Ok so i changed to cyber.. (Full Version)

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Rui.. -> Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 3:39:25)

After playing a Tech mage for the last 5 months i decided to change to a cyber.

The class does not impress me much at all.

Bludgeon was an epic awesome skill that does crazy damage at level 1 .. cybers got what ??

Static charge is a fail skill cause it forces all cybers to go dex else its a fail and a dead game.
compared to frenzy .. i would say Frenzy at max is way better than static cuz u can smoke ur opponent and get back 45 health on rage .. what do cybers get ??? a block and 22 energy .. -.-

plasma sheild .. i need to add 43 tech to get 12 resistance and the only skill thats improved by it is a plasma grenade that does almost 3 damage every time i use it ..

Shadow arts .. its straight useless .. i tried a max arts with 55 dex .. i got 0 blocks in 10 games straight .. buy when i go 120 dex i get 5 blocks in a row.. so yeah not much a cyber can do else go all dex ..

the way i see some changes need to be made..

1. Plasma grenage to be made as good as a plasma bolt ?
2. Shadow arts to improve crit and block rather than stun cuz we never use the stun grenade.
3. Static to be used as a skill that converts 10 health to 30 energy at level 10, so it does not miss. and frenzy like wise 10 energy to 30 health with a 3 turn cooldown.
4. super charge gives back health, surgical gives back health, massacare for a bounty(bloodlust) gives back health. i guess copy pasting skills from old classes is not good for the new classes. massacare for cybers needs to be changed to imba(more/additional) damage or change it so it gives back a little health.
5. Give cybers a physal damage skill. every class has a phy and energy skill .. what do cybers have??

Overall cybers are good for boss cuz bosses got no brains .. i could solo any boss but fail against players cuz static goes block block block ..

This is not a balance discussion or a suggestion thread.. its just open to discussion.

Keep the conversation strictly to the topic and if u feel something is overpowered yeah EXPLAIN .. thank you.




ngshuyi94 -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 3:48:41)

Cyber Hunter is a fine class. It is a better class in-game, used by most of the good players.

Theres is no need to change anything, it will just make it more OPed. Like u said if ur static gets blocked then just get more dex.

I c no point in a thread like this complaining about Cyber Hunter, right now the classes that need a change are the Mercenary(normal) and blood made need an energy stealing skill. Thats all.



Rui.. -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 3:59:12)

let me be clear.. i am not complaining .. moreover you fail to explain how OP.. and more likely comments like urs that kill every useful thread.

Every class has the opportunity to be diverse. i could go str mage or a tech mage or a dex mage and still pwn.
I would go a tech merc or a str merc and still pwn. and so on and so forth..

I have no other way to play a cyber then go dex cuz i lack reflex boost ..

please keep the comments useful and try to add value.

Moreover do not bring in discussion about other classes.. this is strictly discussion on cybers. all ur other comment on other classes can go elsewhere. Thank u ..



BlueKatz -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 4:25:44)

CH is horrible: It's OP and uncreative, all you do is putting into STR and DEX

quote:

plasma sheild .. i need to add 43 tech to get 12 resistance and the only skill thats improved by it is a plasma grenade that does almost 3 damage every time i use it ..

43 Tech is... a lot?
What is this? Another STR abuse build with another 24 Sup?

quote:

Static charge is a fail skill cause it forces all cybers to go dex else its a fail and a dead game.
compared to frenzy .. i would say Frenzy at max is way better than static cuz u can smoke ur opponent and get back 45 health on rage .. what do cybers get ??? a block and 22 energy .. -.-

Well... same can be said about Frenzy being blocked you know...
Also 45 HP requiring 18 MP and 22 MP without any cost is not bad at all (not to mention rage Charge)



Darkwing -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 5:19:43)

well u just want to make cyber stronger( from ur post). It's already the best class at tanking ( SA+ passive armor+ defence matrix), great damage(massacre+ malfunction+ multi). And yes, SC gets blocked.....but if it was unblockable u would have unlimited energy.



Oba -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 6:10:03)

Just go back to TM then, instead of complaining on an already great class..

quote:

Every class has the opportunity to be diverse. i could go str mage or a tech mage or a dex mage and still pwn.
I would go a tech merc or a str merc and still pwn. and so on and so forth..

I have no other way to play a cyber then go dex cuz i lack reflex boost ..


As a CH, you can go str + high hp. High dex build with SA, multi and malf. 5 focus, as that works for almost every class, if you have a bot that is. And last but not least support build. Its you who not have tryied things out before whining..



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 6:43:07)

I can say CH is still not a good class, TM and TLM are way better than CH

The main problems of CH:
1) Massacre become horrible after % skill nerf, the idea of the % skills was getting high dmg with less skill pts but now it changed and it has high support requirement

2) Not enough skill points, after maxing(or 8-9 lvl) plasma armor and static charge you will not have enough skill pts for other skills.

