. Maul is strength based. I believe all strength based skills will be overpowered eventually. Deadly Aim and Bludgeion? Someday a mage will make it work. Cheap shot? Someone will find a way to exploit that crit % properly eventually. Massacre? Already has a huge history of being OP. Berzerker? Already has a history of being OP. Double strike? Just a mini berzerker.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/27/2011 23:43:23)

quote:

1) Use unblockables or heal/defend until it wears off.
2) Use unblockables.

then whats the point of even calling ur primary a "primary" if its gonna get blocked, it should be called " that wep thats gonna get blocked"

@lord
yes i am a strengh merc myself and obviously u dont see how much we loose, because u never been one (im guessing).
its just hilarious how str BH can be just a few wins behind str merc but have a much higher winrate.
idk if u noticed, but the average str merc does 80%-85%
the average str BH does 90%-95%

quote:

Berzerker? Already has a history of being OP. Double strike? Just a mini berzerker.

u keep forgetting that these kills are now EASILY blocked by BH
SHadow arts is to blame for this.
i gotten blocked 5 times by someone with 54 dex
when i have 75 dex, this doesn't make sense
ur trying to prove that str merc are OP only because we are lucky enough to bypass ur OPness in BH.



voidance -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 0:20:24)

@goldslayer1
I serously doubt you even get Critical'd 5 times in a match once a week, probaly not even once a month. The odds of anyone even doing 3 a match is astronomical, much less 5.



zenix -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 5:52:21)

quote:

Original form goldslayer1
u keep forgetting that these kills are now EASILY blocked by BH
SHadow arts is to blame for this.

I'm playing a BH. I tried much, but not even with high dex (83) + maxed SA + Reflex Boost (6 points) a block is guaranteed.
And most often the Str-Mercs goes first, making RB useless. My actualy block% against all classes/builds, but especially against Str-Mercs, is so low that it is almost funny.



evil2k8 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 15:56:03)

What really is the main cause of balance is the Health. It's too low meaning 40 crits would almost half your health, what I'm saying is Agility completely ruined the balance of ED. With low Health you can't really see the affects of Blocks/Crits/Deflections/Rages correctly.

On-topic.

Is this all about strength mercs? A bounty hunter can ruin their build on 1 turn via the EMP grenade (Which I find too effective) To be honest, Bounty hunters have it all. They can cause blocks, take one's Energy away and do successful HUGE damage with strength builds. Ill admit, I'm a strength merc myself but against a level 32 it's a challenge. All I'm saying is Health needs to be risen.



button33 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 16:44:44)

We all know that mercs are OPed. We are complaining now, and who is gonna stop us.
What about mages last year? They were getting complained at for loop healing. They got nerfed.
So we are now complaining about mercs. We don't want a 2 hit KO. So stop trying to argue so you won't get nerfed. Mages argued back, and we got nerfed. So mercs argue back, and they will get nerfed. The devs don't see the problem.
If the devs don't nerf the mercs, the devs are being unfair to other classes, and show that they don't really care what's happening in game and everyones getting 2 hit KOed by mercs.



He Who Lurks -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 16:46:54)

I love how the counter-argument at work is that they get blocked often. I find this to be untrue. I've seen strenght Mercenaries with 28-34 defense(84 dexterity unless mistaken) and still able to deal out over damage with over 120 strenght. The highest chance to be blocked is 45%. Less than half the time, you will be blocked.



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