RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (Full Version)

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goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:23:03)

quote:

^You cant help noobs retrain. Getting a pro helping you retrain is a big step to becoming a better player.

there are plenty of people out there who copy builds because they can. but no one helped them to become better.

@sun
well im glad someone sees some positive in this.
and yes it would make fights more intense
perhaps this could be a new mode instead where u cant see anyone's builds except urs?



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:23:08)

Mix and match = ED?



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:25:35)

u know whats the funny thing?
people cant see an NPC's build yet u guys do so FINE against them -.-
i mean u didn't know shadow guard was weaker to energy until u used an energy attack and then u developed a strategy in the moment.
u dont know his exact defense but u can still calculate ur damage against him.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:26:06)

quote:

there are plenty of people out there who copy builds because they can. but no one helped them to become better.


How would they know how to use it properly??? How did you, yourself become a pro, plus, noobs at lvl 15 cannot copy lvl 33 builds. I would to discuss this in game if we could goldslayer. Could you meet me at my house in epic??



Sageofpeace -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:26:57)

^ they are npc they do not think they made move base on how they were program to



frosty123 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:27:37)

Sure you can see NPC builds. Go on the wikia. :)



Celestine -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:28:47)

[@goldslayer1]
Because they don't have 110+ stats & are usually lower level than us.
Let's face it, comparing a computer programmed NPC to a player is not a good comparison.

I see this benefiting mindless strength builds who use the same strategy all the time.
If you use a different strategy, then I have not versed you and I have been playing a lot lately.

-Celestine



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:29:10)

quote:

^ they are npc they do not think they made move base on how they were program to

then this will be like NPCing except much more intense with game constant game turners and strategy improvising



Nexus... -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:30:36)

Oh boy, this is a tough one. I agree with the idea that skills/stats should be available in battle, but not out, for a SHORT term solution. However in the long run, EpicDuel needs to become far more strategy based so that the build barely matters. As of now, there are probably 5 successful builds across the game, which can consistently gain wins without utilizing a unique "changing" strategy. Without one of these builds your chances of winning greatly depend on the choices you make as a player. In the future I would love to see EpicDuel become reliant on the player rather then the build. What I mean by this, is I hope to see a game where the build doesn't even matter, where a player can have ANY build and win. This would mean EpicDuel has succeeded in making a game where the players skill and thought process count far more then a measly build. The problem is that EpicDuel is far from achieving the gameplay I have presented above. This being said, Goldslayer has ignited what I believe is a very good idea. While in battle, I do believe it is vital that we can see out opponents stats (this is the way it must be with the current architecture), however out a game, I believe goldslayer has hit it right on the mark. No stats, no damage, no skills, no weapon ranges, NOTHING pertaining to gameplay. This way no player can "prepare" for a challenge, or copy someone elses build out of battle.

The way the game is currently, I think this is how it should be. It would solve half the problem, and leave the other half to be fixed in a much longer process which requires much more thought and analysis by the developers.

Thoughts?

Prophet
*Xendran presented a wonderful balance revamp which I drew inspiration from. Check that out for more information.*




Sageofpeace -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:32:49)

^ the only thing i would like no to be seen is the skill tree , is necessary that we see other defense, resistance and attack so we don't just randomly attack wasting our energy or a turn which is quite valuable



Sipping Cider -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:37:52)

@Nexus
well put post there. That definitely changed my opinion on how epic duel should be.

quote:

I would love to see EpicDuel become reliant on the player rather then the build



I think a way for this to happen would be if each skill were equally as powerful as each other. This way builds would not need to rely on just a few skills (reroute, blood lust, hybrid armor, ect...)

I am hoping that with the new balance update this will put each non-passive skill at the same level. After that, it will just be work on passive skills that needs to be done.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:39:35)

@nexus
i do however feel that there should be such a mode however.
u know like in COD they have hard core elim? where u dont regain health over time or dont know how many bullets u have in ur clips.
and u dont have the hit markers in the middle of the screen to know where ur hitting.
if they had a hard core mode for each mode then it would be great.
it would also require a new record (without NPCs for the 1 vs 1)



frosty123 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:40:51)

I sure am exicited to win with a supercharge no dex max technicain low str high energy build. Perhaps you should say sensible builds



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:46:09)

so any thoughts on hard core mode?
hard core mode = u cant see the enemy's build so u need better strategy.
also u cant NPC in hard core, so u wont get wins easy and others will know ur true ration for hard core
NOTE: this is for elitist players who know what they are doing



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:50:20)

Gold you are being ignorant! I am going to tell the forums what i told you.


Allright, picture being new to this game. You are a 9 year old. You just entered your first battle with a light city gaurd. You are a merc. The first skill you use is hybrid.

You are 9 years old.

You dont see anything happen from what you know of when you use hybrid armor. so you dont use hybrid armor anymore because you think its a bad move.

You then go through a few lvls, your lvl 16.

You notice your not doing much damage against other mercs.

