RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (Full Version)

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Remorse -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 6:43:01)

^ Or maybe we are laughing at your balance reasoning.

Perhaps it the idea that everyone will be 5 focus and that is exactly the problem, when everyone is 5 focus their will be minumum variety ruining creativity, builds and chances for non varium to survive or outsmart the opponent with a creative build..




King FrostLich -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 6:49:07)

The only reason what makes 5 focus overpowered is a Gamma Bot/Assault Bot in the build. Some non variums can play smart but the problem is, only a few can manage to do this since most of them clearly do not know the forums or are in a pretty bad shape with their builds.




DunkThatOreo -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 6:49:59)

I don't get why you all care so much, theres this other thing called real life that you should be worrying about.
This is just a game, if this game comes to being absolute trash then i guess we all have to move on, that simple.




Remorse -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:04:17)

^ yes, but unlike you i wish to try and fix it as much as I can,

Though maybe you right, perhaps I am just wasting my time.

Best I can hope for is that the balance team will at least look at wat i wrote and take it into consideration.




drinde -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:08:30)

Frankly, requirements are kinda redundant.

Freny's Supp gets Overlapped by Smoke's.

Field Medic's is Overlapped by BloodLust/Reroute.

Bezerker's is Overlapped by Hybrid Armor.

Etc.




DunkThatOreo -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:11:37)

^i've been here since the first day of beta, I know why you want to help, I feel a special connection to this game well felt a connection.
But now I'm almost done helping and playing this game because it was fun back then and now it's not. Believe it or not beta
was amazing, so many friends, creativity, fun. Now all of that is almost gone. So I'll stick around for awhile longer, if this doesn't improve
in a month I guess I'll be moving on.




Remorse -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:15:02)

^ Fair enough

Me, ill be continuing to put foward propper Balance changes in the hope that something good will be done while at the same time minimse complaints.








razackie -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:24:11)

Fact is, the requirements are little more than an annoyance for players packed with Varium, buying every weapon and armour and enhancing it so that they can still have a 5 focus build and have over 100 of whichever stat they like. Sure, non-variums can buy enhancements too, but spending 100k+ credits just to get 1 weapons fully enhanced seems like too much of an ask, only completely dedicated non-varium players can afford such an insane price. Once they've managed to get those 100k credits after at least 1000 2v2s or double the amount of 1v1s, I'm sure they'd have lost interest. Basically, the stat inflation issue is contributing more to the requirements than anything else, not the skill trees in my opinion. However, not much can be done to sort that or the balance between Variums and non-Variums, besides perhaps lowering the price of Credit enhancements.

Creativity is probably the most enjoyable aspect of the game, and I doubt the game will withhold any of that creative aspect if it continues down this path. Requirements ARE necessary, otherwise it would just lead to excessive spam of Strength / Support... Perhaps they need to be tweaked as to actually hinder these spam builds more rather than just force people into using 5 Focus builds and just compensate by amassing enhancements. I suppose from a business point of view, it will make money on the short term, but on the long term the balance issues will break the game entirely and make it more difficult to fix.

Perhaps bots could be used for the sole purpose of debuffs. Perhaps debuffs could lower focus if it makes the stat go below 45 instead of having a fixed value of focus (for example if strength was at 60 (including enhancements) and the rest were at 45, if an intimidate of 16 was applied, the focus would be reduced to 4 instead of 5). Perhaps the values for Agility could be changed to encourage creativity instead of a completely linear path to spam of support / strength and/or 5 focus, that would lead to a game that requires a lot more strategy and thought as it used to, rather than just on gear and amount of points one can put into strength whilst having moderate defenses.

As it stands, the game isn't completely devoid of creativity, I can do well enough using a support / dex hybrid build with 139 hp as a BH. My non-varium level 32 BH has a 64.5% win ratio in 2v2 and it is improving, I can still win in 1v1 against Variums if I concentrate on what I'm doing and plan my moves and study strategies, but if the game continues down the path as it is it, it will be a completely linear game with no space for high level non-Variums or in fact, no space for any class besides Tactical Mercs and what Shaniqua once said, 'Evolve or die' will apply more than ever.