3) Shadow arts is the most useless skill i ever seen, if your oponent use unblockables its useless + its not giving enough block for the skill pts we spent on it.

4) Malf is not decrease oponent's block chance like smoke

but this doesnt mean it is underpowered, you can still win other players with it easyly. Unlike most ppl i think its not even close being OP.



theholyfighter -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 7:05:02)

Cybers ARE'T OPed. Even if I have 20-30 more Dex than my opponent, Static Charge has a 90% block chance on the first time I use it.......Static got nerfed a.lot too. Shadow Arts is useless,and Energy Grenade hits waaaaaaay too low.



DestruRaGe -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 7:25:52)

I agree with TurkishIncubus.



Wind -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 8:59:38)

Hey Rui..

Well honestly I do admit that at the start CH was pretty underpowered, when it was first released. I remember this because when I tried using it for 2 weeks, I died 200 times only winning 1000 wins which wasn't that great and was the reason to why I changed class.
But with the recent "improvement" to the class, by exchanging the technician skill and adding a passive energy-shield skill to it's skill tree in my opinion, has significantly increased it's power to be even with most of the other classes. Many players think because of the new skill that it's OP, while in my opinion it's just a bit tanker but still possible to kill (as I have done with my Bounty Hunter! builds).

Overall I think the classes are pretty even at the moment, due to a few of changes which were just recently made in Delta 1.4.1c.
But also because these changes were made just over a week ago, the chances of the developers changing anything to the Cyber Hunter class is very unlikely since they have to see how it goes, whether the class should gain a small buff or nerf. Also as the Balance team has a hard time balancing the classes to suit most of the ED Community, they also recently added something called the "Balance Tracker" which will hopefully help the Balance Team, by giving it knowledge on which class is dominating the most, that way it'll be easier to make a few adjustments to things.

I think we should just wait a little while longer for the Balance Tracker to collect more information, as everyone in EpicDuel has their own opinions saying whether CH is overpowered or underpowered. But when the results come out then we'll know the truth.

As for your solutions...

quote:

1. Plasma grenage to be made as good as a plasma bolt ?
2. Shadow arts to improve crit and block rather than stun cuz we never use the stun grenade.
3. Static to be used as a skill that converts 10 health to 30 energy at level 10, so it does not miss. and frenzy like wise 10 energy to 30 health with a 3 turn cooldown.
4. super charge gives back health, surgical gives back health, massacare for a bounty(bloodlust) gives back health. i guess copy pasting skills from old classes is not good for the new classes. massacare for cybers needs to be changed to imba(more/additional) damage or change it so it gives back a little health.
5. Give cybers a physal damage skill. every class has a phy and energy skill .. what do cybers have??


With 1. I do agree with you, since the hunters don't really have a strong base/ unblockable skill. Even though it has cheap shot, the skill can still be blocked.
With 2. I'm pretty sure SA used to increase the chance of critting you opponent, but I believe that it was a bit OP and was changed by the Balance Team.
With 3. Static charge is already pretty strong at level 10 with malfunction, 1 hit can replenish your EMP. So imagine if you hit 30 you automatically will have full energy again. So I think some adjustments may be moved there, except for the 3 round cool down which I think is pretty reasonable. But whatever changes are made, Static Charge and Frenzy should be equal skills.
With 4. I totally agree with you that CH's don't get anything back from using their special skill. Maybe have Blood Massacre for CH's only for them to regain some HP? either way I think it's a good idea.
With 5. I don't know about this, because mostly all of the CH's skills require a primary, and depending on the primary attack type is how you look at it. If you have a physical primary and used Malf, Static Charge, Massacre, Poison you have plenty of physical attacks. Then your energy attacks such as Plasma Grenade and Multi-shot.


I think most of your ideas a pretty fair and reasonable, but really there's nothing we can really do at this current time but wait for the Balance tracker to pick up more information. As I said before the changes to some classes were only recently made just over a week ago, so we shouldn't except any changes happening very soon.
Although even though, you say this is a "open discussion", I do very highly suggest that you post your CH request's in the =ED= Balance Discussion Thread, as that would be the best place to post it, and your request will most likely be viewed, taken in and commented other advanced EpicDuel player's.

Overall there were some pretty good ideas!
Hope my comment's on your 5 propositions was helpful [;)]



Sparticus -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 9:37:48)

Add a PHY AUX or sidearm, go focus +4 and use a Gamma BOT or Yeti BOT to solve the PHY problem if you think its important, my CH is all Energy and has no trouble winning against most players(at level 33).

I would love to see massacre give back HP but only if they end up nerfing static charge. As it stands now its very balanced. Energy regain and modest Field Medic trump skill points in Bloodlust or waiting for massacre.

