RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/18/2012 17:15:39)

yeah i dont really see a point towards agility.
it was placed there to stop high hp heal loopers
except field medic been given a 4 turn cool down, and it no longer works with support. (its lvl scaled)

so agility should
A) be lvl scaled
or
B) removed
or
C) increasing the amount of hp by alot. (120 for 100 agility.

thats what comes to the top of my head atm.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/18/2012 21:22:24)

Agility is used to make up for the fact that health is better than investing into dex or tech. It takes over 3 points to increase defense or resistance while you would get 6 health or more from using those points into health. If a battle lasts for 5 turns then by taking 5 points out of tech or dex, and only removing one defense on either side, then one would get 10 health while only losing out on 5 health in a battle at most because of the lack of one point.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/18/2012 21:38:42)

Healing is weak and if not weak, energy inefficient. Like a sports car. Agility and field medic no longer agree on anything, so why is agility still in the house?



BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/18/2012 22:22:43)

Agility make sense because it works like stat punishment like other stats (STR DEX TEC SUP which at higher that give less bonus)
However I think it would be a lot better if they make Agility give HP and Energy give MP and scale like other stats. Also I prefer items giving HP and MP (Agility and Energy) as well so we can have more type of gears



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/19/2012 3:26:31)

If bonues stats were negated from enhancements were removed then both diminishing returns and agiaity could be removed.


It is the result of a unncecsary feature witch does little but rip us off and ruin balance.



I sugest they change how enhacements work to change them to be changeable stats rather then additional stats.

WHat does it mean?

Make the amount of enheacments on a wepon indicate how many times you can arrange your wepon's stats.

EG. you have a frostbane wont to make it into a strength wepons you could use the 10 enahcments slots to take away 8 of the slots from support and 2 from technology (2+8=10)
and switch them to strength so it would have 10 strength, 8 dex and 6 tech.
NOTE: It will note make spamming any more pwoerful then it is because the current sytem means you could have 10 strength 8dex 8tech and 8 support giving players no negative effect from spamming into strength which is what makes power builds so oped.

It will remove the necesitty to enahcements aswell to make this feature optional rather then a must have.

It would also increase the purchases on wepons as buyin wepons with better stats and power may be better and cheaper rather then keeping old enhaced ones.


To do the chnage however they should put an enhacment sellback on wepons to make things fair.

I think it would solve many balance issues with current power builds such as many strength builds which have far too many stats and are able to sustain high defence aswell as extreme power.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/19/2012 11:38:48)

You already gave that idea but I STILL like it. May I add to your post, Remorse? As for the costs... if there must be one, can be 250-750 varium to "unlock" the weapon. Unlocking a weapon allows free use of stat point allocating.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/19/2012 11:39:50)

Come on people. The development staff worked very hard to give balance to the game, and you are still crying. I think the best class is ANY class. It doesn't depend on the class, it depends on the person PLAYING the class. You say Cyber is OP? Ok. Have you fought an extremely smart mercenary or a smart bounty hunter yet? I agree that a lot of Cybers are strength and dexerity builds, but aren't a lot of the other classes STRENGTH and DEXERITY builds?

Personally, to beat a strength or dexerity cyber, you need to be smart. Try to protect yourself and get rid of their energy.

Me? I'm a balanced Cyber Hunter. I have 45 on all skills plus about 25 on each one. AND I have no robot. And I still can beat a strength Cyber Hunter.

Balance isn't gone in this game, people. You need to be smart when fighting an OP build. You need to find the weakness. Be smart and you'll be the best player.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/19/2012 12:19:56)

@greenrain1,

I have indeed posted this idea and thanks for apreciating it. I rewrote the idea because I'm not sure that people understand the negative impact of enhacments fully so Il proberly keep tossing it around here and there.

As for your sugestion, As much as I would like to reduce the cost, Im afraid it would proberly have more chance of succses if it was left at the current costs.
BUT, dont forget that enhacments will no longer be necesary so instead of thinking of how overpriced it is think more of how you could easily avoid that cost by making smart wepon purchases.
Thanks for the sugestion though.