The devs need to do something about this otherwise the game will continue to go downhill until it hits a brick wall.




Remorse -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:38:12)

^ My thoughts exactly.

Infact, can i put this in a quote under my topic page post?




razackie -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:47:38)

Sure, if you want.




King FrostLich -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:51:06)

They can simply change the enhancement price. I mean seriously, noob weapons having 4-5 slots that cost over 20k-30kcredits? At that point of time for a low level, that's already more than a fortune to them than it is for just enhancing weapons.




Remorse -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 7:54:00)

King it wont fix the problem,

How can you not see that without build variety non variums dont stand much of a chance at all,
I know on my noob character (lvl28) I use a dex spamming SC which can get lucky sometimes but its the variety that makes them have this chance.




razackie -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 8:23:50)

quote:

Perhaps bots could be used for the sole purpose of debuffs.


When I said that, I meant more could be introduced rather than used, perhaps that is implied though.




King FrostLich -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 8:27:39)

By simply lowering the cost for enhancement price, it does not mean it solves problems for the noobs. Some of them even have a huge amount of credits which they do not even use. Right now I have my Pirate Blunderbuss as my own physical gun and I have 2 points of it enhanced while the 4 ones weren't and it costs around 45k credits to enhance the last 4 which is EXTREMELY expensive. I understand why placing it at an expensive price is because some people are already rich and they can simply enhance weapons and armors in a flash but it is too expensive to enhance over just 4 stat points and getting 45,000 credits takes about 1407 1v1 wins if power hour is not included which is already enough to buy 3-4 weapons high leveled weapons. Enhancements were a good thing but the only thing that made it bad was because it was firstly introduced to variums which made non variums very unpleased and downhearted that their stuff needed varium to be enhanced and when the time came for it to be released as a credit option feature, it was too late for it to become pleasing because it was so expensive and seemingly useless when new gears would show up.




Remorse -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 8:44:55)

^ huh how are enhacements a good thing?

they seem to have made more problems then anything only good thing would be in the eyes of the devs as a money making tool.

I didnt mind enhacements on just primary or armour, on everything is rediculous.
Not to mention an extreme rip off and the reason why stat spamming has become too much of wel a problem ever wondered why it wasnt much of a problem in beta well thats because thier was no enhacements.

But that is unlikely to change the least they can do is solve stat spamming probelms individually without requiremnts to not restrict creativity.




King FrostLich -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 9:01:21)

Remorse, you can either choose 2 things if this were to happen.

1.) Enhancements removed - Stops stat spamming however, builds are easily copied since they dont have extra points to be redistributed if weapons or different weapons with almost similar stat points were to be the same. You will be very annoyed if 1 person or even the entire certain class you have has the same stats as you have(health, mana, skill tree and build itself) and if he/she gets lucky by crits or blocks while you don't get any luck factor against them , well so sorry for you then. If it were to be removed it in the next upcoming updates it WILL make several people very mad since most of them have their weapons fully enhanced and removing it will cause another anarchy in the forums and in the game itself with I WANT MY REFUND BACK or THIS GAME RIPPED MY MONEY OFF!!

2.) Letting it stay - Somehow widens the gap between varium and non varium but it can also make your build look creative if made wisely and with the right strategy.

I'm not saying enhancements is also a good thing nor it is a bad thing. Enhancements also preserve the weapon itself because fully enhancing a weapon takes alot of credits and that you do not want to buy another weapon over and over and over again.






IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 9:49:02)

@Remorse Frostlich is right. Enhancements are here to stay. Whether they are bad or good (great in my opinion). You can't just remove all enhancements. Their are tons of players who have all of their stuff fully enhanced. If you remove it you can expect a apocalypse. The end of ED as we know it. Their will be flaming and rioting. And the game will be get shut down. Heck people may even try to sue the game for ripping them off. Their is just no way to remove enhancements unless you wanna get rid of 70% of your players.




razackie -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 9:52:40)

Enhancements are good, just not on sidearms / auxiliaries. It's obviously saved into the database how much has been spent on enhances since it contributes to the amount of varium gained on sellback; it would be possible to remove enhances if that's what the devs wished, just refunding whatever varium has been spent on them.




ND Mallet -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 9:55:22)

@razackie The Devs will have to spend several weeks going through all the varium purchases seeing who bought enhancements on a weapon and manually refund each and every single player who's even bought one slot of varium. I would wager that number goes into the hundreds range.




razackie -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 10:03:29)

Spending several weeks balancing the game instead of spending several weeks making yet more overpowered varium gear seems worth it to me.




Drianx -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 10:10:24)

This went offtopic, but I will step in anyway.

Enhancements will not be removed, that is for sure. They are not bad, only overpriced.

In my opinion, there are worse things in the game that need to be fixed first. These are the things that require fixing:

- Class Balance, see below one suggestion -

- Every class should have one Primary passive (Hybrid, Bloodlust, Reroute) and one Secondary (Deadly Aim, Shadow Arts, one more is needed). Not two Primary passives (TLM), not two Secondary, not only one (CH). Primary passives are those that help every turn, Secondary are those that only help on some circumstances.

- Credit earning must be increased.

- Class change should be limited to one a month or even one every 3 months. But that must come after achieving a satisfactory class balance.

- Name change should go, it is just an excuse to make money. Not only TLMs are 9/10 of total lv32-34 population, but 9/10 TLMs are Sirs or Lords. LAME.

Note that these are fixes, not improvements.

Some improvements:

- Player alignment: Exile or Legion, Alignment should NOT be changed. Once you choose it, it stays with you forever.
- Exile and Legion-specific weapons and armors.
- Factions should be more rewarding towards members, not only the measly 2k rating worth of achievements- Flag Captured and World Domination.
- Improvements on Exile vs Legion war, to make it really interesting.
- Shops inside player houses - booster shop, retraining, enhancements.




razackie -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 11:35:33)

The thing is, enhancements ARE good, but only if all players have decent access to them. Not everyone can afford to buy 5,000 or 10,000 Varium at every release to enhance all the already over-powered weapons and armours. Enhancements are mainly only avaliable to the super-dedicated non-vars and to the Varium players, therefore, the requirements are hardly a hinderance to the Varium players of the EpicDuel community as they can compensate for the lost points in Strength or Support or whatever stat they choose that they needed to sacrifice to get a focus build by putting all their enhancements into that one stat. This is hardly possible for non-vars, therefore a nerf for them and if enhancement prices were changed, that would be a good place to achieve some balance between the non-var and vars and then there would be more (challenging) opposition for the TLMs; in turn making them seem less overpowered.

Just a thought.




PivotalDisorder -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 18:09:27)

@TS: If you have the solution, please go post it in the balance section or suggestions section. having to completely rebuild each class from the ground
up is what you are asking for it and it isnt going to happen. if you dont have requirements then players just abuse that fact and make stupid OP builds.
to redesign the skill trees to allow variety AND prevent any risk of unbalanced builds surfacing is a monumental task. if you wanna do it and post the
results I would love that and I am sure the ED team would find it an interesting read. personally I think it is impossible without killing the game.




Stabilis -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 18:44:19)

quote:

the game would work AS GREAT AS IT COULD BE NOW without skill requirements, weapon STAT requirements, agility, encumberance, related barriers


Tell me something where this ^ could go wrong and I'll supply a counter argument.




ND Mallet -> RE: Requiremnts are being abused! (11/10/2011 18:52:16)

@above BM abusing Strength because they have no requirements forcing them to lower their strength. TLMs abusing support by using high support items and putting everything into support since there are no weapon stat requirements.




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