=HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Ashari -> =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 4:05:40)

With the introduction of PvP comes the issue of balance (and imbalance)! Do you feel a power is underpowered? Overpowered? Is a certain combo working too well? This is the place to the discuss any PvP balance issues.

Please remember, try back up your post with numbers and statistics whenever possible.


Thanks to Plasma Charge for the topic idea.



star screamer -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 4:12:03)

My combo works great on regular enemies but I am not so sure about
on boss... I am here to ask if this build will be good enough for
PvP, will it be balanced?
Death touch 17
warrior spirit 10
Scorch 14
Molecular reconstruction 20
focus 15
I feel it won't be good enough.

I have a build planned out for when I get membership.
Now is this one balanced enough?
Life force
death touch
vampire bite
warrior spirit
focus




Antithesis -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 4:23:43)

Underpowered: Team 10 powers.


And that'd be /thread, good day everybody; this can be locked now because anything of importance has just been said.



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 5:05:43)

i agree with anti..when the lv cap rose the team ten power just lost all bite...i remember when i used animle fury by its self when i was lv 15 and i could do 150s auto..and with out i did like 70s or so. now i cuase i do 90-100 with auto and i use it only only gives me enough buff to only do 120s if that, as well i think stupi should at least miss like bash can other wise its WAY to OP for pvp...some cases ppl have used many speed buffs to make the 15 sec cooldown stupi recharge at a rate of 8-9 secs when the stun it self lasts 7-8 secs...its just no fair for other players when they can only move 2 secs at most then die off



Devastate -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 9:21:11)

Warrior's Spirit = Essential for non members. This is a good buffer skill for mental powers.



AwesomeRogue69 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 9:21:29)

Well, I agree with anti, Team 10 Powers as well as any other Rare Powers will be Under powered once the level Cap Increases. As for Over-powered, I would have to Say A good Mental Build as it can go up to 600 Damage Crits, That should be left to Death Touch and Death Touch alone imo. I would also Say Stuns are very Op as A Player called "Doomus" Uses a "Infinite Stun" set which Consists of the two Stuns and 3 Haste Buffs. Also Healing in 1 on 1 is op as someone can use all 4 Straightforward Healing Moves (Life Force, Healing Touch, Eskipda, and MR) to be Completely Immortal if you will.



Sir Night -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 10:04:02)

Darkness is very overpowered for PvP in my opinion. With it's long range a person can use it the moment they come into the match and be nearly untouchable from that point on.

Another obviously OP move is Death Touch. Penalties such as a long cooldown time, high energy cost, and even the self-inflicted DOT mean NOTHING when you can KO your opponent in 1 or 2 moves anyway.



Drakkoniss -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 13:05:09)

The only powers I have a problem with are Stupifacio and Death's Touch, with Death's Touch only if the person knows how to use it correctly.

Stupifacio's ability to automatically target a person when used makes you just have to click on it, and with a good combination, you can be nigh invincible, and able to make the opponent have litterally no chance at victory, unless there are misses, or the opponent has a very defensive build.

In addition to that, the small cooldown time allows it to be used almost instantly afterwords again, and Life Force has too high of a cooldown to counter this. The only way to do so would be to increase your dodgeing capability, get lucky and have it miss, or instakill them once the sutn has worn off, unless you have stupifacio, which also has a longer stun than Bash (and that REALLY does not seem to be 3 seconds, in practice, by the way, much of the time).

Those are my only objections/comments for the moment.

...

Edit: It bears mentioning that you cannot attack enemies that are flames, which gives an unfair advantage in PvP, and the auto attack has horrible targeting capabilities, especially with the fact that the charging motiion you use to chase after them does not always leave you in a possition to hit them with auto attacking, nor does it follow them if they move, which makes fighting them extremely difficult, especially since many powers also have short ranges, although I suppose that is a seperate issue.



Antithesis -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 20:44:08)

Using a ton of haste moves, it is possible to make Stupefacio's stun last indefinitely. This is irritating and incredibly overpowered. It needs a longer cooldown.

Cheers.



