RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (Full Version)

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Yugiew -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 11:50:33)

Sure, why not?



Sageofpeace -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 12:48:18)

Always complaining about mercenary been OPe WHEN ALL THE CLASSES have away to take the energy. AND MERCENARY WITH NO ENERGY ARE USELESS



Light Stridr -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 13:02:33)

quote:

Always complaining about mercenary been OPe WHEN ALL THE CLASSES have away to take the energy. AND MERCENARY WITH NO ENERGY ARE USELESS

Did you not read the last page?

Most mercs are smart enough to add extra points to counter asim and reduce effectiveness of EMP.
Their multi is by far the most powerful.
Str mercs don't need energy, it just speeds things up.

oh, and answer this:
Why are there so many mercs in 2v2?



Sageofpeace -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 13:04:15)

lets see a bounty only need a level one emp to take 3/4 energy



Light Stridr -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 13:06:40)

quote:

lets see a bounty only need a level one emp to take 3/4 energy

Show us a feasible build to take away 40+ energy with a level 1 EMP.



Jacktaz -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 15:37:25)

quote:

lets see a bounty only need a level one emp to take 3/4 energy

Are you serious!?
a bounty would need to put all tech points to make that happen just another merc jumping to stupid conclusions...



Cookielord12 -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 15:58:00)

adding to the multi argument- artillery strike is the only multi to require support which increases, first turn, crit, deflect, rage rate, reduces being stunned which is by far the most useful stat out of tech (energy resistance, robot), dex (physical defense and blocks) and sup. when have you seen 100+ technology mages and 100+ dex bounties? (sometimes with shields but the builds can be easily countered)

lets compare mercs with massive support buff:
artillery strike
auxillary (not really a skill but still a major weapon)
field medic
field commander
intimidate

mages with massive technician buff:
robot
plasma bolt
plasma rain

bounties with massive dex buff:
multi shot
stun grenade


already if you are sup merc you buff an extra 2 moves over mages and 3 moves over bounties, then you add the 10% ignore defences add up to: OVERPOWERED

my point made



bighobbo -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 16:00:13)

I don't even know how this is still a discussion. Mercs are overpowered in 2v2. There shouldn't be any arguments about this due to the fact that it is so very

obvious. Anyone who plays 2v2 and plays it constantly knows that Mercs have a very big advantage in 2v2. It just shows how absolutely clueless the devs are

about what's going on ingame.



5rr5 -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/10/2011 16:19:40)

Merc is nothing without their Hybrid and Multi.



Lectrix -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 0:31:25)

@Above: What does Hybrid Armor have to do with this discussion. It's just a passive Skill.

quote:

I don't even know how this is still a discussion.

Right, I don't know either. There is (or should be) nothing to discuss.

The time for lies is over. Every Player KNOWS the truth: 2v2 Mercs are Overpowered. There is an overwhelming number of Mercs in 2v2. Numbers don't lie. If Mercs prefer to get a few more wins at the cost of Balance, then they're just being selfish. I'm disgusted at the lack of Balance in 2v2, and I'm sure every non-Merc feels the same way. This needs to end, NOW.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 1:50:38)

click my screen shot below this is my noob bh she has -43 emp and just 80 tech dont say that bh cant do -40+ emp they actually can with just 80 tech. having extra energy means the hve lesser support lesser support= weaker arty= weaker aux. energy booster? they waste a turn doing that. Btw my bh is just lvl 25 and she just have 80 tech and she can do -43 emp. 80 tech is that so hard to get it is easy to get 80 tech with gun aux sword and armor enhnacements so do not say that it is impossible for a bh to do -43 emp. so idk y bh are not doing 2v2 when they can esily kill mercs in 2v2.

http://i56.tinypic.com/14kjuw8.png

@ cookielord12

comparing multi of all classes do not cut it. bh dun just use their multi in 2v2. 2v2 does not= must use multi. u must compare each stat with the skills which improve with it. eg a merc bunker buster improves with tech so u compare it with a bh emp because emp also improve with tech.

lets compare the other stats

tech abusing

BH
1) strong emp
2) strong smoke
3) strong robot
total:3

Merc
1) strong surgical strike
2) strong bunker buster
3) strong robot
total:3

Mage
1) strong plasmabolt
2) strong plama rain
3) strong robot
total:3

str abusing

BH
1) strong strike
2) strong cheapshot
3) strong mass
4) strong gun
5) strong poison
total:5


Merc
1) strong maul
2) strong atom smasher
3) strong strike
4) strong gun
5) strong zerk
6) strong double strike
total:6

Mages
1) strong bulgeon
2) strong gun
3) strong strike
4) effective assimilation
total:4

dex abusing

BH
1) strong stun granade
2) strong multi shot
3) higher chance of blocking
4) higher % of blockable skill to land
total:4

