RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (Full Version)

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iluvwatermelon1337 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 15:53:50)

Saying that the other person wouldn't know your strategy either isn't that good of an argument. Current Tactical Builds are so strong that guessing hardly makes a difference...



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 15:54:18)

quote:

quote:

But what if i want to know my opponents strategy so i could counter it?
i wouldn't be able to do so with a hidden skill tree...not supported


ur opponent wont know urs. so ur both in the same situation
the winner will be the one who improvises the best.
and thats the real strategy.

Easy for a str TLM to say because all u need to do is smoke, frenzy, and double strike.



the archangle -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 15:56:22)

Ok will i think it dont matter if someone copys your build it gives other people a good fight!
Some people cant copy others builds do to tanks founders and diffrent classes i like
mage cus there aint many [;)]



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 15:57:42)

quote:

Easy for a str TLM to say because all u need to do is smoke, frenzy, and double strike.

i am a TLM but dont judge me that and dont assume im like every other TLM out there.

a TLM wont know what the defense is. nor the dex.
i as a TLM would not rush into a fight without estimating his defense or resistance.



Wasalu M. Jaco -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 15:59:41)

@Gold
so fights are going to be determined based on who guesses correctly?



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:00:51)

@wasalu
it will be based on who improvises right and who uses the best strategy.

it can also be based on deception.
(like wearing support items while using str so the enemy thinks im using a support build)



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:01:22)

You don't improve by guessing.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:02:38)

@aqw
i didn't say improve i said improvise
and its not exactly guessing if u knew the formulas for damage calculations.



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:03:48)

With enhancements it wont work.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:05:17)

@aqw
with enhancements comes the deception part which can be used to ur advantage or to ur demise.



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:07:23)

Which is where you starting guessing...



iluvwatermelon1337 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:08:03)

It's also worth mentioning this puts a greater strain on non-Varium players. Guessing for them comes at a higher cost than for a Varium player who easily has double their stats.



Sipping Cider -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:08:53)

I would like this feature for a different reason other than preventing cookie-cutter builds. I think it would be fun and more realistic if you could not see you enemies build so what skills you cast and stuff are more of a guess on the weapons they have and what energy/health they have. Then new skills could be created that give you a chance of revealing your enemies build, like a skill could be called Cyber Scan and it displays the build to you.

However, to keep new players in competition and from just one person dominating with one build, I think after each battle there should be a link to your enemies build.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:09:02)

@aqw
if u guess then so will ur enemy have to do the same.
when he damages u, then u will no how capable his offense is.
thats when u know if u should raise defense.
for mages this shouldn't be a problem tho because they buff themselves up when someone uses smoke.
and smart mages should be more than capable to handle a fight if this were to happen.



Wasalu M. Jaco -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:10:06)

How would damage calculation help if i don't know what level a skill (like Surgical strike or artillery) is being used at?



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:12:04)

quote:

How would damage calculation help if i don't know what level a skill (like Surgical strike or artillery) is being used at?

u will know by the amount of energy used for the skill.
sadly it will be after the he uses it. and thats the tricky part, u should be prepared for things like that.



iluvwatermelon1337 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:12:52)

Saying that your opponent has to guess too is SUCH a ridiculously WEAK argument. There are so many factors that can go wrong in your 'guessing' such as the untimely critical or block. You say that we can estimate our opponent's offensive values but if they crit, that'll skew the guesstimation. Also, if you're blocked, it kinda sets you back on determining how strong their defense is because you didn't see any damage...



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:12:58)

Would it matter if we already got hit?



Wasalu M. Jaco -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:14:55)

So its about luck and guessing....
sounds good to me



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:17:05)

Goldslayer, most tlm's started as strength. It wasnt just you, it was me, nd mallet and other to name. I do NOT think this is a good idea. Copying builds is what every game has. Picture adventure quest, all builds are basicly the same. Noobs would have a very hard time and you couldnt help others retrain. Idk what you were thinking with this. We cant really use strategy if this gets implented. I hope the devs dont listen to the wrong people again.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:17:37)

quote:

Saying that your opponent has to guess too is SUCH a ridiculously WEAK argument. There are so many factors that can go wrong in your 'guessing' such as the untimely critical or block. You say that we can estimate our opponent's offensive values but if they crit, that'll skew the guesstimation. Also, if you're blocked, it kinda sets you back on determining how strong their defense is because you didn't see any damage...

well if he blocks then it just might happen that he has high dex. (and maybe shadow arts)
its not a weak argument seeing how theres also a formula for how much def/res a crit ignores.
and what if i blocked? thats even better isn't it?

quote:

Would it matter if we already got hit?

yeah it would. because next time u know to be prepared for such an attack.
u can also know what attack he will use next by the cooldowns.
for example
if he uses the gun in first turn. he can use the gun again in his third turn = using ur brain
same for aux and other skills.




Chosen 0ne -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:18:52)

No gold, just no...



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:19:51)

@chosen
u cant see builds in AQW.
however u can slowly begin to tell what the build is in battle or outside battle.
i cant see what their enhancements are, but i can tell what they are with enough time.
and thats what this is mainly for, so that it isn't so easy to copy a build.

well if people say it shouldn't be removed in battle.
do u agree that ti should be removed outside of battle?



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:21:33)

^You cant help noobs retrain. Getting a pro helping you retrain is a big step to becoming a better player.

And i never mentioned aqw. I said adventure quest, like wairier builds, hybrids, mage, pure mage, beast warrier, etc.
You may know more about that since your lvl 136 though, so correct me if im wrong comparing the two together.



Sipping Cider -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:21:43)

This would make each battle more intense and you could do all sorts of cool stuff like:


  • Have malfunction at level one so when you use it the person you malfuntioned spends a turn repairing the damage but it turns out they did not need to
  • Boost your strength with field commander and then they use a defensive skill to counter it but then you do use it for atom smasher or static charge, which ignore defenses.
  • Strike a lot with high strength but then surprise your enemy with a plasma bolt for the finish
  • Healing would not become as good since you would never know when it is best to heal.



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