RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (Full Version)

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Thylek Shran -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 13:29:16)

quote:

and thats what noobs who dont understand that mercs have no def/res debuff, call being a stat abuser.
why dont u look at 5 focus BH. it easily beats heal loopers, all it takes them is a simple lvl 1 energy shield and use robots to regain their hp back up.

Maxed Reflex Boost and Technician often only give around +10 def/res
now after the stat nerf. This does cost 1 turn, energy and will fade while
Hybrid Armor is there from the beginning. No turn cost, no energy cost,
no fade. Mercs can even counter Malfunction and Smoke Screen easily
whenever they want which makes Hybrid Armor even more usefull.
Even with the effective stat buff benefits, Technician and Reflex Boost
canīt catch up with this.

I havenīt mentioned yet that Blood Shield is way more usefull than
Assimilation and maybe even Shadow Arts which can be bypassed by
using sidearm, aux and dmg skills.


quote:

KoO can't be on ED, they just can't. Players can tell you the problems, and with all the complaint threads they certainly do, IT'S JUST THAT YOU HAVE TO LISTEN!

KoO have to be active players of course. Also simple math would help.
And yes I also think that the staff namely Titan and Nightwraith donīt
listen enough to the player base. Of course there are alot bad
suggestions there too so its hard to find the good ones. I made so many
well thought balance suggestions but so less got accepted. One was that
hybrid armor is now 1 point more weak above skill level 3 but I made
this suggestions maybe a year ago. My suggestion was to reduce it by
2-3 points I think not only by 1.



bighobbo -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 16:26:49)

You know, I do wonder how many battles have the devs done in EpicDuel. 1,000? 10,000? 50,000? 100,000?

I do understand that the devs have "other" accounts.

I mean, if you think about it, there are players out there who's played tens of thousands of battles. They've been through everything, they know what it feels like. I understand that the devs created the game and all, but I honestly think that there are better people to help balance the game.

The reason why I said that it's because sometimes, the devs release some very weird "balance" stuff. No offense, but it certainly makes me think that they do not know what is going on in the game. I don't know if other players think the same way.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 16:36:20)

quote:

Maxed Reflex Boost and Technician often only give around +10 def/res
now after the stat nerf. This does cost 1 turn, energy and will fade while
Hybrid Armor is there from the beginning. No turn cost, no energy cost,
no fade. Mercs can even counter Malfunction and Smoke Screen easily
whenever they want which makes Hybrid Armor even more usefull.
Even with the effective stat buff benefits, Technician and Reflex Boost
canīt catch up with this.

yeah except only one problem.
BH is more OP than tech mage because it can increase both energy shield and reflex boost with 1 stat, while tech mages need dex or support. thats why 5 focus BH with energy and reflex is so OP.
mercs on the other hand only 1 stable defense or res, and cant be raised thru any stats.
basicaly saying a BH can make a str merc with 100+ str hit 3s if he had energy shield that gave him 30+ res points
and its possible thru 87+ support
and and did i mention they will most likely block anyways?
as for tech mages they make str bounty hits pretty dam low. like 3-5s with a defense matrix that does 30+s aswell.
but when a merc gets malf or smoke, u still hit pretty high.
and with technician u increase bot damage, and with reflex u increase block, stun damage and chance, u get a 15% energy return for any damage u take while under reflex boost. basicaly a reroute but with more block, tanking and damage capabilities.



frogbones -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 16:58:26)

There is absolutely NO reason why anyone should not support this idea. Although it's not a new one (I and others have made multiple threads over the past year or two), ED having a KoO is way overdue. It would benefit everyone and prove a more efficient way of balancing the game.

I mean, look how long it's taken Titan and NW to sort of understand stat balance. They either don't play the game enough, don't understand stats, or are too busy to figure it out---either way, all the evidence points the necessity of ED having a balance team.



Gold -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 17:03:37)

You know, AQ became a much better game as soon as the KoO was founded. I'm sure the same can happen to EpicDuel (which I used to call EpicFail or EpicLag :P).



helloguy -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 17:06:13)

And if this were to be implemented releases will be coming out way faster without delays and such how the job is distributed among many people then the debs could do other things



Thylek Shran -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 17:07:41)

quote:

BH is more OP than tech mage because it can increase both energy shield and reflex boost with 1 stat, while tech mages need dex or support. thats why 5 focus BH with energy and reflex is so OP.

