RE: The Ugly Truth (Full Version)

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ND Mallet -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 1:48:36)

@gold What you're asking the staff to do is remove all strategy from the game. How do I know if I should play defensively against Strength builds if I can't see that they have 120+ strength? The answer is I won't. If I can't see what I'm fighting then I have no strategy to use. I can only strike or gun and hope I learn enough from the fight to win the next fight. It would encourage stat abusing since you don't need strategy to win with those kinds of builds.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 2:44:22)

@ND
this is where the smarts come in
u can roughly tell someone's build by their items.

and of course now it may not be seen as strategy
but with something like this, there would be true strategy involved.
and u might say that about stat abuser
but if this were to be implemented in the first place ED wouldn't have so many balance issues.
and there wouldn't be such thing as putting it all into str, because people would have been smarter than that and used a more sophisticated diverse build.

putting this up is only 1 huge step in the right direction towards balance.



Wandering Guardian -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 3:07:54)

If you think about a realistic duel with someone, you wouldnt automatically know their specific stats in detail just from observing them.

I agree that it would make people observe before making a move and would make people be more thoughtful in build deciding, however there will always be the key identifiers, such as seeing a bounty hunter with around 125 health and 60+ energy; its automatically assumed they are strength with either smoke/mass or smoke/poison.

Im looking forward to the time when they allow sidearms to be primary weapons with specific classes and the then introduction of a snazzy 'dodge' rather than a deflect which would also be based on support.

~WG



goldslayer1 -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 3:15:43)

quote:

such as seeing a bounty hunter with around 125 health and 60+ energy; its automatically assumed they are strength with either smoke/mass or smoke/poison.

see once again if this was implemented in the beginning of the game, this wouldn't really be an issue because agility wouldn't have been here in the first place.

altho the system balance is already somewhat broken, its never to o late to fix this.
and this is the best, and fastest way without nerfing.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 11:42:48)

The day after field medic was changed the majority of decent 33 tac mercs switched to a 125+ health str build. those players weren't all following
goldslayer1 trying to copy his build. its an OBVIOUS build choice that many took. no great mind, no incredible inspired build choices, just the same
players doing what they always do, taking the path of least resistance to the new no1 build. I have no doubt build copying happens, but it is blown
way out of proportion. its a flash game, it really isn't that hard to figure out once you got 15,000+ fights. the only reason it looks like certain tac
mercs are smart is because the majority of players want to be tac mercs due to its completely unbalanced skill tree and all the easyville builds.

Goldslayer1 is no doubt a top player, elite or whatever but come on, taking all the credit for tac mercs having a new OP build is a bit lame.
Of all the cyber hunters I have seen so far, I'd say I'm Top3 and Top10 for mage but I aint gonna run around accusing everyone of copying my
awesome builds, or actually telling people how amazing I am. I definitely wouldn't do it while playing the No1 OP class + no1 OP build.

ps: My personal rank is just my opinion, I know I am probably miles out :)

@Goldslayer1: you do realise how awful the game would be if you couldn't check stats and build during combat right?
@DunkthatOreo Below: that isn't true. peace



DunkThatOreo -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 11:44:42)

Hmmmm too bad what you guys think should happen doesn't matter at all lmao



ND Mallet -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 12:08:17)

Both of you are assuming every player in the game has knowledge of every build and every weapon or at least access to a source with that knowledge. They don't. Many people don't even know we have forums or a wiki. I know for a fact that I couldn't tell you what build someone's using with Chaotic Cleaver off the top of my head. And I surely don't have the time to search the Wiki for the weapons he has equipped to know that he has a support build(I just checked the wiki and it gives 10 support). And what about enhancements? Maybe he has support build gear but everything into strength. Not every gear focuses highly on one stat. Deltas are a good example. They give high strength and support and could go either way in terms of builds.



Darkoake445 -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 12:40:16)

In my opinion, yes this game is unbalanced. When did that happen exactly? It happened with the introduction of the four turn cooldown on field medic.



PD -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 13:03:06)

^^ It started way before that.

It started when the game started.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 13:04:02)

quote:

Goldslayer1 is no doubt a top player, elite or whatever but come on, taking all the credit for tac mercs having a new OP build is a bit lame.

lol im not taking any credits for it, all i know is when delta was released. 5 minutes later i had a str tac merc build.
i later gave it it to turkishincubus and he modified it with his items. (u can ask turk he was there in the first couple minutes of delta release)

quote:

you do realise how awful the game would be if you couldn't check stats and build during combat right?

u saw its awful because u never tried. the system this way would be more fair, because it would depend on the player using more strategy and a diveresed build. basically the only real GAP would be strategy.
this is where people with good builds and strategies would shine the most.

@ND
i wasn't exactly a good build maker when i first started playing.
however i had the will to learn more and become better. and thats what i did.
if others dont want to win in such a gameplay, then its their loss.



ND Mallet -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 13:36:59)

@gold What build do I have if I use Soul Ripper, Imperial ACP and Cupid's Bane? And no looking at the wiki for the stats of the items. This is assuming you don't know the name and therefore the ability to go right to the page. If you guessed support, you're half right. Strength, half right. It was my old 2vs2 build where I used FC to add 40 to my already 60 total strength. The only reason that NPCs don't have their builds shown is that they have so few advantages. They use the same strategy 90% of the time and they can never change builds. Nor do they get to deflect at all.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 13:43:41)

@nd
well then i guess ur +1 for surprising opponent
try fighting this way before judging it.
some people told me they tried it, and they said its more fun that way. and it involves more strategy.
because at first u dont know anything about ur opponent but as the match goes on u start building up strategy as it goes.

simply said, u wont have any more strategies of smoke, strike, strike, mass.
because u need to make the strategy as u go along, if its pre planned u wont have much success.



Darkoake445 -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 19:27:31)

@PD I don't believe it was unbalanced from the start because I was here early on but during the Beta days people had fun even though it was slightly unbalanced. However it was nowhere near as unbalanced as it is today.



Algorithm -> RE: The Ugly Truth (10/15/2011 19:53:20)

It's a great game.



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