RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (Full Version)

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veneeria -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 21:23:46)

well.. even before the update, i never had problems with them.. i even had perfect kills against them (kill them with full hp) and it didn't change much after the update. But that must be because i am bounty hunter.. I wonder how techmages got along with them...



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 21:25:52)

@vene
dex monkey?



Wiseman -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 21:30:05)

First off this release wasn't supposed to just nerf strength mercs, it was supposed to make ALL extreme builds of ALL classes less effective. Strength merc was the most common, however there are some super high support mages out there, super high dex bounties, and super high strength bounties that use smoke + cheap shot builds. Each of these types of builds should be less effective now, and they are, however not by much. If they add a few more levels to the diminishing returns then all of those builds will be far less effective, but not useless, and no mater what they do stun zerk mercs will never die completely (unless they remove stun from the game). I happen to know for a fact that +5 focus mercs with about 88 strength can still effectively stun zerk, the build is a bit slower however it can and will still two turn SOME players if they have low enough defense or resistance or lack good armor. You don't have to be extreme to successfully stun zerk, all that does is speed up the process, and this release in my opinion was mainly meant to slow down extreme builds, not make them useless.

Mercenaries have not been nerfed or buffed, everyone in the game was hit with the same effects, the only difference is some players are able to adapt faster then others to the changes. Shaniqua once said "Evolve or die", what that means is to stay one step ahead of the masses, if a build becomes popular, make a counter for that build so you win most battles. Eventually your build will become the new popular build (since the popular build users that you beat will consider your build overpowered cause it beats them), and once that happens, find a counter for your own build and beat it. Repeat this process every time the builds change up and you will always be ahead of the game and will always win more then everyone else, its that simple "Evolve or die".



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 23:11:05)

@jegaggin('s first post): Funny, despite all of those Merc Nerfs, Mercs are still the most powerful Class in the game. After all, you guys don't have half of your Skill Tree restricted by a Class Specific Weapon Requirement [>:]

After this update, I think Strength Mercs have been Nerfed... but not enough. Beserker can literally kill someone in one turn (Thankfully, it has a one turn Warmup... though that doesn't matter if you're stunned by Maul...)

As of now, I think the real problem is the rising number of 5 Focus Tech Mercs. They're Tanks AND they can do heavy damage -- that's what I call overpowered.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 23:13:59)

quote:

As of now, I think the real problem is the rising number of 5 Focus Tech Mercs. They're Tanks AND they can do heavy damage -- that's what I call overpowered.

true not that OP tho. i mean theres nothing better than tech tank with HP regen after every robot hit.
or just 88 strength 84 dex and 125 hp on a BH going 90%+



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 23:27:22)

@Above: I'm not sure I understood what you said, but a Tank Build capable of three VERY powerful attacks (Gamma Bot Attack/Special, Bunker Buster, not to mention that only the later requires Energy) definitely should be nerfed.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 23:29:04)

@above
whats the point of having a robot if they will be blocked by BH?



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 23:44:11)

What is it with all Mercs claiming that Bounty Hunters Block everything? They don't, and in my opinion, Shadow Arts is nothing more than a waste of Skill Points. Blocks happen due to chance; you can't rely on them.

That's why I switched to a Poison Build on my Bounty Hunter



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 23:49:37)

@lectrix
most BH use smoke
high dex, and good SA
if they smoke u, their block rate is probaby 45% and with shadow arts it (seeing how alot of them use 6 SA or max) i would say 51%-55% block rate. thats alot
lets see,
BH goes first (and with low support) and smokes u
tech merc uses robots *gets blocked*
BH strikes
tech merc uses robot *gets blocked again*
BH strike
tech merc decicdes to use unblockables

by the time the smoke is almost gone, the tech merc hp will be around 20-40 then bam the bH hits with a mass.
and they are dead.
u see why they are OP?
despite the fact that we have hybrid they still easily beat tech mercs.
and same goes for strength merc they also block them alot.



jegaggin -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/10/2011 23:59:01)

actually i can still stunzerk with 128 str. Bh's dex builds have not been nerfed at all because chance for blocking has nt been nerfed -.-



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 0:12:13)

@Goldslayer: Now wait a minute.

First of all, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there's a cap on the Blocking Rate. IIRC, the maximum chance to Block is around 40%.

Second, why would a low Support Bounty Hunter go first? Usually, the Class with higher Support goes first, and 5 Focus Tech Mercs tend to have more Support than Bounty Hunters with Smoke Builds.

Third, how often do Bounty Hunters block two consecutive Bot Attacks? Like I said, Blocks happen due to chance. If we assume that both Gamma Bot attacks are successful, then the Merc gains the upper hand.

