RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (Full Version)

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ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 21:04:20)

Personally, i think that the devs gotta do this:

Get rid of frenzy from tactical mercenary and give it to the normal mercenary to balance them more.

Agree?



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 21:09:26)

^
Agree. And HA should also be removed :3 (or remove reroute and replace with assimilation)



ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 21:20:03)

^ We already have atom smasher so why would we need assimilation. I feel that its more like removing things like Smoke and Frenzy because if u remove the more vital skills(HA and Reroute) of the tactical mercenary it will cripple them.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 21:26:24)

^
No class should have two main passives. Either hybrid armor or reroute should be removed from TLMs, then give them deadly aim or shadow arts for a side-passive.



ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 21:32:12)

^ Up to u to think, maybe ur right. Nobody knows but the devs because we cant test it out, only they can test it. Im not siding tlm but if u think about it, they will become the UPed class. Its about balance, not about making tlm useless.



altimatum -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 21:34:13)

Hybrid armor removal sounds good.... and they still have a killer moveset



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 21:51:27)

@ngshuyi
A Tac Merc with reroute and shadow arts (not deadly aim cause it would be too close to TM). How is that UP? You will be able to go smoke, gun, frenzy, strike/atom smash...and you can still win.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 22:38:18)

any confirmation on how the support requirement progresses in smokescreen?



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 22:55:34)

^ the only thing it will do is force str Build to have a little more support, and force STR BH to use high mascre build, way to ruin creativity even more!!! STUPID DAM REQUIRMENTS!!!! DONT DO ANYTHING!!!



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 23:04:36)

@remorse
exactly i just want to know how much support it requires to see how much massacre and shadow arts i should use.

altho support req on smoke also kills the full str smoke cheapshot build:/
but that build didn't get high % anyway.



ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 23:22:15)

@ AQWPlayer

Like i said both of us cant tell by guessing and stuff. Lets leave it to the devs to test it and decide. [;)]



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 23:29:48)

^
You're right. Let them destroy their own game while we watch ;) Unless they can start caring about balance instead of requirements, and that includes class balance as well as the gap.



ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/9/2011 23:40:02)

^ Yeap, requirements are the worst kinda balance.

Firstly, creativity is limited.
Next, enhancements make the effect of the requirements limited.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 0:21:43)

@ngshuyi Requirements don't stop creativity. They stop extreme stat abuse which is by no means creative. It doesn't take creativity to put everything into Strength. Requirements are meant to keep things balanced at low levels. If they were meant to be used at high levels for balance then reqs would be much higher than 40. Also, enhancements make builds more creative. You can't say they don't because people don't use them to be creative and instead use them to abuse a stat.



ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 0:40:17)

^ What i simply mean is that the wide variety of builds are disrupted. And ur builds become limited due to requirements.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 1:50:14)

@ND

I disagree,

Extreme stat abuse is creative, as long as it is not oped it should be kept in the game to enusre variaty and enusre a forfilling future for this game (yes, problems with stats abusing occurs but they can be dealt with)

Plus requimrents do a completely poor effort for stoping it, infact I often usally see str abusers with the same STR the always did but with higher support meaning more crits and more starts and more first shot stuns which is what is making them oped in the first place, many times requirments have actuly led to piling build more effective if not barley changed at all.
AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE LIKE THIS FOR AS LONG AS ENHACMENTS ARE KEPT IN THIS GAME.

Tis not the piling of stats that makes most TLMS oped, tis their high constant defence, their frequent stuns, their variety and low cool downs of str moves, their frequent rages need i go on?
These are the things that can be chnanged to fix probelms with stat piling requirments will do nothing EXCEPT RUIN THIS GAME.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 1:57:02)

@remorse How can you find stat abusing creative when it's basically among the first builds ever made and has been used by a majority of the ED population? I think of creativity as a build where you put together stats that haven't been used they way they have been. A build that can get good ratios but isn't used by the majority of the players. Something that requires more thought than "I'm going to put a large amount of stats into strength so I can hit high numbers."



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 2:04:59)

^ Buy the same tocken how can you find balance / focus builds more creative then any other piling build?
And dont simplifiy all piling builds as just strength and uncreative strength builds at that, I have seen some great dex, tech, support piling builds in my time each time forcing me to push my build to the limits to see if its capable of defating the great amount of variety and strength builds to can be more creative often more creative then the focus counterpart.

