RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (Full Version)

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igfod13 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/17/2011 17:24:24)

Robots should not require any energy to use, unless they receive a buff as compensation. If debuffing cost MP, debuff would be incredibly UP. I do like the idea of having the debuff% improve with focus, but I don't think focus should affect bots as all. Focus is too much of a bonus for something that should be a "bonus"/treat, instead of a strong build. Considering robots require a turn of no damage to reduce a debuff done to you that did do damage, they should actually get a buff. Frankly, ED relies too much on the OP debuff skills right now.

As for the classes, I think there needs a template for every class to follow. Of course, this would require skills to be balanced, but this template would be the best way to ensure at least theoretical balance. Add in check's and balances for each build and you should get fair classes.
I was thinking of something along the lines of this.
Tier 1: Field Medic-Def. Skill-Off. Skill
Tier 2: Passive 1-Def. Skill-Off. Skill
Tier 3: Energy Drain Skill-Stun Skill-Multi
Tier 4: Passive 2-"Final Attack"-Special Skill.
Every Class should have at least 1 way to regain and drain energy. For some classes, it will be easier, for others it would be harder. If one of the classes' passives are energy draining (assimilation, static charge), then their energy drain skill could be replaced with something else.
For this to work, all skills need to be balanced, which should not be hard with some tweaking of damage and energy costs.

In a few weeks I'm probably going to try and balance all the stats and skills mathematically. XD

-okdude



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 20:39:34)

REPLY: battles these days

quote:

First off, "I'm playing till beta" --> Isn't beta already over?

im pretty sure he meant since beta. u talk smart but are too dumb to realize that?

also most complaining about tlms weren't tlms themselves or dont have much experience under their belt.
cause if they did they wouldn't complain like a bunch QQers (Q_Q) and would have made counter builds against tlms.

secondly. i done 140+ today
so far 5 losses. only 2 were from tlms, and the rest was from BH.
and most of them only won if they got lucky. (i remember syfy getting 2 crits on me with like 4 blocks and a deflect)

if u dont believe me. look at the real experienced people on the leaderboards, dailies and all time.

Comicalbiker - Cyber Hunter
Fay beee - BH
Donna matrix - BH
Deathnightmare - techmage
Wiseman - tech mage
angels holocaust - tactical merc
Dax - BH
VIX - BH
shundraa - bloodmage
xxx.mamaril.xxx - BH
Trizkial - BH
Staber - TLM
Epic - Cyber Hunter (retired player)
Bunjira - TLM
Syfy - BH

now out of all of those 15 players only 3 of them are tlms
notice how many BHs there are there.

7\15 BH
and only 3/15 TLMs


so dont come to me with balony saying tlms are too OP. because if they were, then all of those boards player would be tlms



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 20:48:47)

@Goldslayer

I never said that I can't beat them. I beat 80% of TLM's if they don't Block me, or deflect me.
The thing is why I beat them is that my Massacre does 119 Damage. So even if they had 40 resistance, I still do 60+ damage on them which is better then Mortal Kombat's Fatality. ;)
I mean, it's easy for me, once I found a build that matches every possible build that TLM's have laid on me.
Do you want to know what that build is?
It's a realy abuse. Abuse of Malfuncion, Static Charge and Massacre.
So, just ignore all of my previous statements how TLM's are OP'd.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 20:56:19)

@speedy
if thats the case then by ur standards CH is OPed -.-

but what u dont realize is the most tlms COPIED builds from another original TLM.
if 40% of ED right now turned CH and copied ur build.
people will come on the forums and Q_Q about how OP CH is, just because of one build that was copied from one person. (and then eventual spread and have the build copied by others.



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 21:05:08)

Totaly. Just no one ever gave an maxed Massacre a shot. But,
TLM is the standard now, since some person found an synergetic build.
And there are only a few people who tried out Cyber Hunter to the max.
So, you can only blame the people who just stick to the thing that is "best".
Also, a few months ago, I stated that Cyber Hunters are OP'd.



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 21:35:16)

@goldslayer1

quote:

im pretty sure he meant since beta. u talk smart but are too dumb to realize that?