Also the way the enhacment cost apreciates works really well with my system because often people may only want to change a few stats on their wepons and have a reasonable cheap change.
However if players want to totally change their wepon and sort of abuse the feature ,it will cost them alot of credits/varium.
Therefore encoraging people to buy new wepons constantly rather then keeping the old ones so hopefully not much income is lost to the devs in this change, if it were to happen, it will also allow players to have the freedom of using all their inventory agian, personally I hate being stuck with using the 1 set of wepons I have enhanced simply because its too expansive to enhacne them all.
With this change everyone will be able to use a varity of wepons to best suit their build making stat placements on wepons much more important thus increasing the value of rares.
Which should also lead to more income generated through pruchases of inventory slots in the long run.




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/19/2012 21:59:20)

@remorse If they made Enhancements move stats around instead of allowing extra points then it would make most people rage. People bought the slots so they could A. Get more stats and B. Be able to use their rares for a longer period of time(some rares with enhancements outclassed the newer items easily). Sure it would make things more fair between non varium and variums but upsetting close to the entire community for something that most people won't notice(but the ones who do will probably enjoy it after their anger of being robbed of hard earned credits so they could patch holes in their build using those extra stats) just doesn't seem like a wise idea to me. A change like this would drive away more people than it would draw in.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/19/2012 22:10:16)

If that is the case then what the staff can decide upon is making all existing weapons 100% sellback before this update is implemented. That way, nobody's items gets touched by ruin when enhancements become downgraded.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/20/2012 0:48:09)

ND,
I have to disagree, it will half the cost of the game and fix balance aswell as encorage non variums to play and you think it will drive people away...

You forgot the main reason why people enhance, simply to get to the same battle standardd as eveyone else , but at what cost...
Enjacememts dont really sustain rares if they were intended to then they could of just given them more stats, the only sence enhacements sustain wepons is by making it too dam expenaive to be able to afford new stuff.
People needing more stats for builds is also flawed if everyone has less stats then the can use the aame build but with less stats in each catagory so if exreme power builds wanna pile then they would have to sacrifise defence making them counterable evwn if they start.
Like greenrain said if people really wanted thefe money back thenan enhacmt sell back close to 100% could be in place
If it lead to the removal of agailty and diminshing returns on top of the reduced costs and more insentive to buy mew stuff i fail to see it scaring people away at all, excspt for the powerbuilds who enjoy effortless wins.
Exuse spelling typed in car on phone.



supermasivo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/20/2012 16:54:57)

I have to add a thing here... everybody flame on tlm or ch... has anybody take a look at leaderboard? lot of days ive seen "Xplayer class BLOODMAGE" 2 massive damage unblockable their gun and that fire ball making over 40+ on near 40 def... 3-4 round kills? pfff



steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/20/2012 20:34:18)

Blood mage: I lose so much blood mage because fireball is str and unblockable. it can do 75+ damage before defense and wraith you like 40+ damage,
Then they either use gun or Berzerker and that have + damage like 45% more damage and 6+ damage. It powerful, even if they have no emp.

Every hit they do they get health and for me is very powerful. It kind of like bounty hunter.
Different is they are more hitting and more blocking.
Every hit they gain hp and mostly every hit is unblockable theyre going to be so powerful.


Fireball and berzerker both have dex requirement and i think for me, fireball need to require tech or supp because most bloodmage are str and dex build. Support for gun is good.
make is like 16 stat requirement at lvl 1 and 43 stats requirement for lvl 10. They will make it weaker and tank even more



Goony -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/21/2012 2:47:15)

If you want to buff intimidate, here's another idea. Intimidate for strength and stops regenerative effects for 3 turns. That would include, frenzy, static charge, reroute and blood lust! Seems fair to mercenaries and blood mages who can't do those things (yah, ik reflex boost and bloodlust on BM).



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/21/2012 3:16:58)

^I like that


Yeah and regarding enhancements. There should be a cap of 10 for credit enhancements that are transferrable and a cap of 15 for varium enhancemnts.



rajkumar -> Why Cyber Hunter way to Overpowered After the new update (1/21/2012 6:49:48)

Cyber hunter way to over powered After the new update.