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 20:45:10)

darkness only lowers accercy by like 10-20% at most its not enough to hinder your untouchable as for its range i think its fair as well..this skill is often easy to work around when by its self

as well war spirt is a melee buffer...not a mental

and any power in game can auto target a person cept skills like war spirt uncanny and stuff like that

death touch is shadow type...nothen buffs shadow type yet and its fair be cuase of such HIGH cooldown rate...thiers plenty of other ways to pull of those numbers at a much faster rate....

stupi's cooldown is of 15 secs when it lasts 7-8 secs on its own

and darkness lighting reflexes and foresight can all increase evasion

bash dose only last 3 secs...its ucase of the rush of the pvp it makes it seem to last longer

i noticed the no path found glich a lot in pvp...when thier wasn othen in the way i would press 1 to quickly go thier and says "no path found" soo i would just click the land around them to quickly get their...still though..some cases of auto failing even at suck close range...

btw anti i gave a detailed discribion about the stupi stun spam...so far me and doomus are the only ones to figer it out and use it...i call it...god mode 8D



UnityDestroyer -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 20:48:54)

We probably (or we can balance it properly) by making an area for PvP for members and non-members, because some mem powers are OP so when a NM vs M begins M surely will win because of the OP member power.

For an example:

Life Force which is a rare power, I don't know if it's member, but I don't know if it's SC. It's an overpowered power since it is the most strongest healing power.



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/19/2011 21:07:05)

actuly it can be gotten at the map /join mall

and espikea and healing touch can heal more then life force in the time of the cooldown of life force

life force is a nice skill only when someone debuffs your healing via melee debuffer...other then that its pretty much worthless

i also found only SC and high rep moves are the stronger ones...mem skills are just as weak as non mem skills...i dont even use mem skills in my pvp set ups and often times most of my skills are at least 5 lv below my current lv of 20



Devastate -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 9:15:15)

I'm officially a stunner now. Call it cheap, but I think it's fun.



Blademaster Valu -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 9:17:27)

As soon as PvP opens for Non-mems, Imma do a Tanker build with some stuns



Drakkoniss -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 11:10:53)

To be fair, Linklink, I know you are wrong on the auto-targeting from experience. Bash most certainly will not auto-target an opponent, or if it can, it is because of a glitch, and it does it quite seldomly. Also, Warrior Spirit and Uncanny Focus DO auto target, which is shown by the fact that if you use a buff with nothing targeted, you in turn are targeted afterwords. It's just that the target on the enemy takes priority in combat, and it is not overwriten.

Oh, nad I know where you're coming from on that one. It most certainly DOES need a longer cooldown.

And yes, I realize you can do the same damage faster, naturally, as you should know, if you remember my build.

And yes, I hate the No Path Found glitch too. :/ That, along with the fact that it says you are out of range unless you are exactly to the right or left of them, and not to the left and up or down, ect., makes Auto-attacking in PvP highly unrelyable, which makes me quite disappointed in that regard.

I do know that you can make builds with higher dodge rates to counter that, or something of the sort. It's just that it can be very annoying if you are in, say, Team Match, or Battle Royale, and you get ganked because you get stunned without seeing an enemy, or having any evasion buffs.

Life Force is a member power, and yeah, I can understand why you want a non-member only PvP map. I personally doubt that's going to happen, at least for a while, but yeah, it could be a very nice addition to the game.

To be fair, Link, it's not worthless when you're fighting a boss... and yeah, I use a few lv 15 powers, too. They tend to be the best, which is sad because they're less effective at lv 20 than they would have been.

I still dislike the fact that the staff coded the game to actually make lower level powers work worse at higher lvs, instead of just letting them become obsolete.

@Devastate: lol



CrownedPrince -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 12:00:08)

Just balance Stupefacio. PERIOD. That's it.



Celestin123 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 15:53:36)

There are actually many things that could be changed about PvP.

My biggest concern... is stuns. People often complain when one uses Stupefacio even though they're perfectly fine
with bash. I suppose making Stupefacio's cooldown longer would be one way to go about that problem...
but I think it would be better to just ban all use of stuns, in PvP anyways, with normal monsters it would be fine.

Often I'd be stunned when I was just about to use a skill and the skill wouldn't activate, yet I would still waste
energy and the skill would go into cooldown depsite the fact that it didn't work. I don't think that's fair.

