RE: I Found the Answer (Full Version)

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T.600 -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 7:08:38)

Please don't i worked hard for a good ratio through npcing AND NORMAL BATTLES.



Tiago X -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 13:26:54)

@T.600: Many people will think like that , and you'll be right. Everyone who fought hard will be thinking like this, but if it does get implemented,they'll just get over it.
Overall:Good idea, has ups and downs, but good.



Mohandas Gandhi -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 13:51:27)

@T.600

Most players in this game with good win ratios npc 85 percent of the time.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 14:27:42)

@Mohandas: 85% is based on what proof ?



Sparticus -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 16:16:16)

Angels has a very good idea with a solid amount of thought behind it and excellent reasoning. I would agree with most everything that's been said in favor of this idea. There is no rational against it that makes half as much sense except, and there is always that exception that bugs me.....

We tell our kids its only a game. We don't keep score in T-ball because we don't want anyone to be upset, it just for fun. We end soccer games in a tie even if everyone knows one team outscored the other. We do this as parents so that we will not upset our fragile little children's self confidence. No one wants their child to feel like a loser, be part of a bad team or have a horrible time. It's ruining our children. Not everyone is a winner, not all kids are superstars and not all players are good. If you remove losses from counting it removes the stigma and also the pride.

It's still not a bad idea but I would consider long and hard the message this sends. Is everyone a winner or are the players who actually win the real winners?



Light Stridr -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 16:22:54)

quote:

Is everyone a winner or are the players who actually win the real winners?

Everyone SHOULD feel like a winner.
If lots of players don't, this game has priority issues.



Competition -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 16:49:36)

I do enjoy the competitiveness in the game, and taking out losses could take that away.

EDIT: But this is a really good idea, wouldn't mind it as much.



Tiago X -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 17:54:04)

Sparticus actually has a heck of a point there.
I remenber my lil' bro crying when he lost 12 battles in a row, and then I allowed him to go on my account and he screwed it. Oh well.



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 18:05:56)

We've all had that "unlucky" streak, we all know ratio is what we care about. But if it is removed we all get chances to be a great player, by wins! I believe this is ultimately the best balance solution ever thought of and highly encourage it to be implemented. *Looks at Sparts post* Perfectly said, I hope you can return with further posts on this subject.

Open your eyes the player who prides herself in ratio is willing to give it up to make the game better. I do think that there should be a ratio on LBs because the ratio has a factor when there is a tying number.



goldslayer1 -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 18:14:57)

@ed prince of shadow
it can also be used to find how many losses that person had.
not the exact number but pretty close.



He Who Lurks -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 18:25:39)

At first sight, this idea actually sounds pretty good...yup, no evident problem here...I guess that why the problem isn't pretty much clear here.

Problem 1: If there were no 1vs1 or 2vs2 records in the game, than how would we give out the daily badges?

Problem 2(much more clear): Faction recruiting would become majorly worse as no recruiter would be able to see the hidden record. This could pretty much cause confusion.

Problem 3: How exactly would not showing your record help the game in any way?

quote:

f we were to remove our losses the players would be free to pursue any build that they wish


That may be the truth but what about those who'd still fight competetively? Regardless of their record being shown or not? Better build=better record, better record=more credits. Why would I accept a job that's a bit more private, but pays lower money? In case you didn't get that metaphor, why would I rather loss often for privacy, rather than win(more credits) for less privacy?

Not sure if I've provided the best counter-argument here.



Shadronica -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 19:02:31)

I think that the daily and all time 1v1 and 2v2 and faction leaderboards would still have to show the win/loss % so that players would still have an incentive to hit the leaderboards and display some prowess as respected duelists.

Other than that have the option to turn off your losses if you wish. This would definitely help a lot.

In regard to He Who Lurks question about recruiting you could ask the player to turn his losses on for you to view before recruiting or simply see that the player plays regularly enough that he has plenty of wins anyway you would have both options to make a choice.

This would make a great deal of sense to me. Alleviating the pressure of such a performance oriented game and allowing a lot of players to just have fun but still retaining the competitiveness for those who seek it.

It should be a simple feature for our dev's to implement. So I see it as a win/win all round.



Angels Holocaust -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 19:04:41)

Lets stay on focus my friends, I want to get rid of losses completely not hide them. We can calculate our win ratios by ourselves.



goldslayer1 -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 19:07:18)

even if u show ur ratios. u can still calculate how many losses they have.



The Joker X -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/5/2011 22:22:15)

Ive been thinking and if we get rid of losses, then wouldnt we also have to get rid of total battle fought as that can still be used as a way to see how many losses a person has? Maybe the losses should be completely taken out, and the number of battles fought can be optional with a setting.



xxmirxx -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 7:07:04)

I HATE THIS IDEA.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 7:27:31)

If they do this I will rage quit and ask for a refund i worked hard for my good win loss ratio over 1400 wins only over 500 loses if not less or a little more. I be so angry if they got rid of it.



