Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (Full Version)

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Jatar The Legend -> Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 12:19:14)

Once again, EpicDuel has created a daily competition in which large amounts of varium are required. I see people on the Legion leaderboards every day with 40,000+ war points (today it is Rooster with over 80,000 war points), which is impossible unless you use super war bombs. I did a little math:

I can kill Fenris 6 times in 5 minutes. Using my Frost Reaper armor, that gives me 24 points for every kill, so 6x24=144 war points every five minutes. 60 minutes divided by 5 minutes=12 "Periods" of five minutes an hour, so by doing 144x12 (which equals 1728) that will give me about an average of what I can do per hour without stopping for anything. Now, 1728x24 (which is technically the amount of war points I COULD receive if I fought for 24 hours without stopping for food, bathroom breaks, or to stretch) is 41472.

So, about 41,472 war points is the most I could earn in one day by fighting..Of course, Id get a ton of war bombs, but I think this puts the whole Frysteland competition in perspective.

Now, I'd like to know if there's a single person out there who would seriously fight for 24 hours without any sort of break. People don't need to fight NPC's, when you've got an easier, expensive way to win.

10,000 varium will buy you 200 super war bombs. Assuming 20 of them go critical (giving around 300 war points per crit), and 180 don't (giving around 200 war points per bomb), that gives you around (6,000 + 36,000) 42,000 war points for 10,000 varium. So instead of doing 24 hours of fighting, I can just spend $50 of varium instead.

Does this not anger you?

To know that people who can't afford to spend this much varium on the competition can't win?

I know it makes me mad. I've planned to go for this competition 4 times, and each time my hopes have been dashed due to heavy spenders early on.

This competition should be about who wants it the most, not how much money you can spend.

If you put a limit of how much war bombs you can buy a day, that would make this competition much more fair. I find it ridiculous that you have to pay to win in every aspect of the game, please at least leave one fair so that everyone has a chance.

20 super war bombs a day (if ALL of them go criticial) would give you a maximum number of 6,000 war points a day. Now that seems a little more fair, don't you think?



Wootz -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 12:30:30)

I totaly agree with you Jari. Even some Mods said that the system is unfair.
I hope they award you the War Hero cheevo personally!



Jatar The Legend -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 12:36:38)

^I'm Jatar, but if you want to compare me to Jari that's fine. :D



Wraith -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 12:56:18)

Nice to see ya Jatari!

Yeah, the system is unfair.

What I would want is the BombBot to have 10k HP. We could bomb that. After all, other nations COULD bomb wherever they wanted, not just the HQs.

The BombBot needs 30 mins to recover. Jari woulda won if that had happened.



Basicball -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 13:00:22)

lolz at mixup xD

@speedy: even though jari worked hard for it, he didn't win it, and thus shouldn't recieve it. i agree that he very much deserves it, buthe didn't actually won it, it sux, but it's just the way it is.
anyway, this is just my oppinion, don't pay to much attention to it xD


On-topic: 41.472 WP + 288 bombs * 65 average dmg = 60192 WP

if you save up some bombs from the previous days, i say it's definitely possible, though pretty hard, and impossible if you're competing against someone with 50K var who desperately wants to win it.

Conclusion: yes, it is very hard to win without super bombs, BUT it isn't impossible.

i agree the system is faulty though :3



Sipping Cider -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 13:05:06)

I actually don't think the system is that unfair after you did the math.
To be more realistic I'm going to say you farm for 22 hours, which leaves time for bomb dropping and bathroom breaks. Let's assume you eat while playing.

So 1728•22=38,000

In one hour you fight fenris 72 times so in 22 hours you have fought him 1584 times. With a 16% drop rate that's about 253 war bombs.

Assuming 23 are critical and do 100 damage while 130 do 50 damage, that's 8800 War points.

So you get more like 46,800 war points from playing 24 hours not quite non-stop.


So it still comes to around the same, 24 hours of play or 50$ of work.

Let's say the average person in this bad economy can make 10$ an hour. That means you can work for 5 hours which is no fun or play a game for 24 hours all for the same effect.

In my opinion that is pretty fair, and this is coming from someone who has a simple 26,000 war points only.



PD -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 13:32:54)

It took you this long to figure out?

Someone's a little late on the boat...



ngshuyi94 -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 13:35:23)

@ sun
Yes, it is dam fair that i would like to c u win without the super war bomb.

Show it to us, dont just talk.

Action speak louder than words.

Im not trying to say that its impossible. Im trying to say that the system is broken and it shouldnt be the way it is.

This is not even paying for an ADVANTAGE, it is paying for a sure-win, if u have enough money which is probably a yes.



Wootz -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 13:41:35)

Whoops. Lol. /DatProFaec



Jatar The Legend -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 13:54:23)

PD: Nah, I just thought that it would be resolved in the releases after the original. Clearly, it's not.

Yeah, I did the math as I was typing this post, so it was a little frantic. Yeah i didn't include the war bombs, but the point is is that this isn't a competition you can win realistically without the use of varium. The odds are just too low.

Sun: The majority of the players in this game (correct me if I'm wrong here) are teens and children. Younger players don't work, and some aren't allowed to buy varium. Wasting 10,000 varium on a stupid achievement is outrageous, especially when there are players willing to waste TRIPLE that!



Sipping Cider -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 14:00:13)

@ndshuyi94

If your just saying its impossible to win without varium against someone who really wants to win who has varium, I agree.

If someone has the money and wants to win badly enough, they will beat someone without varium 100% of the time for the war event.

But does that make the system broken?

I think not, if your willing to spend 50 or even 100 dollars for an achievement you want it really badly, and the competition should be won by who wants it the most.

Also, this is paying for an advantage, not a sure win. I have seen a good amount of people spend money on the competition only to be beat by someone who payed a little more or fought a little longer.