Merc
1) higher chance of blocking
2) higher % of blockable skill to land
total:2

Mages
1) higher chance of blocking
2) higher % of blockable skill to land
3) strong overload
4) strong super charge( u can actually not count this because sc really stinks)
5) strong technition
total:5

support abusing

BH
1) strong aux
2) higher chance of starting first
3) higher crit rates
4) higher deflection rates
5) strong reflex boost
6) strong energy bubble
7) good field medic
total:7

Merc
1)artillery strike
2)auxillary
3)field medic
4)field commander
5)intimidate
6)higher chance of starting first
7) higher crit rates
8) higher deflection rates
Total:8

Mage
1)higher chance of starting first
2) higher crit rates
3) higher deflection rates
4) strong field medic
5) high def matrix
6) strong malf
7) strong aux
Total:7

Grand total

BH:3+5+4+7=19
Merc:3+6+2+8=19
mages:3+4+5+7=19

basically all clases have 19 points and no passive were added every1 has thier strong points and weak points. merc are good in 2v2 but that does not mean they are oped there are ways to beat them. And no u do not need any form of luck to beat the merc. EMP kill mercs. high support and high malf kill mercs because some of them do not have assult bot. 2v2 is random anything can happen there. 2v2 is not about the build u have it is about you and your partner. and ain this topic about getting people bh and mages to play 2v2 not about merc being oped or not. A merc without energy is like a bird without wings. they cant fly away. all they can do is strike and occasional zooka here and there. a mage can gain enegy when they dun have energy and a bh can gain health. BTw hybrid armor is weak at higher lvls. bludlust improve at higher lvls so does reroute and deadly aim.so stop saying a certain class is oped or uped because of blah blah blah all classes are balanced now IMO.


















BlueKatz -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 1:52:06)

Here's something about EMP vs Multi

1/ You need a lot of Tech to increase EMP, meanwhile, Multi is Physical attack
2/ You can EMP them, Mer will use Boosters (I started thread a while ago and all Mer is like "yeah, we need Booster, we use it"). They can easily Aux (first turn with their support) Booster Booster and Multi (They still abuse perfectly their Aux with Support stat). Also They tent to have extra MP for Healing and having 50+ or 67+ EMP is...
3/ I didn't test but Tech abuse for EMP like other stat abuse is harder
4/ Chance to get 2 Multi Mer is 2vs2 is very high, but chance to get 2 BH in 2vs is low, and chance to get 2 BH with enough EMP is VERY LOW



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 1:57:47)

trying to get more non var bh at lower lvls to use emp. most of them were shocked by my bh. when i emped them. we need to start by teaching the low lvls wat is emp and how do we use emp.



MirageD -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 6:35:36)

quote:

there not enuf bounties in 2v2 because the bounties prefer 1v1 because 1v1 is easy does not depend on your partner and it all depends on yourself. basically they rather go 1v1 than waste thier time in 2v2. most great bh 2v2 like segaman,phalanx,velvet,a new guy name silent. have high emp because they know it kills mercs and most of the other classes too. i m sure u do not even know who they all are but they did well during beta and some even were in alltimes 2v2 as bh. even morrigan started off a bh and all of these peope use high emp builds when they were bh. the top 3 last time was morrigan,fj and phalanx. 1 merc at the top 3 possition of 2v2 alltimes and 2 bh. so wat does this mean it is possible for bh to play 2v2 but thye just dont want to do s because of the unbalance partering. ys i do agree some non var bh are quite clueless on how to use emp. this is because no1 taught them how to use it all they can think off is spam dex and spam multi like most mercs and mages do to thier multi. these bh really need some1 non var bh to look up 2 like evry1 looks up to new hope because she is 1st in 2v2 alltimes and is a merc. i have made build and eve tested out builds for them now it is just up 2 them to either take my advice(sometiems i set a side 1 h to just teach 1 or 2 non var bh/merc/mage a build) or just ignore it and keep on losing. i cant spoon feed them all the way. there are limitations and i can only teach them if they are willing to learn. IMO people now a days are just too lazy to think of build. they rather control c and control v the build u get wat i mean.


i agree with luna.....i first made it to 3rd on the 2v2 all-time leaderboard as a bh (over a year ago).....then stayed there as a mage for several months.....and then changed to merc and am still there......you can do well in 2v2 with any of the three classes you just need to take full advantage of the skills of each class....



drinde -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 7:12:03)

Make all Multi Attack increase on 4 Stat Points.

Tho this may make Multi Builds OP.

Maybe nerf Artillery to increase per 5 SUPP?



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 7:56:07)

^ no because mercs do not have any support buffer while mage and bh have buffers. but i do agree with the multishot and plasma rain should improve every 4 stat like support improves.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 9:58:00)

@Sageofpeace
quote:

lets see a bounty only need a level one emp to take 3/4 energy


Are you serious? A level one EMP cant take away 40 points of energy you need like 100 tech to do that. Your having delusions because you dont wanna be a merc accused of being Oped but you are. Everyone knows Mercs are Oped in 2 vs 2.