Matgon -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 8:36:27)

Wow.... you actually found it O_O


Then we could not count NPC's wins to register in our wins and bam!



Smackie El Frog -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 9:48:36)

No ways! For one thing it is very difficult to have a great 2v2 win loss record. I worked very hard to earn my 3,061 wins and 771 losses in 2v2. I would never want to lose that. For one it shows that you know what you are doing and secondly it is a great way to rank players. Even though this might be good for 1v1 beacuse of all the NPC fighters, but 2v2 is still legit. NOT SUPPORTED


Our wins define us and so does our losses.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 10:07:38)

^

There have been several suggestions to improve Angel's original idea. A relevant one to IsaiahtheMage, Smackie El Frog and possibly xxmirxx (though I have no idea why xxmirxx disapproves of Angel's idea-you could make it clearer) is that there could be an option to hide your loss record. If you are proud of your win-loss record, then you could simply choose not to hide it.

Angel seems to disapprove of the option suggestion, but she has not stated why. Could you do so, Angel? I feel that this suggestion would please both those with bad win-loss records and those with win-loss records they are proud of, as both parties can choose whether or not they would want to hide their loss records.

Our wins and our losses may define us, but they should not be all. Everyone should be allowed to be viewed on a clean slate, especially if they are players who have grown from being inexperienced and bad at EpicDuel to good players. Not everyone has the time and the will to rack up a number of wins sufficient to eclipse their losses. A person with a less-than-good win-loss record should not be stereotyped as a bad, or even worse, useless player, a mere burden especially in 2 vs 2. Since it is far harder to remove the stereotype, I think it is reasonable to remove the thing that causes this stereotype.

At the same time, with the suggestions to improve on Angel's idea, those with true skill and will can still be credited, as they can still proudly display their painstakingly crafted win-loss record. It's a win-win situation, and I fully support this suggestion.

EDIT: Off topic: 100th post :D



Wraith -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 10:10:54)

Approved. My 1262/300+ win/loss on 1vs1 is terrible. So is my 800/560? win/loss on 2vs2.



Zean Zapple -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 12:17:50)

Angels Holocaust isa genius. If I remember correctly, Angels Holocaust and I were a team on trying to protect Heal Looping, which if this was implemented then WE WOULD HAVE SAVED IT!

Angel, even though your glumness sorta makes me wish you would just quit... I still absolutely love your ideas! Now if you only had come up with this 6 months ago[;)] PMing to Nightwraith as you're reading this.


~Zean



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 14:29:23)

@Silver Great Idea that way you can choose to show your win/loss ratio or not to show it that is great. Yes I am proud of my wins and I used my money to get those wins I dont want to throw it all away. So that way there be 3 options 1 Show win/loss ratio 2 Show just wins but no loses 3 Dont show win/loss ratio that way we all be happy. ^^ [:)] [:D] [;)]



Angels Holocaust -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 14:50:21)

The real purpose of this idea was to eliminate our losses from the game. Hiding them does not solve the problem. It's like sweeping dust under a rug, it doesn't eliminate the problem it just covers it. If we do indeed decide to hide our losses, nothing would be changed, people will still be sensitive of their ratios.



He Who Lurks -> RE: I Found the Answer (4/6/2011 15:20:13)

Let me try to interpret what Angel Holocaust is basically stating(I'm sorry if I haven't captured your vision). The point of Angel Holocaust's idea is that with no record of 1vs1 or 2vs2 battles, all players will be free to pursue their dream build, not worrying about their win/loss ratio. However, when you allow an option to hide it, this would only apply to players who don't want their record shown, and for those who do want their record shown, they'd still go for those "OP'd" builds. Enabling an option to hide your wins/losses doesn't nearly have the same effect as erasing wins/losses from the game.

Now, there's something else at work here. Whilst many of the persons who have stated their opinion on this idea are not against it, what may be their prime objective for doing so? They're those who wouldn't show their record because of their "horrible" win/loss ratio and those who are just in favor of balance or both. They may be many other reasons behind it but I'm not quite reluctant to agree to this idea.

quote:

Hiding them does not solve the problem. It's like sweeping dust under a rug, it doesn't eliminate the problem it just covers it.


Ironically, this is the same thing your idea is suggesting. Instead of covering up the balance issues like EpicDuel has been doing for a while, we should work towards a way to lessen the problem. This idea isn't even 100% foolproof, no not even close. What about those players who'd still use OP'd builds? You cannot say balance has just been "fixed" after suggesting such an idea that requires the removal of such a huge element of the game.

In my opinion, this idea would be great, as an option for those who wish to not have their records shown to the public, but as a balance suggestion I'd say nay.



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