In addition, this is not the first time an achievement has only been available to those who pay. Year of the dragon, master of disguise, and artillary master are all examples where you needed to pay money to get them.

@jatar

Very good point, although you might be surprised how many adults do play. And as you put it they are wasting 50 or more dollars for a stupid achievement. I think they should at least get the achievement from all that wasted money.

It is tough for the kids who aren't allowed to get varium, but what kid would be allowed to play long enough to beat a teenager or adult for the achievement?



Clutch -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 14:21:10)

Well, thats just it, you 'kids' have more time on your hands therefore you can put more hours into it. Its called opportunity cost of time, as a college student, my opportunity cost of time is higher than say a kids. Basically, the time I would have spent playing for 24 hours is much more valuable to me than $50. Therefore I would rather spend the money than play for 24 hours. I DO agree that it has been abused like crazy and that there should be a limit of war bombs, but that the limit should be something much higher than 20, something around 100 seems pretty fair because if you don't wanna spend the money, then you should have to play about twice as much as someone willing to spend the money.



Jatar The Legend -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 14:38:08)

But that ain't fair Clutch. If someone like Smackie El Frog, who I think had like 100k war points one day, wants to spend that much money to win one day, nobody else has a chance. If someone is willing to go 24 hours w/o stopping to win but can't because someone is willing to spend $50+ so they can win, is that fair? I getcha on everything else, 20 is pretty low for a limit



Joe10112 -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 14:42:46)

I still don't quite like the fact that this is mostly Varium-Based. I actually quit ED for a span of 1-2 months due to TLM overpowering everyone, Varium vs. NonVarium unbalance.

And although this war is very very interesting and fun, I thought about what Jatar said (before reading this), and I still think ED is too much Var based. I mean, AQW is (I feel) kind of taking a turn towards AC items more and more, but recently have been implementing Member Perks, which was their main priority. I think ED is on a similar note, they leaned a little too much to Var players, and need to give a little more to the Non-Vars. A non-var would have to spend 24 hrs straight playing for what $50 could buy. If I found work at minimum wage, working for 24 hrs straight would net me at least $100 (very low estimate), which would be 48 hrs of playing ED straight. This all assumes I have the equipment and stuff, which I don't.

So it is unbalanced toward Varium Players still.



Sipping Cider -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 14:47:35)

@ joe

The thing is, it's work which is not fun vs playing a game which is supposed to be fun, why else would you play?

I think that makes the fewer hours if work fair to the longer hours of play.



rej -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 14:55:15)

Hopefully, for the last week of the Frysteland war, the bomb bot goes rare (without any sort of warning, that was greedy rich players couldn't hoard bombs the day before the bot disappears)




Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 14:55:29)

When we view this daily, it is provides convenience and grueling work ethics. Some may use one or the other, and even, both. For future events like this, there should be more firm limits. The Super bomb should have an hourly limit. If one has the finances to invest in the current system, it provides a major advantage over players who don't have those means.

The difference in the war is the balance of the investors who spent varium for super bombs over the ones who have not. The effort should be a priority over convenience.

While convenience is an option, it should be used within limits. If a player has to log in every hour to use their super bombs, that will take some effort, and planning. And using super bombs for insta-win will not be an easy option.

With this event, I am extremely pleased with this community style play. I personally feel, with a few minor constraints and adjustments, future events will provide more multi-tier enjoyment. Well-done for the entire staff for this community event, and its progression.

Convenience should never compromise Strategy.



Xendran -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 16:39:49)

Unfortunately, convenience has compromised strategy in the biggest part of EpicDuel: the duels.

My current build is literally just a gi-friggen-gantic varium gear strength spam with level 5 massacre, and its win rate is insanely high, even though it's gimped compared to level 34 builds.
Strategy? Same turn order for every. single. match.
No way should this work as well as it does.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 16:52:30)

All ED community deserve every unfair thing , whenever i open a thread that is completly wrong in this game there is always some *clever* ppl that write ridiculous thing so im sick of trying to open ppl's eyes and make them see the truth but you guys are so naive, You guys deserve Pay To Win, Balance problems between classes, Balance problems with Luck, Bugs, Glitches, Delayed updates, Lag, High prices.

So live with these or simply quit.



Laces -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 17:46:05)

Several things need to happen to make this fair:

1. Increase the cost of the superbombs to 200 varium.
OR
2. Make a separate competition for non-variums, but thats kind of discriminating etc.
OR
3. Take out the superbombs completely from now till the end of the war. I personally don't see this happening though.



Skillsaw01 -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 17:53:37)

Hey Jar Jar, didn't i tell you the exact same stuff, almost word for word just the other day. u little plagiarist lol. Im glad u put the info to work though. Kudos



Infinity Everlasting -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 17:55:25)

@Wraith: that is a great idea!!!

Also, I don't think this should ever come to you as a surprise, which is sorta sad, but look at all the recent updates, other than new var weapons, features like war points all require enormous amounts of financial input.



charwelly -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 21:11:59)

I totally agree right now been fighting for maybe three hours all together and i only have 1840 war points



King FrostLich -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 21:46:19)

This all started back when agility took place in Gamma. Honestly speaking, I'd prefer long fights with high health that symbolizes Epic Duel's name. And about the war, those who are in Legion that are not willing to use their money for dropping bombs are those who play fair and square.

I find it funny that this war will end with Legion winning because they just drop bombs in a place. I don't know why Titan and Nightwraith made a Super War Bomb in the first place but it really did ruin the daily war hero achievement.



Algorithm -> RE: Frysteland War Hero Achievement about Varium, not fighting NPC's and Missions (1/7/2012 21:58:21)

*Hands tissue*



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