If you didn't realize, I loathe talking to people who speak poor English. Oh, and one more thing, watch your words.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 21:56:53)

Should deflects get in the way of killing an opponent?

The RNG could ignore the chance of a Deflect/Block when an attack was supposed to kill an opponent...

The luck in ED is way too random.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 22:25:11)

^
Luck is a huge problem that needs to be fixed, but the chance to have a last second block/deflect should be kept, as it has saved my azz quite a few times xD



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 23:42:35)

quote:

For every 3 points of Support more you have compared to your enemy, you increase your chance to deflect their attack by 1%. Naturally, if you are the attacker, for every 3 points of Support you have compared to your enemy, you reduce their chance to deflect your attack by 1%.
-EDWiki


Isn't this a bit too fast? I suggest increase deflection chance every 4 more Support, instead of 3.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/19/2011 23:59:17)

quote:

If you didn't realize, I loathe talking to people who speak poor English. Oh, and one more thing, watch your words.

so u like making fun of people whos english isn't their first language? wow thats pretty sad.
and why should i watch my words? i never said anything wrong to u.



Jekyll -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 0:28:55)

Well, I'm not making fun of anyone, just pointing out the mistake, but you perceive it otherwise, thats not up to me. Say what you want, I never offended you in the first place. I wont stoop to your level, this discussion ends here. Arguing is pointless, so I will be a gentleman and openly apologize to Turkish and you, if you felt offended by anything that I said which got misunderstood, if its what you seek.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 1:12:09)

SERIOUSLY. Massacre needs to be drastically nerfed, and the Tac Mercenary needs to be rearranged.

Here is my suggestion:
Field Medic-Double Strike-Blood Shield*

Maul-Bunker Buster*-Intimidate*

Reroute-Frenzy-Artillery Strike

Surgical Strike-Atom Smasher-Toxic Grenade.

Blood Mage needs to have Smoke Screen instead of Intimidate. This is getting too OP'd.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 2:15:05)

Dear ED
im am begging you to please fix your RNG luck factors.



Algorithm -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 2:26:36)

Thanks



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 2:30:11)

/engage sarcasm
ohh noez my enemy blocked me 4 times, critted me twice and, deflect twice.
it means im a total newb at this game. i suck horribly.

/end sarcasm
FIX UR LUCK FACTORS OMG



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 3:49:48)

Funny thing actually.
5,30 hours ago I fought some level 34 BH 2 times.
Got 2 of my attacks blocked, he critted me, I died.
The secound battle:
Got 2 of my attacks blocked, managed to stay alive and inflict some damage with my aux, still died.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 3:55:46)

a conversation with a friend
ME: hmm, i had a bad day today
Friend: why what happened?
me: this guy lvl 29 blocked me twice and critted me 3 times so i lost.
me: he had 15 dex when i smoked him. and he had less support than me
me: its just not right man
friend: what not right? u kidding me man its completely normal for a lvl 29 to block u twice with 15 dex and crit u 3 times with lower support. matter of fact ur lucky a lvl 19 didnt do it.



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 3:58:11)

I wasn't being sarcastic if we just started a sarcasm war...



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 8:14:45)

Below will buff the Blood Mage Class without nerfing any other class and we will see more players becoming a Blood Mage. Below will unleash the aggression and power of the Blood Mage.

Since Smoke and Hybrid Armor is here to stay with tact mercs then for the Blood Mage new skills need to be incorporated
and with these new skills it will not only make the Blood Mage an Aggressive form of the Tech Mage.

You say HELO will make the Blood Mage Over powered but what NPC has both Blood Lust and Reroute, starts with a T
and ends with an N, how many of you have beat him?

Intimidation, Reflex boost, and berzerker will be replaced with better skills

Another new skill to replace the linked skills can be the
three strikes of Berzerker combined with the Bludgeon as the final strike
it can be called Taz, the punisher, or the quad strike. With these skills
for the Blood Mage it will break one link from the three classes.

