RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (Full Version)

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Giras Wolfe -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 19:30:15)

@Goldslayer

I'm guessing they don't call it that because it would be stupid?

I am aware your str merc build is blockable. However, are you aware that if it WASN'T, your build would be invincible despite tens of thousands of battles of practice and strategy on my part?
Are you also aware that when you DO hit you do an insane amount of damage that no 95 or under hp build can take for more than 2 turns?
Are you aware that though str bounty hunter have a higher win rate, it takes us a lot longer on average to win a battle?
Are you aware that you could be employing other builds and strategies?
Are you aware that the maximum block rate is only 45% without shadow arts and 55% with?
You're basically coming here with a build that has maybe 50 dex maximum and uses EXCLUSIVELY blockable skills and being mad about blocks? Has it occured to you that maybe its your fault because you have a HUMONGOUS hole in your strategy?




He Who Lurks -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 20:07:23)

^Giras, you're incorrect. The max chance to block is 40%(without Shadow Arts) and 45% which is only applicable with Shadow Arts. I guess that only helps our argument.



DeathGuard -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 20:11:39)

You got chances to block ,yea is true but chances of critting from berseker? hmph.We must balanced mercs [:@].



Soliqe -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/28/2011 20:54:55)

Being that berzerker is essentially a "super skill", it needs a two turn warm up. Changing stun maul is not the issue. It's berzerker.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 7:27:55)

The only thing i know is They are super fast and my ratio decreased by them and now i got same % with str merc

I am slower than Str merc and got same rate so i decided to be STR merc because its imposible to reach their speed :S

Here is what i dont understand i got 106 dex + %6 block and i smoke my oponent the dex difference is more than 80 why still i dont block them :S

Balance ideas:
Maul need 1 turn warmup and %ignore should remove
Berserker need 3 turn warmup like masacre because its stronger than masacre
And if they have +100 str so they always go second not first :S




Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 8:01:28)

@ He who Lurks

Since you are back, could you find my second post on page 1 and answer the questions there? I'm too lazy to cut and paste :P



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 9:27:15)

@Turkish You know how insane you sound? Remove maul % defence ignore? How else do Mercs weaken their opponets defences? Make beseker 3 turn warm up and its stronger then Masscre?Beseker at max does 88% more dmg Masscre at max does 140% more dmg and you think its stronger 0_o???



BlueKatz -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 10:00:53)

A have a suggestion, make all stun skills (Mer BH Mage) need 1 turn warm up



TurkishIncubus -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 10:44:34)

@IsaiahtheMage

1st Mercs dont need weaken their enemies they hit +45 with strike :S

Berserker at max hit %88 atmax + % 45 def ignore with rage + add +120 str :S

those are my balance ideas probably admins will not do 1 of them thats why i will change to merc soon , i dont want to lose time with being uped



8x -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 11:51:58)

quote:

Are you aware that you could be employing other builds and strategies?

Really... Like what? 5 focus, spamming tech, spamming supp? Any other builds that work and got same or better ratio? No.



evil2k8 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 12:10:56)

Really, Berzerk doesn't need a cooldown, health needs to be raised to 3+ per stat so a 40 Crit doesn't near-half your health.



He Who Lurks -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 15:02:39)

quote:

@ He who Lurks

Since you are back, could you find my second post on page 1 and answer the questions there? I'm too lazy to cut and paste :P


I have responded to your second post made within this thread.

quote:

...did you just say that the average strength mercs 'very rarely use maul'? That's completely contrary to the current situation. Maul then Berserk is the most widely used combination for strength mercs. Besides no other stun skill has warm-up, so it would be greatly unfair for one to be implemented for maul, especially since it is also the only blockable stun skill.

And what exactly is the priority of 'build vs classes'? That if one build has the capability to easily defeat other classes, it should be removed? Strength mercs actually have a lower win% than 5-focus mercs and bounty hunters, and support mages. Should all these builds thus be nerfed?

Moreover, using your 'build vs classes' basis, is it really fair to nerf a class just to nerf a certain build within that class?


Me:
quote:

@Helloguy, Why can't we discuss balance without being so disrespectful towards each other? Helloguy, I'm without bias when it comes classes and I don't like to toot my horn, but I have one of the most unique and powerful builds to date in EpicDuel. What makes strength Mercenaries so OP'd is the ability to stun than more than likely have 100% chance to kill. Remember, when your stunned your unable to block.

quote:

...did you just say that the average strength mercs 'very rarely use maul'?



@Silver Sky Magician, I'm sorry for the confusion but by strength Mercenaries I meant Mercenaries with average strength, not necessarily trying to relate to high strength Mercenaries.

@Helloguy, of course because I lose towards them I want to work towards a better solution for all of us, it doesn't make sense to not find a problem within a gaming element, but than suggest a "fix" towards that gaming element.

@Silver Sky Magician, by the priority of builds v. classes, I'm talking about how balance could be greater to classes, than worry about one build that abuses strength to limit. It's obvious that Mercenaries are at an all-time high with strenght builds at the moment and nothing has been done to de-buff them. Smell the coffee and open your eyes. I've been in ED's community for a long-time and I'm smart enough to know that very very very rarely a player has been able to abide to one's logical argument, but I know the staff happen to have their eyes on the forum and it's nice to see them to put my suggestion in-game. I know how to balance EpicDuel as 3 of my suggestions have already been added, 2 of which have dealt with balance.

Your only argument is how one build shouldn't be de-buffed for the enjoyment of other(the other builds/classes of this game). We're trying to balance the game, not break it.

