=ED= Balance Discussions (Full Version)

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Lord Barrius -> =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:20:44)

All balance discussions will be restricted to this thread. This is to condense the many issues that you have all expressed into a single place that the balance people can work on.

Please keep all balance discussions in this thread, and don't forget to follow the forum's rules.


EDIT: Some things that the balancers would like you to avoid discussing. Please do not post about the following things.
quote:

No discussion/request for buffing or enhancing Founder Armor - Any additional perks that founders may recieve will be at the discretion of the staff.

No "luck" complaints - This thread is not a place to complain about an unlucky streak that caused you to lose a match. Please remember that while luck may seem to favor or disfavor you in the short run, over the long run it does average out.
If you disagree with these policies, please send me a PM and we will discuss the issue. DO NOT post in this thread to protest these things, your post will be deleted and you will be issued punishments for breaking the rules.



HellsCupid -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:29:19)

Poison should be able to kill.

Thumbs up please? xD



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:34:50)

Null post (I posted about luck)



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:45:24)

@greenrain13 So what are you suggesting? Artilery Strike with 26% crit chance?




igfod13 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:46:11)

Weapons need to be sweeped so all weapons are somewhat "useful".
Enhancement prices need to be lowered yet again because enhancements have become so important. This should close the non varium-varium gap to an acceptable level.
Deflections should be moved to tech to balance out support.
If this happens, robot should not improve with tech and focus should just be changed to the lowest stat on the player has, which would then become the new damage for the bot.
'Nuff said.

-okdude

Edit: Nothing should determine start rate except level.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:46:59)

Hmm stats should not affect deflection, block, and critical as they mostly fall onto luck and players become less skilled and more lucky (best I could do related to a non-luck, luck-orientated post).



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:48:23)

A new Hybrid should make things better.

Lvl 1 = 10% of Defense
Lvl 2 = 12% of Defense
Lvl 3 = 17% of Defense
Lvl 4 = 19% of Defense
Lvl 5 = 24% of Defense
Lvl 6 = 26% of Defense
Lvl 7 = 31% of Defense
Lvl 8 = 33% of Defense
Lvl 9 = 38% of Defense
Lvl 10 = 40% of Defense

OR there could be a dex requirement on Hybrid.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:51:09)

^ I agree, hybrid points are indefinite and start off as a major bonus to lower leveled players and becomes less potent for higher leveled players. Adjusting hybrid to your current defense in a percentage is a good suggestion of balance. Honestly, everything needs to be a percentage of what your player's build is.

@igfod~below,

Agreed, percentage should be low as hybrid ultimately increases defense to make incoming physical attacks low as 3. I would also say hybrid on high health players should be weaker considering agility plays a role on health monsters.



igfod13 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 22:52:24)

@shadowking
That's probably better than what they have now for lower level balance, but then people would just super tank at higher levels.
A better progression would be something like this:
Lvl 1: 5%
Lvl 2: 8%
Lvl 3: 11%
Lvl 4:13%
5: 15%
6: 17%
7: 19%
8: 20%
9: 21%
10: 22%
If you think about a 40% increase, thats like +16 for someone with 40 res/def. +8 is reasonable is more reasonable at 20%.

I think an interesting way to balance hybrid would to make it start randomly. It might start on defense OR resistance, so its less predictable.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:03:47)

I can already see some of these post wont be to help out balance but to destroy other classes and builds they dont like.
We all know that is expected so please dont delete this post as flaming. Anyway. Enhancement cost should be lowered.
For instance.

Credits Enhancements
1 Slot- 2,500
2 Slots- 5,000
3 Slots- 7,500
4 Slots- 10,000
5 Slots- 12,500
6 Slots- 15,000
7 Slots- 17,500
8 Slots- 20,000
9 Slots- 22,500
10 Slots- 25,000

Now as you can see here it would take that much credits to just fully enhance one weapon. Increase that by 4 items(Weapons and Armor)that be 100,000 credits. Most Non-var items dont have nearly that much enhancements the highest non-var range is usually 6 slots. So it be only 60,000 credits in total. Just to fully enhance all weapons. That seems far more reasonable then it currently is. I also think varuim enhancements should be slashed to.

Varuim Enhancements
1 Slot- 50
2 Slot- 100
3 Slot- 150
4 Slot - 200
5 Slot- 300
6 Slot- 400
7 Slot - 600
8 Slot - 800
9 Slot- 1,000
10 Slot- 1,250

This makes it cost 450 less varuim to fully enhance one weapon. So if all 4 items(Weapons and Armor) cost 450 less varuim that is 1,800 less varuim spent. I think this would please both Non-Var and Var players.



igfod13 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:09:08)

(null post) Varium price discussion not allowed. xD

OFF TOPIC(since this will be deleted anyways):
Welcome LB. I'm a big fan of you and greatly appreciate all you have done for AQ.
I hope your arrival will bring the civility this forum needs.