Without variety builds will only specilise and that is when you get Str abusers and tanks and nothing else like for instance NOW! And i dont blame them , the way i see it str Abusers have to become str abusers to be able to defat str abusers that or tanks. SO in a way requiments are leading to the spamming of str, that or tanks two boring builds to make up the whole boring battlefield wooopy doo.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 2:48:19)

Maybe this will work out?

Tactical Mercenaries: Reduce Effectiveness of Smoke Screen by 5%, Make Hybrid Armor 2nd tier, or replace with Blood Shield. Bunker Buster should take 1st tier. Eliminate Reroute

Replacements: Switch out for Static Charge.

Blood Mages - Increase Blood Lust effectiveness by 2%. It's impossible to put Assimilation back unless you replace Super Charge with Assimilation: More like this.

Level 10: Players drain 50% of the opponent's EP, Player heals EP by % of the EP drained. If missed, Heals 15 EP + (Level/4).

Skill level 1: 25%
Skill Level 2: 36%
Skill Level 3: 47%
Skill Level 4: 58%
Skill Level 5: 68%
Skill Level 6: 78%
Skill Level 7: 88%
Skill Level 8: 97%
Skill Level 9: 106%
Skill Level 10: 115%

Cyber hunters: Increase Effectiveness of Plasma Grenade, Reroute instead of Static Charge




Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 3:31:06)

OMG ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!

CHANGE THE DAM TLM CLASS NOW I CANT HANDLE ANOTHER DAM UNAVIODABLE WIN BY SOME STCUK UP UNCREATIVE TLM NOOOB!!!!!!!!!

*slaps my self in the face*

Sry about that, thats just me going insaine for the 200th battle today of whcih have been TLM str lazy dam builds the same thing over and over agian.


NO MORE EXUSES GET RID OF HYBRID FOR DM NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*slaps agian*

Sorry jeez it's getting bad.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 4:23:25)

Seriously, I support the remove HA, bring in SA idea for TtMs...

Meh. No requirements will ever stop the Tactical Domination, guess we should see how long it takes for the Devs figger it out.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 17:44:00)

@drinde
What about a 100 support requirement on frenzy and a 100 tech requirement on maul/atom smasher?



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 17:49:38)

quote:

I was thinking of the Tech Mage's Skill Tree and make two probably good skill trees. Here they are:

Field Medic - Def Matrix - Plasma Bolt

Malfunction - Assimilation - Overload

Plasma Rain - Technician - Deadly Aim

Bludgeon - Reroute - Supercharge

OR


Field Medic - Def Matrix - Plasma Bolt

Reroute - Technician - Bludgeon

Plasma Rain - Assimilation - Deadly Aim

Overload - Malfunction - Supercharge
Taken from a post I did in Tech Mage's Adjustments

If you dont like none of the skill trees, do it yourselves but please just do a skill tree arrangement for Tech Mages, can't you understand, it is not good enough?



Lord Nub -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/10/2011 17:50:05)


I still believe that if skills increased at a constant rate, i.e. Multi-Shot increasing at 4 Dexterity points per damage point and not slowing down after a certain amount, with a cap that we would see more creative builds for all classes.

The TaM is the only class that does not benefit as much from this because they only have one damaging skill which is Artillery Strike and would also be capped.

Other classes would increase energy and fight utilizing more of their skill tree and we would see some pretty cool builds.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/11/2011 3:38:43)

Here is my theory about passives that I posted in another thread:

1. Primary passives. Those that offer a constant benefit every single turn. These are:
- Hybrid Armor - constantly protects you against Physical attacks. If switched, it protects against Energy attacks, if your opponent has only Energy weapons.
- Bloodlust - constantly helps you regain HP when attacking. Every single turn you land a successful attack, you regain HP.
- Reroute - constantly replenishes your energy pool when you are hit by an attack.

2. Secondary passives. Those that help only under certain circumstances. These are:
- Deadly Aim - only helps when you fire the gun. If you shoot the gun as often as possible, it will help you once every 3 turns.
- Shaodw Arts - increases chance to block and stun. It may help you block primary weapon attack or bot attack, or stun more often wit a stun grenade (weak skill btw). Or it may not help at all. Everything is ruled by chance on this one.
- one more Secondary passive is needed.

Every class should have one Primary and one Secondary passive.

Current balance status:
- Mercs are weak now because they have only one Primary passive.
- CHs are weak because they have only one Secondary passive.
- TLM is OPed because they have two Primary passives.



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