REASON


1. They got Malf which can lower any player resistance minimum by -30 which will make player so weak against them.
2.Plasma Armour which gives them extra resistance.
3.Defence Matrix which protects them from smoke so easily.
4.Static Charge which helps them to regain there Mana again and again.
5.Emp Grenade which deals huge mp damage to opponent making him weak and unable to use his/her skills.
6.Shadow arts which gives them huge chances to get more blocks.
7.The most deadly skill (Massacre) Which deals a huge 50% damage in its 1 level.
Am i forgetting something more!!

Out of this skills they dont even use most of those skill in max levels.

How they use this power.?
They make a build which is full of strength and defence and they dont even have to think of resistance coz they already have there plasma armour to protect them from any energy weapons.
I have fought many ch nowdays after the new release and find out that they have got much Overpowered after the new release.

So don't you all think its is not fare to let this new class to be Overpowered :D

Merged this topic in to Balance Discussion, since this is where it belongs ~Lycus



RageSoul -> RE: Why Cyber Hunter way to Overpowered After the new update (1/21/2012 7:28:11)

Of course it's not , and besides , they weren't really UPed before they got Plasma Armor . The reason why they're seemingly ( read : at first , it is ) UP is because of TLM being OPed before . True they were at the first ( i'm talking about the very 1st time they were released ), but after receiving their Static Charge , buff , it was fine .



SouL Prisoner -> RE: Why Cyber Hunter way to Overpowered After the new update (1/21/2012 7:38:13)

CH is not over powered , they r juzz fun!!



DestruRaGe -> RE: Why Cyber Hunter way to Overpowered After the new update (1/21/2012 7:38:29)

Ok youre a TLM.

1. smoke is better than malf cause it makes the smoked person block more also tlm can easly counter malf by putting on bloodshield which last too long -.- or using assault bot to debuff.
2. oh well and you got mineral armor that gives you def! and ofcourse max plasma armor req. 43 tech...
3. they need nice support or a few points in defense matrix to make it effective.. it doesnt last very long though.
4. It is blockable! Only if CH got very high dex it doenst get blocked much. When blocked CH must wait 2 turns to use it again.. you as tlm should use atom smasher to stop them from using massacre or somethin.
5. Yea it is the best energy burner but to make it really powerful CH must invest in tech and skill points in skill.
6. Pure luck! SA is bs in my opinion...
7. lv 1 mass isnt really powerful... its not gonna do huge dmg on you when u got decent def or res.




rajkumar -> RE: Why Cyber Hunter way to Overpowered After the new update (1/21/2012 8:05:01)

quote:

you as tlm should use atom smasher to stop them from using massacre or somethin.


After getting the requirement of plasma armour they put there whole points in dex and strength that means a Ch have minimum 24-29+9 defence or more If i guessed correctly. That means by adding SA and The player defence his block chances increase more!!
quote:


Pure luck! SA is bs in my opinion...


It is not pure luck it's a usefull skill which gives you block chance and stun grenade stun chances.

quote:

lv 1 mass isnt really powerful... its not gonna do huge dmg on you when u got decent def or res.

Did you forgot they can use massacre in there 3 turn that means when they use technician they can use there massacre with it and it deals huge damage even in level 1.


I did mistake again i should have post it above !!!



DestruRaGe -> RE: Why Cyber Hunter way to Overpowered After the new update (1/21/2012 8:37:09)

Im telling you from my experience that SA ist a realiable skill. Go try high dex build with it and without it... random luck man.

quote:

Did you forgot they can use massacre in there 3 turn that means when they use technician they can use there massacre with it and it deals huge damage even in level 1.


you mean when they malf you? Omg then debuff yourself with bot or blood shield or get more res if you getting pwned by lv1 mass... Youre a varium player idk if youre fully enchanted but you
definitely have more stats than me - a non var player.... so cmon



rajkumar -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/21/2012 8:59:26)

How this build looks to you

quote:

you mean when they malf you? Omg then debuff yourself with bot or blood shield or get more res if you getting pwned by lv1 mass... Youre a varium player idk if youre fully enchanted but you
definitely have more stats than me - a non var player.... so cmon


See this build and tells me can you beat her without luck!!!



Xendran -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/21/2012 9:15:21)

That build isn't particularly great, there are many ways to beat it easily without luck.



rajkumar -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/21/2012 10:13:09)

Tell me how!!

I am curious to know :-D



Xendran -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/21/2012 10:17:36)

Logic. How would YOU deal with a high dex build with 109hp?



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