So you decide to read what hybrid does, and it gives you defense points

You have NO idea what defense or resistance does.

You dont know how to use that effectivly.

You are simply not able to see if someone has a physical or energy weapon.

Anyways, you try hybrid armor to give it a shot.

You go through 5 battles with it.

The first 3 had energy weapons.

Remember, you dont know what energy weapons are, you think nothing has changed so far.

You do the other 2 battles.

They have physical weapons, but are strength build

You wouldnt know they are sytrength builds

Nothing has changed for you

so you think hybrid is a useless skill.

Not to mention that when you start out you would have no idea what the other classes skills and what they do.

You would not be able to strategise from other classes.

Being a merc, you would call bh's hackers because they regain health because of bloodlust.

You have NO idea what bloodlust does or what it is.

If your idea was impelnted all the new players would quit.

The non variums aswell.

Being a lvl capped varium player this would be a fine idea.

But i just cant see it being added to the game.

The newer players just wont win.

I have discussed this with goldslayer but his opinions havnt chaned, have yours?

Sorry for any spelling errors,

Chosen




Sipping Cider -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:54:23)

@ChosenOne

I think the issue you bring up has more to do with new players getting educated on the game. Even if they could see builds they will still have a hard time adjusting to the different defenses and lots of skills. Tutorials are being made by other players on Youtube (at least that is what I heard) and there is a how to play link on the bottom of the screen of Epicduel.

Still, it is hard being a new player and I agree something about that needs to change, but being able to see other builds might not help that much if they do not know what is going on.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:54:49)

@chosen
u expect them to know everything at low lvls?
most low lvls dont even know what malf those.
u think its our fault?
no the game should have tutorials to explain them that, sadly however i doubt that will ever happen.
and also most low lvls dont even know that they can check the enemy defense and res. so most of them make the mistake of attacking the highest ones.

ur saying they WONT know if this gets implemented, when they already dont know.

thats why i would like to change the idea into turning this into NEW modes.
hard core modes to be specific, what hard core mode is. u basically cant see the enemy's build.
and u cant NPC for 1 vs 1 hardcore.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 16:56:05)

I dont think its our fault. This is purely if your idea gets implented.

Also gold, This would mean they would NEVER know. And what lv1 checks youtube for tutorials???? Also they would never have the chance to see defense and resistance. They wouldnt know what to do to stratigize lator on!

Gold, if you want this to be a new battle mode, im fine with it. But it shouldnt belong here if its requesting a new battle mode, it should be in suggestions.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 17:00:20)

@chosen
so ur saying that a low lvl will lack the knowledge to play the game if this gets implemented, when they already lack the knowledge?
thats like saying ur drunk, and u wanna get drunk again when ur already drunk.
it makes no sense.

hard core mode would be the solution IMO. if players dont like this idea, dont play hard core mode. if they like it, then keep playing.
these new hard core mode also means new daily hard core achievements and boards.
Hardcore solo champion, hardcore team champion, hardcore juggernaut.
hardcore solo all-time, hardcore team all-time, hardcore juggernaut all-time.

quote:

Gold, if you want this to be a new battle mode, im fine with it. But it shouldnt belong here if its requesting a new battle mode, it should be in suggestions.
idk maybe i feel like getting some feedback on it. which i cant do on suggestion forums.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 17:02:56)

quote:

so ur saying that a low lvl will lack the knowledge to play the game if this gets implemented, when they already lack the knowledge?
thats like saying ur drunk, and u wanna get drunk again when ur already drunk.
it makes no sense.


First off, lol. Im 13. what im saying is they would never get the knowledge.

Gold, im fine with this being a new battle mode.

quote:

idk maybe i feel like getting some feedback on it. which i cant do on suggestion forums.


I know lol, i purely said that to annoy you lol.



edwardvulture -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 17:03:46)

Originally started strength Tact Merc? This was no feat as the skill tree asked for it. It is simply a strength merc with reroute and smoke.



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 17:08:06)

Landis:
quote:

For future reference, at this time suggestion feedback/petition threads are not permitted in EDGD. Unless the rules change, and they become allowed, please do not post a thread like this again, merely submit your suggestion to the ED Suggestions Forum as you did and allow the ED Game Staff to make their own judgements on the idea, thanks!

Nuff said.



Angels Holocaust -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 17:08:54)

I suggested this idea in the old epicduel forums, and I agree. I'm sick and tired of bad players copying the builds of the pros. To make matters worse, they manage to beat you with crits and blocks. Our builds are unique to us and only us, so why the hell should we share them? The answer is no, it's mine and mine alone and I don't want to share it to the world.



Chosen 0ne -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 17:09:09)

i thought circe said we could post in general discussion^



ur going to fail -> RE: Cookie-Cutter Builds (8/3/2011 17:09:15)

nah they should build viewing from outside of battle. so ppl can't copy it. if u do that inside of battle it would IMPOSSIBLE to figure out ur opponents strategy. or they should add a way were u can choose for ppl to view stats or no.



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