I suppose you don't have to ban stuns if you just balance them but it would be much easier if stuns were just
banned from PvP. It's my opinion, people. Please do not get angry with it.

My other concern is when people use very strong moves like Death Touch. Death Touch has the capability to take out
most of your hp with just one hit and that's not fair. Even with its energy, cooldown and the fact that it drains your health, like I
recall someone mentioning before, it doesn't make a difference if your opponent dies before the energy and cooldown negatively affects your performance.

That is all for now. Thank you for your time.



Drakkoniss -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 16:05:38)

I'd be fine with banning stuns in PvP, if it came to it.

And yes, I hate the effects of using skills while stunned...

And true, DT is a wee bit overpowered still, IMO. It can be worked arouns in some cases, but if it's a 1h KO, then BOOM, you're screwed.



Antithesis -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 16:07:08)

I'd be fine if stuns didn't make my abilities go on cooldown when they don't even do anything.
Let's fix the lag issue. Cheers.



countlord -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 16:25:14)

Couldn't they implement different choices for 1vs1? Like maybe a no stun version 1vs1, or one with double hp, to make the match longer and prevent the 1 hit KO builds?



AwesomeRogue69 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 18:31:15)

Yes, I have to agree with Cele, Stuns should Be banned. Today I fought against A Player Named "Black Tome". His Build is Stupe, Then Death Touch (Mostly Likely Level 20), Then if the Enemy is Not Dead, Abrda Cadabra Plus Warrior Spirit. Anyone won't be able to survive That especially Since you're Stunned and Can't heal. I've battled him several times afterwards, It appeared as if who got the First move wins The match. If I got the first Move, He would Miss constantly, thus Breaking the flow of His Build and I win. If He got his Stun in first, and All His Fatal Blows Connected Then I lose. Overall, I would have to Say That I'm fairly Neutral with Stuns as It gives me more of A Challenge, always having to take Stupe's Cool-down as My Saving Grace and Spamming as many moves as I can during the 15 seconds. But I wouldn't mind It being banned, but then why don't we just Ban everything huh? Healing, Death Touch, Darkness, you name it. We would only be left With Auto Attack as un-banned.
quote:

or one with double hp, to make the match longer and prevent the 1 hit KO builds?

It'd be a Lot more Easier for everyone if they Just Make PvP Amulets/Necklaces but then if The Necklaces Granted a lot of Hp, It would cause all Healing Moves to get A little More Useless So People would Request That They Buff all Healing Powers etc.



countlord -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 18:51:21)

If they added healing amulets like in AQW, with members and nonmember amulets, then it'd be even more unbalanced. It'd be a pain as a nonmember fighting someone with 500 more hp than you.



AwesomeRogue69 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 19:07:49)

@Countlord Yes. It would seem That PvP amulet's should only Come around for when Stats or Enchantments are released, as Putting myself in A Non-members Shoes now, I'm Dueling Somebody who has 500 HP more then me would be very Unbalanced, also If I Was fighting a Member who's using Life Force... Not good all. The only thing that would Be alright is if the Staff Decide to Nerf DT Like Defenders "Retaliation" Move in AQW, so That it does Moderate Damage to Players, I suppose. That way it will Stop the Instant Kills and give people more of a Chance to Recover from it.



Sir Night -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/20/2011 23:02:06)

quote:

I wouldn't mind It being banned, but then why don't we just Ban everything huh? Healing, Death Touch, Darkness, you name it.


Exactly. Stunning might seem cheap at first glance, but not when you think that people are also instantly killing with moves like Death Touch, trying to be indestructible with crazy heal builds, and making themselves practically untouchable using powers like Darkness and Foresight. Right now the only way to win is to be cheap and hope that you can pull off your cheapness before your opponent pulls off theirs.

Hopefully the game will become more balanced and the stronger powers/builds will become more punishable.



darklord841 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/21/2011 4:04:17)

IMPORTANT


This is Doomus btw

I long retired from that build that was so 2 weeks ago. I admit it is very overpowered and i only use two haste buffers. Now i am using a build with no stun and i am still almost unkillable even by mental builds. Actually its not the stun that should be nerfed (it is actually quite balanced) it should be the frekin haste skills.



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