Support BH is not overpowered because when he has high support he will
lack dex and tech for defense. A good basic defense from tech and dex is
more worth than from a buff which will fade in 3 or 4 turns. TM has beside
Defense Matrix also Malfunction on support which is more usefull than 2 buffs.
Mercs have 3 class skills on support: Field Commander, Artillery Strike and
Intimidate. So Mercs can benefit the most from support and they have their
defense on the passive Hybrid Armor.

Robots are generally overpowered this isnt only counting for BH.
Yes, technician does increase bot dmg but most free players like me dont
have a bot. This isnt a problem of technician, it is a problem of robots.
Tech can do alot other powerfull things just take a look at Surgical Strike
and Bunker Buster. It also helps a merc to become a very powerfull tank
and also a very offensive killing machine at the same time !
Mercs still can abuse every stat but dex because they dont have a single
skill on dex ! I already mentioned this problem and made a suggestion to
solve this balance problem in the old ED forum but not much has happened.
5 merc skills now have a dex requirement but thats not a solution.



Firewallblast -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 17:23:20)

Dude listen to goldslayer mercs are not OP wow we have 3 skills that improve with support. Who cares? Yes we have 3 skills but support mercs only use Artillery Strike and maybe sometimes Intimidate ( blame our only debuff skill real nice). Ur probably saying well str mercs use Field Commander but they dont have enough support to actualy do good buff. Yea us mercs have to tough it out wow +12 is really a lot of defense and resistance pretty good buff and passive ( our only passive). Every class except merc has two passives i think that pretty good def or res up compensates for two passives think of it as a passive giving us +6 and the other giving us +6. Also Hybrid losses value the higher lvl u are sure it helps but not by much.



Shadronica -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 19:03:11)

Picking on mercs is NOT a solution to balance.

Mercs have hybrid armor because they have no other defense/resist boosts therefore hybrid armor should NOT be messed around. Bounties and mages can boost both their defense and resistance to accomodate their build while still be able to nerf the other players build (malfunction and smoke). Yes mercs can intimidate but intimidate is useless against both the bot attacks and aux therefore the bounties or mages have the chance of 3 good attacks even while they are intimidated. Even strength mercs who have been intimidated can still use the assault bot to fix intimidate.
So effectively intimidate is useful only against players who do not have either a gamma bot or assault bot. So hybrid is still the only way a merc has to counteract the other classes nerfs. Just leave hybrid alone I say.

Mages after this latest update are no better off than they were before the latest bout of balance updates. At least after the first balance update the shields seem to work like they should ... now they are back to being hardly effective especially the defense matrix.

Bounties are least affected by all of the updates and its understandable since their attacks on our dex with the ability to block and deflect makes only one attack to be effective against them and that is the aux. Think about it ... only 1 unblockable effective attack on a bounty.

Common sense can see that the only easy class to be is a bounty. No wonder everyone is considering becoming a bounty hunter or have already changed to it.

As for a Knights of Order ... well they will only be as good as the people who are in it. Lets face it ... I have seen some ridiculous suggestions at times not to mention that some players get one eyed about their own favourite class and are totally ignorant to the needs of the other classes.

IF such a team were to be implemented I would be most concerned about the selection criteria. So far there is so very very few that I would trust to make an intelligent, impartial and honest assessment on balance for all the classes.

I am not talking about who YOU think is a good enough player to be on the team and I am not talking about who is the best at coding etc. I am talking about so very few players on this game that can actually make a wise assessment on multi class requirements.



Zean Zapple -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/18/2011 19:03:13)

I'm fine with debuffing Massacre, mainly because I am not one of those Bounties who uses it [:D]

By the way this thread is so off topic right now [:D]


~Zean



Thylek Shran -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 1:18:31)

quote:

Bounties are least affected by all of the updates and its understandable since their attacks on our dex with the ability to block and deflect makes only one attack to be effective against them and that is the aux. Think about it ... only 1 unblockable effective attack on a bounty.

Your are so wrong because BH took the most benefits from focus before the nerf.
Before the nerf my BH was stronger than my mage (who has better items), now
my mage is much stronger compared to my BH. I havent changed the builds much.
So once again BH are on the loose and the weakest class i say.

Only 1 unblockable effective attack vs BH ? Not every BH has maxed Shadow Arts
and there are still sidearm, aux and dmg skills like Bunker Buster left to harm them.
That makes at least 2-3 effective attacks that can bypass Shadow Arts but i already
mentioned that here.