And finally, while Smoke Screen increases a Bounty Hunter's Physical Damage and bonus to hit, Hybrid Armor gives Mercs a guaranteed +13 Defense. Add to that the fact that 5 Focus Tech Mercs have insane Resistance, and Bounty Hunters aren't as powerful as you think they are.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 0:27:28)

@lectrix
the highest block rate in the game is 45% but with shadow arts u can go over that %
secondly i have seen BH block 4 consecutive bots.
and BH with low support (aswell as strengh mercs) go first most of the time. (and i have 80 support)

quote:

Add to that the fact that 5 Focus Tech Mercs have insane Resistance, and Bounty Hunters aren't as powerful as you think they are.

and finally, how come i still see BH with 88 strength 84 dex 125 hp still going 90%+
i see BH go from 20 ~30 hp to full hp just because they can block and with their strength regain from bloodlust.
how is that not OP?
thats basically a BH HP looper, with high damage.
also people make a big deal about hybrid but when we get smoke hybrid doesn't help us hit the BH more does it?
it helps the BH block more.
so in the end, blocking is the best choice when it comes to fighting from what now people say the most OP damage in the game, robots.
if u can cut out that damage its guaranteed win.

also about BH not being as powerfull as i think they are, how about u try being a strength merc or a tech merc for urself and see the arguement on BOTH sides of the conflict.
see now mages are lucky, they dont have to deal with people calling them OP.



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 0:39:11)

@Above: For the third time, Blocks happen because of chance.

I've seen Support Mercs double Crit with Artillery Strike many times. Blocks and Crits (as well as many other factors in this game) all depend on luck.

And why would a Bounty Hunter with low Support go first "most of the time"? That doesn't make sense (unless the Bounty Hunter is a lower Level than you).

With my Tech Mage, I feel that 5 Focus Tech Mercs are much more powerful. With Malfunction, it's easy to cut through a Bounty Hunter's defenses. But trying to put a dent in a 5 Focus Tech Merc is like trying to smash down a brick wall. The fact that Tech Mages don't have any Defense/Resistance ignoring Skills (except for Supercharge, and we all know how useful that Skill is) doesn't help either.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 0:44:46)

quote:

I've seen Support Mercs double Crit with Artillery Strike many times. Blocks and Crits (as well as many other factors in this game) all depend on luck.

And why would a Bounty Hunter with low Support go first "most of the time"? That doesn't make sense (unless the Bounty Hunter is a lower Level than you).

so let me get this straight, their blocking is luck, but them going first isn't?
personaly if i have 2.5 more support than u, ur chance of going first should be 10%

u can ask beastmo, the other day he was using str merc, we fought atleast 5 times he went first for sure more than 4 of the times when he had 27 support and i had 80.

another thing, its like jega said, the chance of block hasn't been nerfed but the stats have.



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 0:53:48)

I figured that the chance to go first isn't exactly determined by luck, because lower Level Players usually have a better chance of going first (or is that considered luck as well..?)

Anyway, if a Player with the same Level as you got to go first, then that's nothing more than bad luck.

And even with the recent Stat Nerf, Stat Spamming Builds are still quite formidable. Without a good chance to Block Players like Strength Mercs, what chance do other Builds have?



jegaggin -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 0:55:48)

bounty hunters have been buffed again! blocking is a huge part of their strategy!



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 0:59:50)

quote:

I figured that the chance to go first isn't exactly determined by luck, because lower Level Players usually have a better chance of going first (or is that considered luck as well..?)

dont see how thats lucky if example ur lvl 33
and the player ur fightign is lvl 28-30
the chance of them going first is 100%
thats because its made that way. (unless they have crappy comps and lagg making their turn skip)
however i still dont see how blocking more than half the time is "luck" or going first MORE than half the time is "luck"



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 1:09:46)

Luck: "Success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 1:28:27)

@lectrix
well gues what buddy
quote:

Evolve or die

u wanna know why people still use strength merc?
because they know that there are still people out there who cant outsmart them.
not to mention str merc are fast killers (which alot of people like fast kills)



jegaggin -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 1:31:51)

and its one of the few ways that a merc can win the 1v1 championship either support or str.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 1:35:05)

@jega
yup because other types of build just take too long, the one i have currently does 35 wins an hour 40 at the most
and on hours after reset its like 30.
so lets say 35 on average
35 X 15 hours = 525
there are people in this game who average that much wins but they do it in less than 11 hours.



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 1:46:51)

And in today's world of EpicDuel, Tech Mages have been forced to evolve again and again, to outsmart Strength Mercs, Support Mercs, and 5 Focus Tech Mercs. Why? Tech Mages lack the "easy Skills" like Beserker, Artillery strike, and Bunker Buster, that Mercs constantly take for granted.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 1:58:04)

@lectrix
and u think tech mages dont have problems with BH
seeing how BH can heal loop just as effectively i dont see how they dont have trouble against BH.
and also BH also have easy skills.
if im correct massacre does more damage than berserker.
and we have to use 50% more strengh.
so with ur mass u do more damage than berzerker at 80 strength while we need 120 to deal decent damage.
u only thing its OP because when ur stun (probably because u also have low support) u receive 10% more damage.
making a 12 12 39 berserker into a 15 15 48



Lectrix -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 2:05:00)

Massacre has a three turn Warmup and uses up more Energy than Beserker... also, Strength Mercs can kill you in two turns.

You're also forgetting that Bounty Hunters use up a turn (and Energy) to apply Smoke Screen (which improves with Technology, not Strength).



goldslayer1 -> RE: Strenght Mercenaries Haven't Been Nerfed, They've Been Buffed (4/11/2011 2:07:41)

@lectrix
a turn that does damage, and since they go first alot it gives them the advantage of blocking more the next turn.
and our stun improves with skill points not as an added extra bonus to extra block.



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