I agree with Wind on most every point otherwise. You are accustom to using TM builds so CH/BH thought processes for success may be difficult to learn. Take some time to learn how to use your skills and I think you will do better without getting any changes to CH.



ngshuyi94 -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 9:38:57)

Some people think that its fine, some think that its OPed, some think that its UPed. I'm free to point out my views.

Most of the very good players they use Cyber Hunter in a way that most have either a very low if not, no SA. They will add Static at least til lv 7 and then Plasma Armor to Max or somewhere in the region.

They got malf, DM, Massacre on high lv which can be done continuously if u keep getting energy from static.

At the same time, they might not have enough skill points to add high lvs to these skills but a good balance can be strike.

Tho the creativity of this class isnt all that good but it allows u to think alot when using it because theres skills that improve with all of the attributes.

Also to point out my previous post is not useless. What i said that CH are okay is true. It is indeed quite balanced but maybe, abit more to the OPed side in my view. It may be changed a bit but like i said change things for those other classes that need it more first.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 11:43:09)

That's weird. You said you had 55 dex with max shadow arts. And had no blocks. I have about 90 dex with max shadow arts and I block all the time. You should try to balance the class. I'm a balanced Cyber Hunter and my win rate is at an all time high because I can fix myself to any situation.

Don't try to be OP.


Try to be a balanced character.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 12:20:31)

Then you don't know how to use it. CH is OPed. I don't get how you can find it UPed. High STR/DEX builds are Super OPed and nearly invincible. Static Charge allows you to keep your base energy supply and have infinite health because every 2 turns is full energy regain. In order for it to not be blocked is get really high dex AND SA. Then you're fine. And if it doesn't work for you then your just unlucky or something. But CH is OPed.



Stabilis -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 12:21:17)

Stand back! I am one of the older cyber hunters of this community, and I'm NOT proud of it, but please excuse a little info from an experienced expert of the faction "Ex" (Exile). The original poster of this thread is fairly correct about static charge, it is broken. Static charge only becomes useful after 2 conditions are met: the power and connectivity of the strike must be sure to guarantee (practically) a good amount of energy consumption for the player. For these conditions to take place, strength and dexterity are often a necessity... when they shouldn't be. Sure, someone could use a weak static charge that almost always hits, but if you ask me, I would argue that a larger amount of energy consumed per strike is much more safe than measly amounts of energy over longer periods of time where skills, detrimental to survival would be needed to prolong life.

This most often means that players of the cyber hunter breed are forced to rely on the deadbeat old ways of smashing by strength and dexterity exertion. This is an issue for every cyber hunter who tries for ways around this... there are no other ways (energy booster exception). I propose that static charge should be fixed.

Options:

i) Remove striking as the mechanism as to how energy is acquired, blocking can be decisive in battle because many cyber hunters seek help from dexterity (or change the skill from an active to a passive). Change energy consumption to only rely on weapon damage, NOT including strength. Allow static charge to consume energy without failure. Or, quite possibly forget static charge as an attack, and change it to a non-aggressive boost.

ii) Replace the skill.[:(]

iii) Do nothing.[:@]



Zeoth -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 12:26:51)

@above
static charge is already being thrown around for a revamp, so there really is no point to it.



Stabilis -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 12:28:38)

No point to what?



Remorse -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 12:37:37)

There certainly is a point Zeoth and I support you greenrain.

Time has shown that single voices alone makes little to no changes on the game,

But when everyone speaks up about the same issue on the forums that is when it is heard and when it has the most likely chance of something happening.

The more people who speak up about issues the better, even if it starts to become repetitive.
The devs have proven they are willing to listen so together we need to give them thngs to listen to!



Zeoth -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 12:45:21)

I just see the point in talking about something that is due to be changed soon enough.



marleytime -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 12:52:49)

Ha!

So wrong! Cyber is perfect the way it is. If you think you need high Str to win, you're wrong. If you think you need Massacre to win, you're wrong.

The only thing correct is that you do need high dex.

Heck, I even made a build that had an 85% win rate with Static Charge at level 1.

Also, Shadow Arts does not help you from getting blocked. It helps you to block.



Remorse -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 12:57:29)

^ no classes should be limited to a certain type of build to be sucsesful, like greenrain said we are almost pratically forced to have high dex and or str.

If cyber get a change it should be to increase variety within the class but Your right in the fact that they dont need any more power or improvemnt its its current sucseful builds.

Blood mages also need to be injected with more vairty they seemed to be very limited as well as BHs.

Im not saying they arnt sucseful they certainly are and those parts shouldnt change if not decreased they should however all have an improvment in variety.



marleytime -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 13:33:03)

I'm with ya on the variety thing. Tech builds are impossible/pointless, and Support builds are only successful with the right gear and know-how.




Mecha Mario -> RE: Ok so i changed to cyber.. (1/19/2012 15:36:04)

Locking up this thread, since this is indeed related to balance. Please keep all balance related topics in the official balance thread here instead.




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