HELO (Health Energy Life Overseer)
If blocked by opponent no health return
If you block opponent no energy return
Energy Required: 0 (passive)
Conversion:
Level 1: 12%
Level 2: 15%
Level 3: 18%
Level 4: 21%
Level 5: 23%
Level 6: 25%
Level 7: 27%
Level 8: 28%
Level 9: 29%
Level 10: 30%

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: 5
Improves With: None
Warm Up: None
Cool Down: 0

Return Assimilation back to the Blood Mage but with HELO selected you don't regain energy but it needs to cool down of 2 and take away as much energy as emp since it can still be blocked but when HELO is not selected then with Assimilation you get back either multiple time the amount of energy or a percentage say 70% or lowerand call it Essimilation.

Evolved Assimilation (no energy return if HELO is selected just energy drain)
HELO (evolved reroute/Blood Lust)

For the shield it can be called Guardian and when used it increases dex(defense) and tech(resistance) at
the same time that way the Blood mage don't have to waste two turns to get that extra protection
and the gaurdian still helps improve the stats that other skills improves with.

For a debuff skill how about, restriction, where it debuffs all stats but the stat with the largest amount
of points gets the largest debuff and enhances energy damage.

Field medic - fire ball - Guardian
Plasma Cannon - HELO - Plasma Rain
TAZ - Restriction - Overload
Essimilation - Super Charge - Deadly Aim

Why keep nerfing one or two classes which affects the original classes but instead they need to enhance the class that they not only short changed but also has the least amount of players because it is not as strong as it should be.



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 12:07:24)

God damnit Hun,
How many times do people have to tell you that what you make is OP'd!
The class is fine.
You just act like that because you don't have any clue how to make a working build nor you know how to use the damn class.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 12:57:58)

Persistent isn't he...

Anyway About BloodMages and Assimilate...

Yes they need it back
Like I said Months ago, Remove intimidate and put Reflex Boost there and put Assimilate Back to where Reflex Boost now is.

Why does BloodMage need Intimidate if they allready have Reflex Boost and Technician??
(Looky here Hun, With Reflex Boost + Assimilate they even have a bigger energy regain...)

About Assimilate itself, I see a lot of people say Buff it but I noticed that it scales ( Might be wrong though )
seeing I've seen lower level Mages with a smaller Assimilate energy steal compared to the higher level ones.

Also Atom Smasher and EMP are indeed better Energy destroy-wise but unlike those 2 skills, Assimilate improves with Str and it does actual damage.



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 13:02:12)

Andy, if they remove Intimidate,
They basicly remove the only thing that is able to stop my build from destroying them.
Like Battle Elf said: "Intimidate = Wootz's death"



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 13:11:55)

Actualy not really Speedy...

I know you can't ' compare ' Intimidate with Technician and Reflex boost due to one being a Buff and the other a Nerf but they ' Kind off ' have the same use...

Intimidate= Lowers Primary and Gun Damage ( Energy and Physical )
Technician= Buffs Energy Gun/Aux/Bot/Primary resistance + buffs your Bot damage
Reflex Boost= Buffs Physical Gun/Aux/Bot/Primary defences + Energy regain on hit + Block chance increase

Not counting Reflex Boost, Intimidate is the Only skill that improves with support which makes it really useless in my honest opinion.
I've yet to even think of a build that is support focus now that Field Medic doesn't improve with it anymore



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 13:16:14)

I know what you mean, but it perfectly counters my build.
Because if I can't make enough damage before Massacre ( Take them down to 65 HP atleast ), I'm dead. Also if I get blocked, I can die, aswell.
And that intimidate takes up 3-10 damage of me.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (11/20/2011 14:58:19)

1234speedy, Leave cursing God out of it, I do create working builds and if I see you or any other in the game I look at your builds and know right off how you battle and how to counter it especially the weapons that will take you down and the type of armor to use.

Only reason non blood mages don't like my ideas not that it would make that class overpowered but would bring that class up to par with the other new class as well as great fear that Titan will give the go ahead with my skills after trying everything else that failed so far. No one wants nerfs but when someone comes up with new skills that basically buffs one class without affecting one class you don't like that either so which is it do you want to keep nerfing one class to death or buff one class that needs it the most?

With the unique skills that I suggest any skill that will make the Blood Mage over powered can be adjusted without affecting any other class.

So some of you think my ideas will make the Blood mage over powered then break it down skill by skill and show us since you are trying to come across as programmers of ED.



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