I really hope that there will be a KoO team that can solve all this balance issues
because i also dont think that the staff can solve this. They try now since 2 years
and so I got the impression that they not really know what they are doing regarding
balance. Maybe because they lack ingame experience and their updates are to
much orientated on making money instead of really balancing the game.

To compensate those balance issues players should be able to change their class
for free. Retraining should be free too.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 1:24:26)

quote:

Support BH is not overpowered because when he has high support he will
lack dex and tech for defense. A good basic defense from tech and dex is
more worth than from a buff which will fade in 3 or 4 turns. TM has beside
Defense Matrix also Malfunction on support which is more usefull than 2 buffs.
Mercs have 3 class skills on support: Field Commander, Artillery Strike and
Intimidate. So Mercs can benefit the most from support and they have their
defense on the passive Hybrid Armor.

dude i think u forget most BH use around 87 support with 5 focus. and have decent or should i say well above decent tanking capabilities.
not only that, they can easily beat heal loopers.
why?
because the more hp u have, the more they gain with bloodlust.
thats why heal looping fails these days again 5 focus BH.



megakyle777 -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 1:41:51)

And THIS off topicness is why a KoO style team is needed.[;)]



The Galin Killer -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 1:54:59)

I agreee Kyle. The playerbase needs to be able to decide about nerfs.
We can't decide which class is better half the time. Some say it's Mercs, some BHs.
Of course, the matter of WHO would be in the KoO would be one of the hardest questions.
The team is extremely small. They can't do what bigger teams do. They can't spend years working on balance while another team releases content and story.
So, maybe supported, depending on who joins the KoO.



megakyle777 -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 6:55:23)

Wow, this is a really controversial topic isn't it?

And The Galin Killer is right. We need a KoO style team to decideon a standard and stick to it.



Fay Beeee -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 7:15:58)

quote:

megakyle777
Member


And THIS off topicness is why a KoO style team is needed.


We have forum mods to sort 'off topic' threads.
Or are you saying that KoO would also roam the forums?



megakyle777 -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 7:18:55)

I did not mean Off Topicness in general, rather the subject of the off topicness, which was, as usual, balance. Which only served to prove my point here.[;)]



Fay Beeee -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 7:23:19)

Then I misunderstood you, sorry.
While I accept your right to put you point of view across. I do not accept that this would be good for a game such as this. It is nothing like the other Artix game (which is why I like it)

So we will have to agree to disagree I think.
Sorry



jegaggin -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 7:53:00)

couldnt they become super evil or something and TAKE OVER THE WORLD >_<



megakyle777 -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 7:57:33)

The KoO are staff. If they abused their power they would be sacked. And it's worked without incident over in AQ.[;)]



Thylek Shran -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 8:05:06)

Its not offtopic. The examples should show you why KoOs would be helpfull.
They did some great work in AQ and so they could do here. In AQ there was
always the discussion about the power between mage and warrior builds and
they was very unbalanced before the KoO handled the problem.



megakyle777 -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 8:12:12)

Oh, I get that it makes a good example of the need for a KoO. I say so myself in fact. It just seemed like it was gonna turn into a debate on which was better or worse and i wanted to avoid that.[;)]



Tiago X -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 9:51:59)

Understandable, Kyle comes from DF(everything has about the same power there. Except DMK :o) and then he hops into ED and watches our struggle with balance. I agree with him, and with some other forumites, KoO wold be a nice implemention, but us , the ED players, have a better way to deal with unbalance. Complain 8D



megakyle777 -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 9:56:22)

Ir does indeed seem like a bit of a struggle, I know I tried to make several Story Threads and they just got eaten up by all the balance ones LOL. I just thought I would try something that might be more help then complaints each time a Balance Update is done.[;)]



Mordred -> RE: Is a Knights of Order style team needed? (4/19/2011 10:03:03)

Well, I think a KoO team for ED would be wonderful. Varium items make the game run in the sense that they've become necessary to avoid getting nommed by people with Varium items. And it's a serious issue. Now, before you whine that I and a KoO would nerf all of the Varium items, the KoO of AQ generally feel that you aren't allowed to nerf Z-Token items(Varium items equivalent). Thus, all of the free items would get seriously buffed so that Varium items do not decide the battle, but merely put it in your favor.



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