Yo son -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:18:01)

Make it that, in other for a player to have this amount of skill points(X) on a stat, he must first reach this(X) amount of skill points, personally, I think this idea beats agility.

First heard of this idea from mr.bones.




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:18:02)

What are some of your thoughts on passive skills? Are they balanced? Are active skills balanced?

I think passive skills are fine but some of them are not necessary. Blood lust, reroute, and deadly aim are all decent skills. To manage and make them more efficient means you will need to raise one of your player's traits accordingly. On example, deadly aim is effective with a strong gun and high strength. Reroute is good when your health is high and you use up energy quickly and/or your max energy is high. Blood lust is good when you can effectively deal high damage and possibly have high health. Hybrid armour and shadow arts stop at set values and never change. Change is good and keeps things entertaining so I think they would need some tweeking.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:25:15)

Wait so we cant discuss anything to do with luck? So we can no longer suggest ideas to fix our opinions about luck?



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:28:32)

@igfod

I don't ever see mercs with 40 def, 40% is much more reasonable because a standard tank merc would have around 30 def. 30*40%=12 :D



Ashari -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:36:16)

@IsaiahtheMage: Pardon the wording of the original post, I made it a bit clearer. Discussion of effects such as criticals, blocks, deflects or stun is welcome as long as it's with balance in mind.

What we don't want to see is complaints that you were "screwed by the RNG". There is no magic code that decides you will be crit three times in a row or you will block twice. What there is, is chance -- chance that can be swayed in your favor or your opponents favor based on stats. A single incident of a crit that lost you the duel is not something that should be brought up in a balance discussion. In a few duels, it might seem as if it is your lucky day or that the universe is conspiring against you, however over hundreds of duels, your chance to crit, stun, block or deflect are just where they should be based on the formulas you find here: How Things Are Calculated



igfod13 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:36:24)

@shadowking
That's still letting mercs end up with 42 def without much effort. 40% is way too much of a boost.
Maybe 30%? That would make it +9 at 30 def/res, which is as good as Tesla Armor.

@deathspawn
Yep. If you look at the AQ forums, things are quite restricted, but it allows for better conversations without flaming or trolling.
Civility comes at a price. I can already feel the anger that will come because of this, but people will just have to deal with it.



DeathSpawn -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:36:50)

Is this for real? If everything is locked and everyone is forced to post here how are we to discuss different topics?



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:49:44)

@igfod

They already have +12 from Hybrid armor so what's so wrong about giving them the same amount? O.o We are here to make classes balanced not making a class UP. :)



igfod13 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/10/2011 23:59:32)

+12 hybrid armor is pretty OPed right now, way better than the other passives. That's one of the reasons why tactical mercs are so "OPed" right now. If hybrid armor was taken down to a deadly aim, bloodlust, reroute, shadow arts, level itself instead of one uber passive skill, things would be a lot better/fair. With that in hand, regular mercenaries should probably get another passive to account for that.
I think at this rate, every class should get 2 passives that are of about equal power.

@below The reason str TLMs can run around with so high str is because they have a static hybrid armor to run around with.
@JZaanu I'm sure there's gonna be huge backlash. People will start complaining about going back to the old ED forums and being suppressed or w/e. But I think this change should be very welcomed by the more "mature" community. I really hope LB will bring the AE into ED.



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/11/2011 0:00:52)

The tanks aren't OP is the Str TLMs.



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/11/2011 0:01:10)

It is interesting because the game has very little features beyond pvp, so balance has been a point of discussion. Having it formatted into one thread will likely make the efforts of the Moderators a bit easier to view posts, but at the same time, it will provide some difficulty for players to find and discuss issues that will be relatable to their own personal balance issue.


The transition will be interesting, because the players will have to be creative in making a topic that doesn't fall into a specific thread.

Since this thread is about balance, I will say Mages will have fun casting max rain. It will be a battle of multis in 2v2. I will be in those battles. I will promise to make my Rain Op'ed. lol



aqwshadowking14 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/11/2011 0:07:10)

@JZannu

Hehe, seems like all those builds that aren't used much are doing better than those that are copied and pasted. Well at least that's what is going on with me. [:D]



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/11/2011 0:13:20)

I think the changes done are more for new players entering into this forum. Most adults would prefer more expressive thoughts over restrictive thought, but at the same time, we had a redundant amount of repeating threads talking about the same issues.

The challenge will be creating threads that don't involve balance. :)






voidance -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (8/11/2011 0:14:42)

I can already see the combination of plasma rain, bloodlust, and 5 focus being a very powerful combination for blood mages in 2v2.



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