@Luna Did you just say that all classes are balanced? You should just leave this discussion no one will take you seriously. Its very very very clear so clear their is no balance that I should even have to say it. You are just a merc who doesnt wanna be accused of being OPed but you are I am a Merc and I know where Oped so look at the bigger picture.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 12:53:32)

^ ehem if u see my faction i been inactive for 3 day u know why because i been playing my bh yes srry to all my faction mate for not playing much because i just wanna see if a non var bh can own been doing weird experiments with lets see 5 of my bh alts seem fun to testing weird build. seeing if merc are really indeed oped actually they are not i trahsed 2 support merc during power hour well they are non varium but they lvl 28 and 29 vs me(lvl 25) and a uber caster mage(lvl 28). lolz it was fun beating them. this proves that support merc are not that oped if a 25 and 28 can beat them. and as miraged have said she was also a bh and she got onto the all time 2v2 as a bh. most of the all timers during beta were bh. so bh can actually beat support mercs and it is just way simple for them to do so. the support merc back in beta were far worse then the support merc now. no dex requirment back then = super high support and still there are bh in the 2v2 alltimes so wat does this mean are support merc really oped think bout that. how do ya explain the 4 bh in 2v2 alltimes during beta. this proves my point that Bh can beat support merc. Merc are useless without there energy so pls stop saying that merc are oped. cause if they are truly oped u cant distroy them. Am i oped if i am i would not be losing like hell because i do not have a decent partner or losing to non varium bh when my partner is another support merc.

also u need more than 100 tech to do -40 emp at lvl 1. 100+ tech= lvl 6 emp -43 energy



Sageofpeace -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 13:43:09)

for those who don't know what


(3/4) of 45 = 33.75



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 13:57:34)

@Luna then you fought some real noobs. Everyone knows a 140 support beast varium merc is way Oped. Its a fact. Almost everyone notices that but you. So I guess your never gonna see the truth to bad. Mercs dominate 2 vs 2 because their best at it. They have many advantages there multi improves with support meaning it cant be debuffed,it has 10% defence ignore and from support they get a powerful aux and many other luck based benefits. How is that NOT Oped? Please explain.



Light Stridr -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/11/2011 16:31:34)

quote:

for those who don't know what
(3/4) of 45 = 33.75

At level 1? not happening without a VERY large amount of tech.

quote:

^ no because mercs do not have any support buffer while mage and bh have buffers. but i do agree with the multishot and plasma rain should improve every 4 stat like support improves.

quote:

Forget the "You have malf" argument, a TM will spend around 70 energy to make their multi effective on ONE person, while a sup merc can use 44 to absolutely batter the opponents.

Yes, you can apply technician, but in this case, around 60-70 energy is spent to deal around the same damage OVER TWO TURNS as it takes for artillery to deal in one turn.
Mercs have permanent hybrid, so don't say the TM gets a resist boost and that balances it.




Lectrix -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/12/2011 0:31:04)

Light Stridr's right. Technician --> Plasma Rain? Not gonna happen. Besides, Tech Mages can easily apply Malfunction and reduce your Tech. Support, on the other hand, cannot be nerfed.


@Luna
quote:

Merc are useless without there energy

I'm assuming that you meant "their" Energy. And that's far from true. Let's take a quick look at our current, main Merc Builds: Support, Strength, and 5 Focus Tech. Support Mercs have devastating Auxiliaries; coupled with a quick Rage, they're far from weak, even without their Energy. Earlier, someone (I forget who) mentioned that Strength Mercs don't rely on Energy; it simply speeds them up. 5 Focus Tech Mercs are dependent on their Bots; with their tanking abilities, they can easily win a battle without Bunker Buster.

Now, let's take a look at Bounty Hunters and EMP Grenade. Most Bounty Hunters don't plan to use EMP Grenade. Keep in mind that EMP Grenade drains the user's Energy as well.

What is a Bounty Hunter supposed to do without Energy? Without Smoke Screen, Bounty Hunters are doomed. Mercs are a real pain in the you-know-what, thanks to Hybrid Armor. Hybrid Armor, coupled with any amount of Dexterity, renders most Physical Attacks nearly useless (especially at lower Levels). Without Smoke Screen, most Physical Attacks will do nothing but increase a Bounty Hunter's Rage Meter.

My point? Bounty Hunters are hurt just as badly (if not more so) as Mercs when they use, or are attacked with EMP Grenade.



Light Stridr -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/12/2011 11:24:26)

quote:

someone (I forget who) mentioned that Strength Mercs don't rely on Energy; it simply speeds them up

I said that [:D]

But lectrix, the EMP argument is totally valid, if a little flawed. You can take twice as much energy from the opponent compared to what you use, and a well timed EMP could potentially harm the opponent quite seriously. But like you said, the merc's main strength comes from their weaponry.



Sageofpeace -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/12/2011 11:40:10)

Mercenary are not oPE people are just noob that don't know how to play



Light Stridr -> RE: Getting More bounty hunters and tech mages into 2v2 (5/12/2011 11:52:06)

quote:

Mercenary are not oPE people are just noob that don't know how to play

I'm betting you're a merc?
show us your build if you are so confident.

And after that, actually try playing all of the classes past level 25.



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