So far, my arguments seem to be the most valid along with several others and those who I feel just show favoritism. Feel free to continue discuss strength abuse with me. In fact, I though of a new signature thanks to you.

~If you have created a solution towards balance, and those who are against your solution simply state that it'd destroy the build in it's entirety, well congrats because it may be working.

Eh, I'll work on it (;.



Soliqe -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/29/2011 17:41:24)

Does anyone agree with me?

Adding one more warm up turn to Berzerker will give players two more turns to kill the mercs. (because it only takes 4 turns to kill them indefinitely, while we currently have 2 turns to get things moving. 3 if you are lucky.)

This forces them to use less strength, and more defense.

Don't edit the stun maul. The stun maul is not the issue.



BlueKatz -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 5:50:48)

I don't agree with adding 1 turn to Zerker, it's USELESS

There just simple 2 problem with STR mer now:
1/ Shocking chance of go first, seriously? It's high!
2/ Stun first turn simple kill ALL build

So if there anything should be done, it's changing first turn rate and making Stun skill have 1 warm up



Goony -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 6:03:27)

I agree BK, just add a one turn warm up to all the stun skills and this will help in 2v2 as well [;)]

Then it is not just the mercs who get nerfed in isolation again [8D]



voidance -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 6:03:45)

No, making Berserker a 2 turn warm makes perfect sense, Because if they do go first and happen to stun you also, you have a chance to survive b4 they can Berserker. BUT then everyones just gonna change to Stun/Double Strike and we are back where we started. So basicly what im saying is, no matter what we do people are gonna try to find the cheapest way possible to win. The best way to handle this is to effect the Attribute itself, when they nerf'd hp it stoped heal loop mages completely, so why not Merc's/Bounty's?



zenix -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 6:06:24)

Nerfing Strength ? In that case i would go back to Multi SHot and 2vs2 ^^ [>:]



BlueKatz -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 6:10:54)

A careful STR mer can simple stand till rage, and zerker + rage is not something fun

Meanwhile if they can't stun first then player can have chance to set up defense, and counter



voidance -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 6:11:16)

Well we all know it will stop the Strength abuse from Merc's and Bounty Hunters, so why not?




Edit:
I wasnt suggesting they do make Berserker a 2 turn warmup, i was basicly saying it would be the best quickfix but we dont need a quickfix we need a perm solution.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 7:47:54)

@ He who Lurks

Okay, maybe I should have cut-and-pasted. It was the third post. Sorry. Here it is.

quote:

@ He who Lurks

I don't feel that you have directly answered my questions above. Could you do so again in addition to the questions below?

What exactly do you think is the problem with strength mercs? Is it their high win percentage, their too-quick kills, or the fact that once stunned, no one has a chance against them?

It's probably the last point, and I think that while most builds may not be able to adapt to the extremely unenviable circumstances, there are some builds that can. 5-focus mercs and high-HP support mages have reported to be able to easily defeat strength mercs. It's a more daunting task for bounty hunters if they cannot block maul, but I think that with high HP, bounty hunters could reflect the success of high-HP support mages in dealing with the strength mercs.

Moreover numerous other builds, as mentioned in my earlier post, have a higher win percentage than strength mercs, and quick kills are merely the defining characteristic of these mercs.

This brings us back to the question: what is the problem with strength mercs?





IsaiahtheMage -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 10:26:57)

@Turkish the STR mercs do only because of high STR.A normal merc might one day come up with a build for it being NON STR.




evil2k8 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 10:52:30)

Doesn't anyone understand HEALTH? Adding a cooldown to berzerk will make mercs back into support abusers THEN, Bounties may endup back to strength, Mages will start complaining of imbalance and unfair play. What I'm saying is putting another cooldown on the Berzerk skill will be pointless - they'll always be ways around. Health is needed because you don't see BIG MMO games with 50 HP at the level cap, It's like DragonFable, 100 HP is at level 1. For the current state of Weapon/Skill damage, Agility needs to be adjusted and MORE HP is needed so big damage can be done with very little complaints of Imbalance.

Anyone understand me now?



P4R4NO1D DR34M3R -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 12:44:29)

All who think that we strenght mercenarys are always lucky have wrong! Some of my battles, all classes, all lvls can block me up to 3,4 times



voidance -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 14:35:30)

@evil2k8
quote:

So basicly what im saying is, no matter what we do people are gonna try to find the cheapest way possible to win. The best way to handle this is to effect the Attribute itself, when they nerf'd hp it stoped heal loop mages completely, so why not Merc's/Bounty's?
I already said this.



PumKing -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/30/2011 16:29:31)

I don't get you guys, strength mercs are not oped, they are actually quite weak. For 2 reasons:
1. The stun strike CAN BE blocked
2. It has incredibly weak defenses,

I've been a str merc myself, but I quit once I went through a 5 loss streek from complete noobs because, my stun strike (at max 40% chanceto stun) didn't go off, I got blocked, because of low dex (which goes into str), AND I was blown away by there shots (these were mages, not even bh's, which I have faced, and are quite the challenge).

The problem is not the need to increase a warm up on a blockable stun (which is why it can go to 40%, AND its low levels start BELOW 30% chance to stun, the basic stun level for the other TWO classes), the problem is, agility and the increased feild medic warm-up, debuffed maged, and gave mercs an edge, agility needs to go, feild medic lowered. Because quite frankly, the bh's are as oped as the mercs, just look at the leader boards, bh's completely own the 1v1 and mercs own the 2v2 board, I switch from being a mage to bh cuz I was sick of losing to noob mercs who abused the artillary and bunker build (poor abused I might add)



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